What are some of the dumber statist arguments you've seen?

[estonianman]

Turbo Timmy Geithner today:

"Oil prices are up because of growth."

Growth in the money supply, surely, but I am just as sure that is not what Timmy meant.

We need to bomb Iran ASAP, they hate us for our freedom,

[estonianman]

I hope all you freedom fighters are having a fantastic spring.

Lets get it rolling with some dumb statist crap - by Opinionated over on the commie board.

Free enterprise didn't build Hoover Dam. It didn't put a man on the moon. It didn't muster the resources necessary to fight WWII and win. It didn't build and design our nuclear arsenal, which contributes significantly to our safety. It didn't organize and fund our army, navy, air force and marine corp. It didn't build the highway system. It didn't even build the railroad system without massive government assistance. It didn't fight the Civil War and triumph. It didn't build the backbone of the internet. It didn't use the army corp of engineers to create a reservoir system or the aqueducts used in many parts of the country to hold and convey water where needed. It doesn't fund nearly as much medical research as is necessary, so the government picks up the slack. Free enterprise doesn't ensure our drugs and food are safe. It doesn't police our roads. And it only wants to guard our prisons if it can make obscene profits at it.

Free enterprise does one thing well, it makes money. If society needs something accomplished that isn't inherently profitable from the get go, free enterprise is no where to be found. And without government to regulate it, free enterprise would lie, cheat and steal in order to make money. It does still, even with all the government regulations in place, if it can find a way to get away with it.

Our society would be complete and total crap without the government working with free enterprise to ensure a relatively safe and secure society.

[calgary libertarian]

I hope all you freedom fighters are having a fantastic spring.

Lets get it rolling with some dumb statist crap - by Opinionated over on the commie board.

Free enterprise didn't build Hoover Dam. It didn't put a man on the moon. It didn't muster the resources necessary to fight WWII and win. It didn't build and design our nuclear arsenal, which contributes significantly to our safety. It didn't organize and fund our army, navy, air force and marine corp. It didn't build the highway system. It didn't even build the railroad system without massive government assistance. It didn't fight the Civil War and triumph. It didn't build the backbone of the internet. It didn't use the army corp of engineers to create a reservoir system or the aqueducts used in many parts of the country to hold and convey water where needed. It doesn't fund nearly as much medical research as is necessary, so the government picks up the slack. Free enterprise doesn't ensure our drugs and food are safe. It doesn't police our roads. And it only wants to guard our prisons if it can make obscene profits at it.

Free enterprise does one thing well, it makes money. If society needs something accomplished that isn't inherently profitable from the get go, free enterprise is no where to be found. And without government to regulate it, free enterprise would lie, cheat and steal in order to make money. It does still, even with all the government regulations in place, if it can find a way to get away with it.

Our society would be complete and total crap without the government working with free enterprise to ensure a relatively safe and secure society.

Opinionated reinforces what governments do well. That is, wage war.

[the general]

Personally I love how this coming election(US) is being portrayed by the MSM as "the most significant since Carter vs. Reagan". "Free market vs intervensionism" is what they are calling it.

WHAT A JOKE.

Though I'm still young, I am not stupid enough not to notice that it's the exact opposite. This election represents exploiting the masses(the similarities between Rs and Ds) as never before.

The race card is all that matters in this election.

[attaburnsinhell]

I see the anarchist circle jerk is still going on

When I said get a grip on yourselves i didn't mean it literally


Libertarians are like 12 year olds who hate their parents because they infringe on their right to drink and do drugs and because they didn't give them enough christmans presents

[dcleve]

I see the anarchist circle jerk is still going on

When I said get a grip on yourselves i didn't mean it literally


Libertarians are like 12 year olds who hate their parents because they infringe on their right to drink and do drugs and because they didn't give them enough christmans presents

The libertarian board is a "supporters only" board. One may not attack libertairians or libertarianism on this board. Non-libertarians may only add constructive comments to a thread Your violating this again will earn you a ban.

dcleve

[the general]

I see the anarchist circle jerk is still going on

When I said get a grip on yourselves i didn't mean it literally


Libertarians are like 12 year olds who hate their parents because they infringe on their right to drink and do drugs and because they didn't give them enough christmans presents

You're an idiot.

Libertarianism is generally based on the belief that the initiation of force is immoral and illegitimate.

