Stop abortion. Overturn Roe v. Wade.

[philly rabbit]

Unthinkable back then because people knew what was their business and what was not?

"God does not regard the fetus as a soul, no matter how far gestation has progressed. The Law plainly exacts: “If a man kills any human life he will be put to death” (Lev. 24:17). But according to Exodus 21:22-24, the destruction of the fetus is not a capital offense. … Clearly, then, in contrast to the mother, the fetus is not reckoned as a soul."

-- Christianity Today, 1979 (Billy Graham’s magazine)

Note that this is 6 years after Roe v. Wade.

"Billy" could never resist having his picture taken with a U.S. president or dignitary.

He was the photo op pinup boy of TV evangelism. These hucksters on TV have done untold harm to our now feminized community churches and they have used a medium to their financial advantage that completely counters everything they're supposed to be preaching about.

[internet.unknown]

Unthinkable back then because people knew what was their business and what was not?

"God does not regard the fetus as a soul, no matter how far gestation has progressed. The Law plainly exacts: “If a man kills any human life he will be put to death” (Lev. 24:17). But according to Exodus 21:22-24, the destruction of the fetus is not a capital offense. … Clearly, then, in contrast to the mother, the fetus is not reckoned as a soul."

-- Christianity Today, 1979 (Billy Graham’s magazine)

Note that this is 6 years after Roe v. Wade.

Who brought up religion? I don't even go to church.

I'm arguing from a Constitutional point. We established the Constitution to protect individual life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Actually, we established the Constitution, because the Articles of Confederation whereby they had strong State's power over a weak Federal Government proved impossible to govern the Republic..and so we adopted the Constitution whereby the States were made subordinate to the Federal Government.

No.

Reread the Declaration.

You do realize the DoI is not our governing document right?

You do realize that "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men."

We have inalienable rights. We formed our government to protect those rights. The DoI is the why. The Constitution is the how.

[tsalagi1]

Unthinkable back then because people knew what was their business and what was not?

"God does not regard the fetus as a soul, no matter how far gestation has progressed. The Law plainly exacts: “If a man kills any human life he will be put to death” (Lev. 24:17). But according to Exodus 21:22-24, the destruction of the fetus is not a capital offense. … Clearly, then, in contrast to the mother, the fetus is not reckoned as a soul."

-- Christianity Today, 1979 (Billy Graham’s magazine)

Note that this is 6 years after Roe v. Wade.

Who brought up religion? I don't even go to church.

I'm arguing from a Constitutional point. We established the Constitution to protect individual life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Actually, we established the Constitution, because the Articles of Confederation whereby they had strong State's power over a weak Federal Government proved impossible to govern the Republic..and so we adopted the Constitution whereby the States were made subordinate to the Federal Government.

No.

Reread the Declaration.

You do realize the DoI is not our governing document right?

You do realize that "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men."

We have inalienable rights. We formed our government to protect those rights. The DoI is the why. The Constitution is the how.

That's almost cute...a Libertarian holding up the concept of Government securing our rights, why that sounds almost statist.

[thoughtless]

Listen IB..Roe vs Wade is set in stone...has been for over 40 years...it's never going away, it's met the litmus test in both liberal and conservative Supreme Courts...we can either deal with it and move on, or continue to waste political clout and pander to the social conservatives of the Party.

And that's why this battle is a waste of time.

Roe v. Wade will never be overturned, and to do so would scrap 40 years of judicial rulings for thousands of lower court cases. Only about 35% of Americans, when asked "Would you like to see the Supreme Court overturn its 1973 Roe versus Wade decision concerning abortion, or not?" answer "Yes".

It doesn't need to be overturned. It was never based on abortion in the first place. The Pro-life people have finally caught on to that and have been hammering away on this heinous practice which we can be grateful for.

In spite of any claims the pro-lifers make, the basic issue of abortion hinges on the view of when life begins, and what constitutes a "life". From a religious point of view, "life" means the fetus has received a "soul", and that soul is a gift from God. The Catholic Church taught that life begins at conception before Roe. Must protestant denominations that teach that now, only started doing so several years after Roe, as the religious right got into politics.

From a scientific point of view, the cell formed at conception is no more or less alive than the sperm and egg were before conception. "Soul" is a mental process that requires a functional brain to recognize, and none of the reproductive process has anything to do with a supernatural being.

Basically, the SC ruled in Roe, that the belief held by many that "life begins at conception", does not have to be forced on those that believe otherwise.

Yeah unfortunately, you're full of crap. This has nothing to do with religion, it's basic biology. It's just unfortunate that abortion played very little in the R Versus W decision but you really don't care about that do you as long as you can keep the fetus farm running at full steam.

