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Ness757
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Posted: Sat Oct 31st, 2009 03:00 pm |
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Stef wrote: Ness.
I'm impressed.
But not surprised.
Impressed because not everyone would have the courage to share what you did in this thread, given your history in this Forum.
Not surprised because I have sensed deep integrity in you, from way back. No matter how different our views might have been (or might still be), I always respected your genuinity (not English, but am sure you know what I mean).
All journeys differ. But one thing is "constant". In order to journey one needs to have the capacity, depth and honesty needed to allow some room for self-query. In order to query one often needs some degree of humility/maturity needed to leave some windows or doors open to the possibility that we may "not know everything".
Clearly I've no idea where your journey will lead you, nor how long will you be willing to journey. One thing I do know. Because I've been there. Once you start the journey, be ready for surprises.
But then .... something tells me this is not the first journey in your life ... so I don't think I'm saying anything you don't already know.
In any event. Just wanted to say how much I appreciated this thread and how deeply do I wish you peace of mind and heart.
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Radical Maverick
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Posted: Sat Oct 31st, 2009 05:56 pm |
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| Then what kind of atheist were you to begin with? you decide only 1 kind of god doesn't exist then reshape your understanding and labelling of a god to the point where it suits you best? that's more agnostic than anything. Last edited on Sat Oct 31st, 2009 05:56 pm by Radical Maverick
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Ness757
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Posted: Sat Oct 31st, 2009 06:16 pm |
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Radical Maverick wrote: Then what kind of atheist were you to begin with? you decide only 1 kind of god doesn't exist then reshape your understanding and labelling of a god to the point where it suits you best? that's more agnostic than anything.
Why is having every school of thought cookie-cut into certain shapes so important to you?
By the way, I've stated my former position several times in the past. "I don't whether or not there are any deities, however I choose not to believe in a deity." That was how I used to look at it and that made me an atheist.
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holywham
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Posted: Sat Oct 31st, 2009 06:22 pm |
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Ness757 wrote: I haven't been here in awhile because I was undergoing some major changes in my life. I graduated from college, became depressed for a bit, moved to California to start my new life, and now that I'm settled here it is time to put some of the new things I believe to the test (which is why I come here).
But enough about that, I know that's not why you are all here. You're here because you saw the title and thought, "WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED TO NESS TO MAKE HIM NO LONGER AN ATHEIST?"
Well I'm here to answer that as best I can.
It all started with a sore back. To make a long story short, my lower back was hurting so I went to see a masseuse. She was a very spiritual woman and talking to her recharged some of my spiritual gifts. That got me thinking.
Then I started thinking more and more about my luck and how I'm incredibly lucky. Combined with the talks I had with my masseuse, I realized that there had to be something greater powering me.
And that's why I am no longer an atheist. I believe there is a deity or "higher force" that I am subconsciously tapping into. Basically, I don't see god as a ruler to be worshiped, but a battery to power our gifts and our dreams. In short, I don't worship god, I use him.
"I don't worship god,I use him". Thats about the blindest spiritual comment I ever heard!How long do you think the living God will let himself be used?
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Radical Maverick
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Posted: Sat Oct 31st, 2009 06:37 pm |
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Ness757 wrote: Radical Maverick wrote: Then what kind of atheist were you to begin with? you decide only 1 kind of god doesn't exist then reshape your understanding and labelling of a god to the point where it suits you best? that's more agnostic than anything.
Why is having every school of thought cookie-cut into certain shapes so important to you?
By the way, I've stated my former position several times in the past. "I don't whether or not there are any deities, however I choose not to believe in a deity." That was how I used to look at it and that made me an atheist.
cookie cut into certain shapes? um, yeah I don't think so. try adhering to their actual definitions instead of being twisted around by people that can't cope with anything outside those definitions and actually being held accountable. I find the actual accountability people have important. little else.
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BigE
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Posted: Sat Oct 31st, 2009 07:32 pm |
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holywham wrote: Ness757 wrote: I haven't been here in awhile because I was undergoing some major changes in my life. I graduated from college, became depressed for a bit, moved to California to start my new life, and now that I'm settled here it is time to put some of the new things I believe to the test (which is why I come here).