[estonianman]

I see the anarchist circle jerk is still going on

When I said get a grip on yourselves i didn't mean it literally


Libertarians are like 12 year olds who hate their parents because they infringe on their right to drink and do drugs and because they didn't give them enough christmans presents

Lol irony.

In the atta's reality fictional stories make great arguments.

[the general]

This may be the dumb statist argument of the year:

Decreased government spending means less jobs, both in private and public sector

obama 100% right again

As if taking money from people and giving them less in return creates more jobs than if it wasn't done.

[estonianman]

This may be the dumb statist argument of the year:

Decreased government spending means less jobs, both in private and public sector

obama 100% right again

As if taking money from people and giving them less in return creates more jobs than if it wasn't done.

[dcleve]

Meanwhile, consider.

1) You're a statist. You claim Obamacare is like building the freeways.
2) You're a statist. You claim Philly wants to return to the dreaded 1950's yet you repeatedly long for the days of "progressive" Teddy Roosevelt (even farther back than the 50's).
3) You're a statist. You claim to be personally against abortion while referring to it as a simple medical procedure between a woman and her doctor.
4) You're a statist. You claim to be personally against abortion yet do nothing except champion its continuance with scripted scenarios.
5) You're a statist. You claim to endorse respect for all faiths but refer to Christ as a "short curly haired Jew" and then feign innocence when challenged.
6) You're a statist. You claim to support a free economy but also state that capitalism leads to "strip mining" of the environment (i.e.--Mother Earth, your curly haired Jew).
7) You're a statist. You claim you fear an attack by some dopey redneck more than Islamic zealots who slaughtered over 3,000 Americans in a single morning.
8) You're a statist. You claim to support private property but also praise the federal land-grabbing of Teddy Roosevelt.
9) You're a statist. You claim that the only way to end racism is by the point of the federal government's gun.

The list goes on and on and one fact is abundantly clear. You're a statist. You believe in the state more than in individuals. You believe in an ever expanding role in the federal government. You believe in its ability to control/modify our behavior to suit your agenda, both in public and private.

Wow. I have rarely seen a more confused poster here over what the meaning of "statist" is. By the numbers:

1, The objection to free speech (no poster can make any positive comparisons to obamacare) makes IU the statist.
2, speaking positivley about the past is not statism. And since the US state was weaker in the 1910s than the 1950s, the critqued behavior is definitley NOT statist.
3,4, Statists want to ban abortions, IU is the statist.
5, IU is the statist with his desire to again constrian the speech of posters (no poster may say anything other than reverently respectful of Jesus)
6) Asserting reality is not statism (free markets for resource extraction DO often lead to strip mining).
7) Being afraid of a threat is not statism. Putting contraints on others out of that fear IS statism, and IU almost certainy wants to do so for muslims -- again making him the statist.
8, 9) FINALLY, IU managed to come up with two correct uses of the term!

2 correct out of 9 examples -- Internet Unknown would fail a functional literacy test if it included the term "statist".

[tsalagi1]

As for #9, Jim Crow existed from the end of the Civil War in 1865, and was never demolished until passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, so yes...in this instance, the institionalized racism existing in the South since the Civil War had to be ended at the point of the gun, in this case, legislation.

I'd like to know how much longer we minorities should have had to wait for Jim Crow to end if not by legislation?

[dcleve]

As for #9, Jim Crow existed from the end of the Civil War in 1865, and was never demolished until passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, so yes...in this instance, the institionalized racism existing in the South since the Civil War had to be ended at the point of the gun, in this case, legislation.

I'd like to know how much longer we minorities should have had to wait for Jim Crow to end if not by legislation?

I suspect my answer agrees with yours, and both don't really belong on this board.

[estonianman]

As for #9, Jim Crow existed from the end of the Civil War in 1865, and was never demolished until passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, so yes...in this instance, the institionalized racism existing in the South since the Civil War had to be ended at the point of the gun, in this case, legislation.

I'd like to know how much longer we minorities should have had to wait for Jim Crow to end if not by legislation?

I suspect my answer agrees with yours, and both don't really belong on this board.

Because they call for government violence to solve an issue caused by government sanctioned violent activities?

So is this another statist circular arguement presented by neocon Dcleve? How do libertarians solve problems created by government?

Slavery was on its way out due to market forces and technologica innovation in the agricultue sector, but the peaceful persuasion means you wouldn't be able to fap to 600k plus dead.