You can keep on pretending there is no debate on when life begins, you can pretend that the definition of when life begins has nothing to do with religion, you can pretend that a woman's right to control her own body is irrelevant to the argument, you can pretend that anyone that believes life does not begin at conception can't doesn't see any difference between a day old fetus and a baby 1 second before birth, and you can pretend that the best way to solve this problem is to throw a temper tantrum, and call those trying to have an intelligent debate various names.

But it seems like a waste of time to me.

And you can pretend that you know what the hell you're talking about but it doesn't change reality. You're free to live in whatever deluded fantasy world you choose, just don't expect the rest of us to listen or believe the stupidity you're throwing around here.

In the deluded fantasy world I live in, women have a constitutional right to choose whether or not they want to get an abortion, and abortion is a complicated subject that takes into account the legal rights of women, and the definition of when life begins.

You, however, choose to live in a fantasy world where any argument that can't be explained on a bumper sticker is ignored.

[internet.unknown]

Unthinkable back then because people knew what was their business and what was not?

"God does not regard the fetus as a soul, no matter how far gestation has progressed. The Law plainly exacts: “If a man kills any human life he will be put to death” (Lev. 24:17). But according to Exodus 21:22-24, the destruction of the fetus is not a capital offense. … Clearly, then, in contrast to the mother, the fetus is not reckoned as a soul."

-- Christianity Today, 1979 (Billy Graham’s magazine)

Note that this is 6 years after Roe v. Wade.

Who brought up religion? I don't even go to church.

I'm arguing from a Constitutional point. We established the Constitution to protect individual life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Actually, we established the Constitution, because the Articles of Confederation whereby they had strong State's power over a weak Federal Government proved impossible to govern the Republic..and so we adopted the Constitution whereby the States were made subordinate to the Federal Government.

No.

Reread the Declaration.

You do realize the DoI is not our governing document right?

You do realize that "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men."

We have inalienable rights. We formed our government to protect those rights. The DoI is the why. The Constitution is the how.

That's almost cute...a Libertarian holding up the concept of Government securing our rights, why that sounds almost statist.

Not a Libertarian. You resorting to name calling now? How rhetorical of you.

You should really read the books Liberty and Tyranny and Ameritopia by Mark Levin. I know you won't but you should. You should also read every column by Thomas Sowell.

[ironbob2004]

Listen IB..Roe vs Wade is set in stone...has been for over 40 years...it's never going away, it's met the litmus test in both liberal and conservative Supreme Courts...we can either deal with it and move on, or continue to waste political clout and pander to the social conservatives of the Party.

And that's why this battle is a waste of time.

Roe v. Wade will never be overturned, and to do so would scrap 40 years of judicial rulings for thousands of lower court cases. Only about 35% of Americans, when asked "Would you like to see the Supreme Court overturn its 1973 Roe versus Wade decision concerning abortion, or not?" answer "Yes".

It doesn't need to be overturned. It was never based on abortion in the first place. The Pro-life people have finally caught on to that and have been hammering away on this heinous practice which we can be grateful for.

In spite of any claims the pro-lifers make, the basic issue of abortion hinges on the view of when life begins, and what constitutes a "life". From a religious point of view, "life" means the fetus has received a "soul", and that soul is a gift from God. The Catholic Church taught that life begins at conception before Roe. Must protestant denominations that teach that now, only started doing so several years after Roe, as the religious right got into politics.

From a scientific point of view, the cell formed at conception is no more or less alive than the sperm and egg were before conception. "Soul" is a mental process that requires a functional brain to recognize, and none of the reproductive process has anything to do with a supernatural being.

Basically, the SC ruled in Roe, that the belief held by many that "life begins at conception", does not have to be forced on those that believe otherwise.

Yeah unfortunately, you're full of crap. This has nothing to do with religion, it's basic biology. It's just unfortunate that abortion played very little in the R Versus W decision but you really don't care about that do you as long as you can keep the fetus farm running at full steam.

You can keep on pretending there is no debate on when life begins, you can pretend that the definition of when life begins has nothing to do with religion, you can pretend that a woman's right to control her own body is irrelevant to the argument, you can pretend that anyone that believes life does not begin at conception can't doesn't see any difference between a day old fetus and a baby 1 second before birth, and you can pretend that the best way to solve this problem is to throw a temper tantrum, and call those trying to have an intelligent debate various names.

But it seems like a waste of time to me.

And you can pretend that you know what the hell you're talking about but it doesn't change reality. You're free to live in whatever deluded fantasy world you choose, just don't expect the rest of us to listen or believe the stupidity you're throwing around here.

In the deluded fantasy world I live in, women have a constitutional right to choose whether or not they want to get an abortion, and abortion is a complicated subject that takes into account the legal rights of women, and the definition of when life begins.