But enough about that, I know that's not why you are all here. You're here because you saw the title and thought, "WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED TO NESS TO MAKE HIM NO LONGER AN ATHEIST?"
Well I'm here to answer that as best I can.
It all started with a sore back. To make a long story short, my lower back was hurting so I went to see a masseuse. She was a very spiritual woman and talking to her recharged some of my spiritual gifts. That got me thinking.
Then I started thinking more and more about my luck and how I'm incredibly lucky. Combined with the talks I had with my masseuse, I realized that there had to be something greater powering me.
And that's why I am no longer an atheist. I believe there is a deity or "higher force" that I am subconsciously tapping into. Basically, I don't see god as a ruler to be worshiped, but a battery to power our gifts and our dreams. In short, I don't worship god, I use him.
"I don't worship god,I use him". Thats about the blindest spiritual comment I ever heard!How long do you think the living God will let himself be used?
Cut the guy a break will ya......
I think God will let us use Him as long as we need Him.
Many of us believe our gifts are fueled by grace of the Holy Spirit.
Just because Ness uses a spiritual language a little different from ours is no reason to deny his journey.
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Skeptic1
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Posted: Sat Oct 31st, 2009 08:52 pm |
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Ness,
Did you miss the questions in my post on page 3 ?
Last edited on Sat Oct 31st, 2009 08:52 pm by Skeptic1
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Ness757
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Posted: Sun Nov 1st, 2009 02:01 am |
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Skeptic1 wrote: Ness,
Did you miss the questions in my post on page 3 ?
Yes I did. I will address them now.
Ness, I was very busy and didn't have time to comment. I'm still busy, but may be able to get back here later.
Some questions about your first post:
1) What sort of "spiritual gifts" were 'recharged'?
2) Why is the "something greater powering you" not human nature and laws of nature?
3) When you say 'higher power", I'm sure you don't mean "vertically upward" and "rate of doing work". So what do you mean by "higher power". Also "deity" is a vague "wild card term". God is usually the term used for the "Creator the the universe".
I fail to see any connection between your "spiritual powers", "lower back pain" or "realizing something greater powering you" and the origin or cause of the universe. Can you explain any connections?
3) When you say you "use god", are you implying that you realize it is a psychological tool rather than an existing objective entity?
Thanks for your replies. I hope to find time to return soon.
1. Weak precognition and feeling energy.
2. Because the laws of nature don't naturally rule in someone's favor so often.
3. What do I mean? I mean force with greater powers than I.
They are merely sequence of events. The lower back pain caused me to see a masseuse. The masseuse was spiritually inclined and she opened up some of my chakras that been blocked. The reopening allowed me to get my powers back. Getting my powers back allowed me to comtemplate other events in my life, which led to the conclusion this thread is about.
4. When I say I use god, I mean I am tapping into his energy to increase my own power. Thre is no worship involved.
@holywham
Who knows? Let's find out. 
@Radical Maverick
Is that what they are calling it these days? I don't know how it is with your generation, but when I was your age, holding to one person's narrow interpretation of a very ambiguous term was not called "accountability."
Requiring rigid definitions of ideals in order to understand them is a weakness, not a strength.
Last edited on Sun Nov 1st, 2009 02:02 am by Ness757
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Skeptic1
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Posted: Sun Nov 1st, 2009 02:33 am |
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Ness757 wrote:
Skeptic asked
1) What sort of "spiritual gifts" were 'recharged'?
2) Why is the "something greater powering you" not human nature and laws of nature?
3) When you say 'higher power", I'm sure you don't mean "vertically upward" and "rate of doing work". So what do you mean by "higher power". Also "deity" is a vague "wild card term". God is usually the term used for the "Creator the the universe".
I fail to see any connection between your "spiritual powers", "lower back pain" or "realizing something greater powering you" and the origin or cause of the universe. Can you explain any connections?