But wait!! the war on native Americans inhabiting the west happened shortly after that, by compassionate union soldiers.

Nevermind, you still get to fap to that.

[branh0913]

I've debated socialist who did not believe the USSR and Nazi's were real socialist despite using the government to control the means of production as true socialist countries. By their definition, socialism is only when the state control the means of production "for the greater good'. It seem marxist are even lazier than marxist were in my marxist days. They don't even know the definition of the word, but think a true capitalist like myself is against it because I don't know the definition. And even in academic circles a socialist still will make arguments personal attacks. I guess that's a clear characteristic of that world view

[tsalagi1]

As for #9, Jim Crow existed from the end of the Civil War in 1865, and was never demolished until passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, so yes...in this instance, the institionalized racism existing in the South since the Civil War had to be ended at the point of the gun, in this case, legislation.

I'd like to know how much longer we minorities should have had to wait for Jim Crow to end if not by legislation?

I suspect my answer agrees with yours, and both don't really belong on this board.

Because they call for government violence to solve an issue caused by government sanctioned violent activities?

So is this another statist circular arguement presented by neocon Dcleve? How do libertarians solve problems created by government?

Slavery was on its way out due to market forces and technologica innovation in the agricultue sector, but the peaceful persuasion means you wouldn't be able to fap to 600k plus dead.

But wait!! the war on native Americans inhabiting the west happened shortly after that, by compassionate union soldiers.

Nevermind, you still get to fap to that.

Really.way out huh...so how much longer should blacks have had to wait from being viewed as cattle? 10 years..50 years...then of course that doesn't respond to the century of Jim Crow that occured after the war ended....just how much longer should minorities have to wait for equal rights?

[estonianman]

As for #9, Jim Crow existed from the end of the Civil War in 1865, and was never demolished until passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, so yes...in this instance, the institionalized racism existing in the South since the Civil War had to be ended at the point of the gun, in this case, legislation.

I'd like to know how much longer we minorities should have had to wait for Jim Crow to end if not by legislation?

I suspect my answer agrees with yours, and both don't really belong on this board.

Because they call for government violence to solve an issue caused by government sanctioned violent activities?

So is this another statist circular arguement presented by neocon Dcleve? How do libertarians solve problems created by government?

Slavery was on its way out due to market forces and technologica innovation in the agricultue sector, but the peaceful persuasion means you wouldn't be able to fap to 600k plus dead.

But wait!! the war on native Americans inhabiting the west happened shortly after that, by compassionate union soldiers.

Nevermind, you still get to fap to that.

Really.way out huh...so how much longer should blacks have had to wait from being viewed as cattle? 10 years..50 years...then of course that doesn't respond to the century of Jim Crow that occured after the war ended....just how much longer should minorities have to wait for equal rights?

Because we are all still viewed as cattle in 2012, by government.

[calgary libertarian]

I can't wait for Spielberg's Lincoln movie.

[dcleve]

As for #9, Jim Crow existed from the end of the Civil War in 1865, and was never demolished until passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, so yes...in this instance, the institionalized racism existing in the South since the Civil War had to be ended at the point of the gun, in this case, legislation.

I'd like to know how much longer we minorities should have had to wait for Jim Crow to end if not by legislation?

I suspect my answer agrees with yours, and both don't really belong on this board.

Because they call for government violence to solve an issue caused by government sanctioned violent activities?

So is this another statist circular arguement presented by neocon Dcleve? How do libertarians solve problems created by government?

Slavery was on its way out due to market forces and technologica innovation in the agricultue sector, but the peaceful persuasion means you wouldn't be able to fap to 600k plus dead.

But wait!! the war on native Americans inhabiting the west happened shortly after that, by compassionate union soldiers.

Nevermind, you still get to fap to that.

Really.way out huh...so how much longer should blacks have had to wait from being viewed as cattle? 10 years..50 years...then of course that doesn't respond to the century of Jim Crow that occured after the war ended....just how much longer should minorities have to wait for equal rights?

The citation of historical evidence refuting libertarian views in only allowed on this board if it is part of a dispute between two different libertarian views, not as an attack on libertarianism.

[calgary libertarian]

As for #9, Jim Crow existed from the end of the Civil War in 1865, and was never demolished until passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, so yes...in this instance, the institionalized racism existing in the South since the Civil War had to be ended at the point of the gun, in this case, legislation.