You, however, choose to live in a fantasy world where any argument that can't be explained on a bumper sticker is ignored.

They also have the Constitutional right to shut their legs. Maybe if they CHOSE that option they wouldn't have to murder.an unborn.

[thoughtless]

Listen IB..Roe vs Wade is set in stone...has been for over 40 years...it's never going away, it's met the litmus test in both liberal and conservative Supreme Courts...we can either deal with it and move on, or continue to waste political clout and pander to the social conservatives of the Party.

And that's why this battle is a waste of time.

Roe v. Wade will never be overturned, and to do so would scrap 40 years of judicial rulings for thousands of lower court cases. Only about 35% of Americans, when asked "Would you like to see the Supreme Court overturn its 1973 Roe versus Wade decision concerning abortion, or not?" answer "Yes".

It doesn't need to be overturned. It was never based on abortion in the first place. The Pro-life people have finally caught on to that and have been hammering away on this heinous practice which we can be grateful for.

In spite of any claims the pro-lifers make, the basic issue of abortion hinges on the view of when life begins, and what constitutes a "life". From a religious point of view, "life" means the fetus has received a "soul", and that soul is a gift from God. The Catholic Church taught that life begins at conception before Roe. Must protestant denominations that teach that now, only started doing so several years after Roe, as the religious right got into politics.

From a scientific point of view, the cell formed at conception is no more or less alive than the sperm and egg were before conception. "Soul" is a mental process that requires a functional brain to recognize, and none of the reproductive process has anything to do with a supernatural being.

Basically, the SC ruled in Roe, that the belief held by many that "life begins at conception", does not have to be forced on those that believe otherwise.

Yeah unfortunately, you're full of crap. This has nothing to do with religion, it's basic biology. It's just unfortunate that abortion played very little in the R Versus W decision but you really don't care about that do you as long as you can keep the fetus farm running at full steam.

You can keep on pretending there is no debate on when life begins, you can pretend that the definition of when life begins has nothing to do with religion, you can pretend that a woman's right to control her own body is irrelevant to the argument, you can pretend that anyone that believes life does not begin at conception can't doesn't see any difference between a day old fetus and a baby 1 second before birth, and you can pretend that the best way to solve this problem is to throw a temper tantrum, and call those trying to have an intelligent debate various names.

But it seems like a waste of time to me.

And you can pretend that you know what the hell you're talking about but it doesn't change reality. You're free to live in whatever deluded fantasy world you choose, just don't expect the rest of us to listen or believe the stupidity you're throwing around here.

In the deluded fantasy world I live in, women have a constitutional right to choose whether or not they want to get an abortion, and abortion is a complicated subject that takes into account the legal rights of women, and the definition of when life begins.

You, however, choose to live in a fantasy world where any argument that can't be explained on a bumper sticker is ignored.

They also have the Constitutional right to shut their legs. Maybe if they CHOSE that option they wouldn't have to murder.an unborn.

Watch out, if the secret gets out that "small government conservatives" want to regulate the space between a woman's knees, then voters will never start taking you seriously.

[ironbob2004]

Listen IB..Roe vs Wade is set in stone...has been for over 40 years...it's never going away, it's met the litmus test in both liberal and conservative Supreme Courts...we can either deal with it and move on, or continue to waste political clout and pander to the social conservatives of the Party.

And that's why this battle is a waste of time.

Roe v. Wade will never be overturned, and to do so would scrap 40 years of judicial rulings for thousands of lower court cases. Only about 35% of Americans, when asked "Would you like to see the Supreme Court overturn its 1973 Roe versus Wade decision concerning abortion, or not?" answer "Yes".

It doesn't need to be overturned. It was never based on abortion in the first place. The Pro-life people have finally caught on to that and have been hammering away on this heinous practice which we can be grateful for.

In spite of any claims the pro-lifers make, the basic issue of abortion hinges on the view of when life begins, and what constitutes a "life". From a religious point of view, "life" means the fetus has received a "soul", and that soul is a gift from God. The Catholic Church taught that life begins at conception before Roe. Must protestant denominations that teach that now, only started doing so several years after Roe, as the religious right got into politics.

From a scientific point of view, the cell formed at conception is no more or less alive than the sperm and egg were before conception. "Soul" is a mental process that requires a functional brain to recognize, and none of the reproductive process has anything to do with a supernatural being.

Basically, the SC ruled in Roe, that the belief held by many that "life begins at conception", does not have to be forced on those that believe otherwise.

Yeah unfortunately, you're full of crap. This has nothing to do with religion, it's basic biology. It's just unfortunate that abortion played very little in the R Versus W decision but you really don't care about that do you as long as you can keep the fetus farm running at full steam.