3) When you say you "use god", are you implying that you realize it is a psychological tool rather than an existing objective entity?
Thanks for your replies. I hope to find time to return soon.
1. Weak precognition and feeling energy.
2. Because the laws of nature don't naturally rule in someone's favor so often.
3. What do I mean? I mean force with greater powers than I.
They are merely sequence of events. The lower back pain caused me to see a masseuse. The masseuse was spiritually inclined and she opened up some of my chakras that been blocked. The reopening allowed me to get my powers back. Getting my powers back allowed me to comtemplate other events in my life, which led to the conclusion this thread is about.
4. When I say I use god, I mean I am tapping into his energy to increase my own power. Thre is no worship involved.
1. My experience is everybody has "weak precognition". I read somewhere that statistically people remember when they "get it right" and forget the "bad guesses". I don't know what you mean by "feeling energy". At my age it isn't uncommon to not "feel energy".
2. People who prepare, work hard, have good genes and good habits seem to do very well to me. It seems that people who are ill, or lazy or don't have good habits and self discipline tend to self destruct. Are you saying you are unusually lucky?
3. Sorry, but your reply doesn't compute for me. You are speaking in a language foreign to me.
4. If I follow you, the term "god" you are using has nothing to do with the origin of the universe. Is that correct?
Again, it appears to me you are discussing a philosophy that gives you a very positive frame of mind rather than the objective existence of an intelligent entity.
Thanks for trying to explain the answers my questions.
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Repenta
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Posted: Sun Nov 1st, 2009 12:58 pm |
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I know that this is the "mother" in me, but I hope Ness, that you will tap into the power of God to do more than get "hot" women". And certainly if God is giving you any help at all, a little recognition and respect might help. It is Ok to humble yourself a little, especially if you believe that this God is responsible for creating the universe with you in it.
I guess you need to tell us a little more about what your concept of this god is so we can understand you better.
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Ness757
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Posted: Sun Nov 1st, 2009 10:25 pm |
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Skeptic1 wrote: Ness757 wrote:
Skeptic asked
1) What sort of "spiritual gifts" were 'recharged'?
2) Why is the "something greater powering you" not human nature and laws of nature?
3) When you say 'higher power", I'm sure you don't mean "vertically upward" and "rate of doing work". So what do you mean by "higher power". Also "deity" is a vague "wild card term". God is usually the term used for the "Creator the the universe".
I fail to see any connection between your "spiritual powers", "lower back pain" or "realizing something greater powering you" and the origin or cause of the universe. Can you explain any connections?
3) When you say you "use god", are you implying that you realize it is a psychological tool rather than an existing objective entity?
Thanks for your replies. I hope to find time to return soon.
1. Weak precognition and feeling energy.
2. Because the laws of nature don't naturally rule in someone's favor so often.
3. What do I mean? I mean force with greater powers than I.
They are merely sequence of events. The lower back pain caused me to see a masseuse. The masseuse was spiritually inclined and she opened up some of my chakras that been blocked. The reopening allowed me to get my powers back. Getting my powers back allowed me to comtemplate other events in my life, which led to the conclusion this thread is about.
4. When I say I use god, I mean I am tapping into his energy to increase my own power. Thre is no worship involved.
1. My experience is everybody has "weak precognition". I read somewhere that statistically people remember when they "get it right" and forget the "bad guesses". I don't know what you mean by "feeling energy". At my age it isn't uncommon to not "feel energy".
2. People who prepare, work hard, have good genes and good habits seem to do very well to me. It seems that people who are ill, or lazy or don't have good habits and self discipline tend to self destruct. Are you saying you are unusually lucky?
3. Sorry, but your reply doesn't compute for me. You are speaking in a language foreign to me.
4. If I follow you, the term "god" you are using has nothing to do with the origin of the universe. Is that correct?
Again, it appears to me you are discussing a philosophy that gives you a very positive frame of mind rather than the objective existence of an intelligent entity.
Thanks for trying to explain the answers my questions.