I'd like to know how much longer we minorities should have had to wait for Jim Crow to end if not by legislation?

I suspect my answer agrees with yours, and both don't really belong on this board.

Because they call for government violence to solve an issue caused by government sanctioned violent activities?

So is this another statist circular arguement presented by neocon Dcleve? How do libertarians solve problems created by government?

Slavery was on its way out due to market forces and technologica innovation in the agricultue sector, but the peaceful persuasion means you wouldn't be able to fap to 600k plus dead.

But wait!! the war on native Americans inhabiting the west happened shortly after that, by compassionate union soldiers.

Nevermind, you still get to fap to that.

Really.way out huh...so how much longer should blacks have had to wait from being viewed as cattle? 10 years..50 years...then of course that doesn't respond to the century of Jim Crow that occured after the war ended....just how much longer should minorities have to wait for equal rights?

The citation of historical evidence refuting libertarian views in only allowed on this board if it is part of a dispute between two different libertarian views, not as an attack on libertarianism.

I see what you did there.

[estonianman]

As for #9, Jim Crow existed from the end of the Civil War in 1865, and was never demolished until passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, so yes...in this instance, the institionalized racism existing in the South since the Civil War had to be ended at the point of the gun, in this case, legislation.

I'd like to know how much longer we minorities should have had to wait for Jim Crow to end if not by legislation?

I suspect my answer agrees with yours, and both don't really belong on this board.

Because they call for government violence to solve an issue caused by government sanctioned violent activities?

So is this another statist circular arguement presented by neocon Dcleve? How do libertarians solve problems created by government?

Slavery was on its way out due to market forces and technologica innovation in the agricultue sector, but the peaceful persuasion means you wouldn't be able to fap to 600k plus dead.

But wait!! the war on native Americans inhabiting the west happened shortly after that, by compassionate union soldiers.

Nevermind, you still get to fap to that.

Really.way out huh...so how much longer should blacks have had to wait from being viewed as cattle? 10 years..50 years...then of course that doesn't respond to the century of Jim Crow that occured after the war ended....just how much longer should minorities have to wait for equal rights?

Every other country on earth rid their slaves through non-violent means, the estonian slaves revolted themselves.. Government enforced segregation in the US lasted another 100 years in america after a 5 civil year war. Perhaps they needed to free the slaves to have bodies for the western occupational wars - who knows.

Statists have very low standards when it comes measuring success.

[dcleve]

As for #9, Jim Crow existed from the end of the Civil War in 1865, and was never demolished until passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, so yes...in this instance, the institionalized racism existing in the South since the Civil War had to be ended at the point of the gun, in this case, legislation.

I'd like to know how much longer we minorities should have had to wait for Jim Crow to end if not by legislation?

I suspect my answer agrees with yours, and both don't really belong on this board.

Because they call for government violence to solve an issue caused by government sanctioned violent activities?

So is this another statist circular arguement presented by neocon Dcleve? How do libertarians solve problems created by government?

Slavery was on its way out due to market forces and technologica innovation in the agricultue sector, but the peaceful persuasion means you wouldn't be able to fap to 600k plus dead.

But wait!! the war on native Americans inhabiting the west happened shortly after that, by compassionate union soldiers.

Nevermind, you still get to fap to that.

Really.way out huh...so how much longer should blacks have had to wait from being viewed as cattle? 10 years..50 years...then of course that doesn't respond to the century of Jim Crow that occured after the war ended....just how much longer should minorities have to wait for equal rights?

The citation of historical evidence refuting libertarian views in only allowed on this board if it is part of a dispute between two different libertarian views, not as an attack on libertarianism.

I see what you did there.

I am trying to clarify to Tsal1 the limits of what he can post here. He and I are occasional supporters of libertarian POVs, and can post our supportive thoughts, hence my post to this thread ridiculing a Con's invalid use of libertarian language.

Estonian has the right to cite all the historical data he wants on this board to support libertarianism. Tsalagi and I do not have the right to cite any counter-evidence here, no matter how personal Tsal or I may feel the subject is. That there is evidence on both sides is, I hope agreed -- the validity of the tests, the weight to give them, and appropriate conclusions to draw from it is where we disagree. But this disagreement belongs on another board.

[estonianman]

there you go over-complicating again DC.

[estonianman]

[dcleve]

there you go over-complicating again DC.

Always.