You can keep on pretending there is no debate on when life begins, you can pretend that the definition of when life begins has nothing to do with religion, you can pretend that a woman's right to control her own body is irrelevant to the argument, you can pretend that anyone that believes life does not begin at conception can't doesn't see any difference between a day old fetus and a baby 1 second before birth, and you can pretend that the best way to solve this problem is to throw a temper tantrum, and call those trying to have an intelligent debate various names.

But it seems like a waste of time to me.

And you can pretend that you know what the hell you're talking about but it doesn't change reality. You're free to live in whatever deluded fantasy world you choose, just don't expect the rest of us to listen or believe the stupidity you're throwing around here.

In the deluded fantasy world I live in, women have a constitutional right to choose whether or not they want to get an abortion, and abortion is a complicated subject that takes into account the legal rights of women, and the definition of when life begins.

You, however, choose to live in a fantasy world where any argument that can't be explained on a bumper sticker is ignored.

They also have the Constitutional right to shut their legs. Maybe if they CHOSE that option they wouldn't have to murder.an unborn.

Watch out, if the secret gets out that "small government conservatives" want to regulate the space between a woman's knees, then voters will never start taking you seriously.

Doesn't much matter since the American Communist party now regulates our entire bodies through Osamacare.

[thoughtless]

Listen IB..Roe vs Wade is set in stone...has been for over 40 years...it's never going away, it's met the litmus test in both liberal and conservative Supreme Courts...we can either deal with it and move on, or continue to waste political clout and pander to the social conservatives of the Party.

And that's why this battle is a waste of time.

Roe v. Wade will never be overturned, and to do so would scrap 40 years of judicial rulings for thousands of lower court cases. Only about 35% of Americans, when asked "Would you like to see the Supreme Court overturn its 1973 Roe versus Wade decision concerning abortion, or not?" answer "Yes".

It doesn't need to be overturned. It was never based on abortion in the first place. The Pro-life people have finally caught on to that and have been hammering away on this heinous practice which we can be grateful for.

In spite of any claims the pro-lifers make, the basic issue of abortion hinges on the view of when life begins, and what constitutes a "life". From a religious point of view, "life" means the fetus has received a "soul", and that soul is a gift from God. The Catholic Church taught that life begins at conception before Roe. Must protestant denominations that teach that now, only started doing so several years after Roe, as the religious right got into politics.

From a scientific point of view, the cell formed at conception is no more or less alive than the sperm and egg were before conception. "Soul" is a mental process that requires a functional brain to recognize, and none of the reproductive process has anything to do with a supernatural being.

Basically, the SC ruled in Roe, that the belief held by many that "life begins at conception", does not have to be forced on those that believe otherwise.

Yeah unfortunately, you're full of crap. This has nothing to do with religion, it's basic biology. It's just unfortunate that abortion played very little in the R Versus W decision but you really don't care about that do you as long as you can keep the fetus farm running at full steam.

You can keep on pretending there is no debate on when life begins, you can pretend that the definition of when life begins has nothing to do with religion, you can pretend that a woman's right to control her own body is irrelevant to the argument, you can pretend that anyone that believes life does not begin at conception can't doesn't see any difference between a day old fetus and a baby 1 second before birth, and you can pretend that the best way to solve this problem is to throw a temper tantrum, and call those trying to have an intelligent debate various names.

But it seems like a waste of time to me.

And you can pretend that you know what the hell you're talking about but it doesn't change reality. You're free to live in whatever deluded fantasy world you choose, just don't expect the rest of us to listen or believe the stupidity you're throwing around here.

In the deluded fantasy world I live in, women have a constitutional right to choose whether or not they want to get an abortion, and abortion is a complicated subject that takes into account the legal rights of women, and the definition of when life begins.

You, however, choose to live in a fantasy world where any argument that can't be explained on a bumper sticker is ignored.

They also have the Constitutional right to shut their legs. Maybe if they CHOSE that option they wouldn't have to murder.an unborn.

Watch out, if the secret gets out that "small government conservatives" want to regulate the space between a woman's knees, then voters will never start taking you seriously.

Doesn't much matter since the American Communist party now regulates our entire bodies through Osamacare.

Do you think it's worse than when the communist party infiltrated Truman's State Department?

[big_mike]

Can someone point out the section and article of the US Constitution where the federal government was given the enumerated power to prohibit abortion?

[ironbob2004]

Can someone point out the section and article of the US Constitution where the federal government was given the enumerated power to prohibit abortion?

It's right after the Amendment that prohibits murder. OH WAIT, that's not in there either. Your point is moot.

[internet.unknown]

Can someone point out the section and article of the US Constitution where the federal government was given the enumerated power to prohibit abortion?

It's the entire reason for the Constitution. Governments are instituted among men to secure our rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.