1. For me, it's not about numbers, it's about the scenarios. There are situations where normal intuition can allow you to foresee things, but then are events which no amount of intuition can allow you to predict. And those are the events that I consdier important.
2. Yes that is exactly what I am saying.
3 & 4. I could have explained this one better. I do not believe that this higher power is the creator of the universe. For me, a "god" does not have to be a creator or ruler of anything. To me "god" is a word I associate with capability. When I here to term "god," I think of someone powerful enough to many things I cannot. That's what I mean by "higher power," a being with more power than me. Is that clearer?
@Repenta
See 3 & 4
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Radical Maverick
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Posted: Sun Nov 1st, 2009 11:25 pm |
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| btw, you telling me what is a strength and what is a weakness is rigid in its own right. get over yourself, your word twisting hypocricies and leave 'my generation' out of it. thanks. I don't need to reinvent things to feel better about myself. but hey, if that makes you'feel better' then by all means go ahead.
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Ness757
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Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 02:42 am |
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Radical Maverick wrote: btw, you telling me what is a strength and what is a weakness is rigid in its own right. get over yourself, your word twisting hypocricies and leave 'my generation' out of it. thanks. I don't need to reinvent things to feel better about myself. but hey, if that makes you'feel better' then by all means go ahead.
Look up "atheism" in the dictionary. The only requirement for "atheism" is choosing not to believe in God. Everything else if left up to the individual. That's why Buddhism can be considered a form of atheism. In fact, you trying to add stuff to this definition and then coming down on me for not following it could be considered reinventing "things to feel better about [yourself]."
And you accused me of hypocrisy.
How cute.
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Jesus Lover
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Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 06:20 am |
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| Glad to see you back on perspectives Ness, and happy to see you shared the news with everyone else as well
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Skeptic1
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Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 12:57 pm |
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Ness757 wrote: Skeptic1 wrote: Ness757 wrote:
Skeptic asked
1) What sort of "spiritual gifts" were 'recharged'?
2) Why is the "something greater powering you" not human nature and laws of nature?
3) When you say 'higher power", I'm sure you don't mean "vertically upward" and "rate of doing work". So what do you mean by "higher power". Also "deity" is a vague "wild card term". God is usually the term used for the "Creator the the universe".
I fail to see any connection between your "spiritual powers", "lower back pain" or "realizing something greater powering you" and the origin or cause of the universe. Can you explain any connections?
3) When you say you "use god", are you implying that you realize it is a psychological tool rather than an existing objective entity?
Thanks for your replies. I hope to find time to return soon.
1. Weak precognition and feeling energy.
2. Because the laws of nature don't naturally rule in someone's favor so often.
3. What do I mean? I mean force with greater powers than I.
They are merely sequence of events. The lower back pain caused me to see a masseuse. The masseuse was spiritually inclined and she opened up some of my chakras that been blocked. The reopening allowed me to get my powers back. Getting my powers back allowed me to comtemplate other events in my life, which led to the conclusion this thread is about.
4. When I say I use god, I mean I am tapping into his energy to increase my own power. Thre is no worship involved.
1. My experience is everybody has "weak precognition". I read somewhere that statistically people remember when they "get it right" and forget the "bad guesses". I don't know what you mean by "feeling energy". At my age it isn't uncommon to not "feel energy".
2. People who prepare, work hard, have good genes and good habits seem to do very well to me. It seems that people who are ill, or lazy or don't have good habits and self discipline tend to self destruct. Are you saying you are unusually lucky?
3. Sorry, but your reply doesn't compute for me. You are speaking in a language foreign to me.
4. If I follow you, the term "god" you are using has nothing to do with the origin of the universe. Is that correct?
Again, it appears to me you are discussing a philosophy that gives you a very positive frame of mind rather than the objective existence of an intelligent entity.
Thanks for trying to explain the answers my questions.
1. For me, it's not about numbers, it's about the scenarios. There are situations where normal intuition can allow you to foresee things, but then are events which no amount of intuition can allow you to predict. And those are the events that I consdier important.
2. Yes that is exactly what I am saying.
3 & 4. I could have explained this one better. I do not believe that this higher power is the creator of the universe. For me, a "god" does not have to be a creator or ruler of anything. To me "god" is a word I associate with capability. When I here to term "god," I think of someone powerful enough to many things I cannot. That's what I mean by "higher power," a being with more power than me. Is that clearer?
1. It's hard to respond without knowing the specifics. I was just suggesting keeping records to make sure you weren't misinterpreting the data. Now you seem to be relying on your "impressions" of certain scenarios. Remember early man was "impressed" by thunderstorms and invented Thor.
2) I don't understand your response. I was trying to show the cause of success is just the natural elements of preparation, health, hard work, etc. You agreed. So why is the "something greater powering you" not human nature and laws of nature?
Are you saying you need to believe in something "beyond nature" in order to motivate yourself? I could understand that, but I wouldn't then claim that motivational tool is reality.
3) & 4) Okay, your term "god" is not the term "God" which is the Creator of the Universe.
My confusion is that I use the term atheist for those who "do not believe in the existence of God, the Creator of the Universe".
IMO, there are many entities more powerful than me. What properties does your 'higher power' have? Does it have to be an "existing entity" or can it just be a motivating concept?
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Ness757
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 02:32 am |
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Skeptic1 wrote:
1. It's hard to respond without knowing the specifics. I was just suggesting keeping records to make sure you weren't misinterpreting the data. Now you seem to be relying on your "impressions" of certain scenarios. Remember early man was "impressed" by thunderstorms and invented Thor.
2) I don't understand your response. I was trying to show the cause of success is just the natural elements of preparation, health, hard work, etc. You agreed. So why is the "something greater powering you" not human nature and laws of nature?
Are you saying you need to believe in something "beyond nature" in order to motivate yourself? I could understand that, but I wouldn't then claim that motivational tool is reality.
3) & 4) Okay, your term "god" is not the term "God" which is the Creator of the Universe.
My confusion is that I use the term atheist for those who "do not believe in the existence of God, the Creator of the Universe".
IMO, there are many entities more powerful than me. What properties does your 'higher power' have? Does it have to be an "existing entity" or can it just be a motivating concept?
1. That's an equivocation fallacy, which is uncommon for you so I'll assume you were joking.  I will keep records, though.
2. You asked if I thought I was unnaturally lucky. I said yes. I also agreed with the other stuff you said, but my luck has nothing to do with the decisions I've made. No, I do not see it as motivation. You can't make luck, which is why it is luck.
3 & 4. Following that logic, people who worship the Greek gods would be atheists. Look up atheism. The definition says nothing about the properties of the gods they do not believe in.
It has to be an existing entity because luck cannot be made. I believe that luck is a natural part of the universe, but some of us are lucky beyond what most would consider normal. "Blessed" so to speak.
Remember when I used to talk about Lady Vanessa and the Rave? That's the closest I can come to describing it.
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Danokan
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 02:37 pm |
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Crazy stuff I tell ya.
Ness was an "enemy" of the spiritualists and an "ally" to the agnostics / atheists for quite some time.
Now the tables have turned.
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Skeptic1
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 05:45 pm |
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Ness757 wrote: Skeptic1 wrote:
1. It's hard to respond without knowing the specifics. I was just suggesting keeping records to make sure you weren't misinterpreting the data. Now you seem to be relying on your "impressions" of certain scenarios. Remember early man was "impressed" by thunderstorms and invented Thor.
2) I don't understand your response. I was trying to show the cause of success is just the natural elements of preparation, health, hard work, etc. You agreed. So why is the "something greater powering you" not human nature and laws of nature?
Are you saying you need to believe in something "beyond nature" in order to motivate yourself? I could understand that, but I wouldn't then claim that motivational tool is reality.
3) & 4) Okay, your term "god" is not the term "God" which is the Creator of the Universe.
My confusion is that I use the term atheist for those who "do not believe in the existence of God, the Creator of the Universe".
IMO, there are many entities more powerful than me. What properties does your 'higher power' have? Does it have to be an "existing entity" or can it just be a motivating concept?
1. That's an equivocation fallacy, which is uncommon for you so I'll assume you were joking. I will keep records, though.
2. You asked if I thought I was unnaturally lucky. I said yes. I also agreed with the other stuff you said, but my luck has nothing to do with the decisions I've made. No, I do not see it as motivation. You can't make luck, which is why it is luck.
3 & 4. Following that logic, people who worship the Greek gods would be atheists. Look up atheism. The definition says nothing about the properties of the gods they do not believe in.
It has to be an existing entity because luck cannot be made. I believe that luck is a natural part of the universe, but some of us are lucky beyond what most would consider normal. "Blessed" so to speak.
Remember when I used to talk about Lady Vanessa and the Rave? That's the closest I can come to describing it.
1. I wasn't making the equivocation fallacy because all I did was ask you to keep data and remember what happened in the past. No use making the same mistakes again.
2. Your reasoning concerning "unusual luck" seems to be a fallacy. If you flipped a coin 100 times, you would expect about 50% heads. Just because you flip heads the first 20 times doesn't mean you are "lucky".
Ness, I believe you are in your 20s. IMO you need to wait until you are about 80 to see if you got "70% heads". Then you can claim you were "unusually lucky". Also, your reasoning would mean every lottery winner would have evidence of god.
I'm not sure luck can't be made. professional people say hard work and preparation is what makes success, while others on the outside claim they are lucky.
3&4. I agree. I was just pointing this out because I was confused and thought some others may have also misunderstood.
Yes, I recall the names Lady Vanessa and the Rave, but I forget the content. At my age that's no unusual. 
Last edited on Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 05:50 pm by Skeptic1
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Ness757
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 01:47 am |
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Skeptic1 wrote:
1. I wasn't making the equivocation fallacy because all I did was ask you to keep data and remember what happened in the past. No use making the same mistakes again.
2. Your reasoning concerning "unusual luck" seems to be a fallacy. If you flipped a coin 100 times, you would expect about 50% heads. Just because you flip heads the first 20 times doesn't mean you are "lucky".
Ness, I believe you are in your 20s. IMO you need to wait until you are about 80 to see if you got "70% heads". Then you can claim you were "unusually lucky". Also, your reasoning would mean every lottery winner would have evidence of god.
I'm not sure luck can't be made. professional people say hard work and preparation is what makes success, while others on the outside claim they are lucky.
3&4. I agree. I was just pointing this out because I was confused and thought some others may have also misunderstood.
Yes, I recall the names Lady Vanessa and the Rave, but I forget the content. At my age that's no unusual.
1. Yes you did. You used two different definitions of "impress" as if they meant the same thing to make a point. That is an equivocation fallacy.
2. Not exactly true. The fact that you got the result you wanted all 20 times is luck. The odds of that occurring are not in your favor. The chance of flipping a coin once and getting heads is .5. The chance of flipping a coin 20 times and getting heads all 20 times is .5^20. Quite a huge difference in chance there.
My reasoning is based on a constant and nearly unyielding series of fortunate occurrences, not just a one time thing like winning the lottery.
You are correct, my luck might change in the next 10 years or so, but all I have is the evidence I've been given. And the evidence favors my theory.
Hard work and preparation aren't luck. Others who know nothing of how rich people go to where they are might think those rich people are lucky, but it doesn't matter what they think.
Luck is a fortunate occurrence, which has nothing to do with hard work. It's being at the right place at the right time. Working hard to get rich is not luck. Accidentally falling into a hole that happen to contain an unowned oil reserve (which would make you rich) is luck.
3&4. I'll write up a detailed outline of what I believe later ion another thread.
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Ness757
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 01:48 am |
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Danokan wrote: Crazy stuff I tell ya.
Ness was an "enemy" of the spiritualists and an "ally" to the agnostics / atheists for quite some time.
Now the tables have turned.
haha.
I actually never considered myself to be an "enemy" of anyone. However, that did not stop others from trying to make me the enemy.
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