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Last Night's Commander in Chief Forum
Topic Started: Sep 8 2016, 06:16 AM (1,265 Views)
Coast2coast

Demagogue
Sep 8 2016, 04:57 PM
Hillary made the declaration that she would defeat ISIS with zero US ground troops.

Not a single one.

1. I do not think that this is possible.
2. I do not think a potential President should make a declaration that takes any military options off the table prior to ever taking office.
I understood the thrust and reasoning of her statement.

It also stood out immediately like a sore thumb and it will haunt her on the day when as President she sends in troops to those locations. (Beyond the ones currently in country).





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Demagogue
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Trump get's asked what in his life experience would qualify him to make decisions as commander and chief.

He talked about his business experience. What he should have said was that since he was never in the military he would lean on his military advisers to give him options and plans and that he would use his judgement to choose the appropriate path.

He could also of course point out that neither Hillary nor Obama served in the military and so they are no better than he in this area.

Also, someone should probably advice Trump and Hillary to read Charlie Wilson's war (or at least watch the movie).
Edited by Demagogue, Sep 8 2016, 05:05 PM.
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm.
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Coast2coast

Demagogue
Sep 8 2016, 05:03 PM
Trump get's asked what in his life experience would qualify him to make decisions as commander and chief.

He talked about his business experience. What he should have said was that since he was never in the military he would lean on his military advisers to give him options and plans and that he would use his judgement to choose the appropriate path.

He could also of course point out that neither Hillary nor Obama served in the military and so they are no better than he in this area.
She's a lot better in that area with a lot of actual experience regardless of serving in uniform or not.

He clearly let us know that he simply is uninformed, unprepared and unqualified.


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Demagogue
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Coast2coast
Sep 8 2016, 05:09 PM
Demagogue
Sep 8 2016, 05:03 PM
Trump get's asked what in his life experience would qualify him to make decisions as commander and chief.

He talked about his business experience. What he should have said was that since he was never in the military he would lean on his military advisers to give him options and plans and that he would use his judgement to choose the appropriate path.

He could also of course point out that neither Hillary nor Obama served in the military and so they are no better than he in this area.
She's a lot better in that area with a lot of actual experience regardless of serving in uniform or not.

He clearly let us know that he simply is uninformed, unprepared and unqualified.


She knows the right words to use about some things because she has been around it. If you were to question her on aspects of business she would sound "uniformed, unprepared, and unqualified" whereas Trump would sound experienced.

The areas of experience is not really a deciding factor for any Presidential candidate so long as you think you can trust them to listen to their advisers once they are President and then make a decision that you as their supporter would make.

Neither Clinton nor Trump would make the decisions that I would make. The difference for me is that I have seen what Clinton would do when in power in government and that concerns me more than what Trump will do if he is elected.
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm.
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Demagogue
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Incidentally, I did not think that either of them did that good a job. I would have liked to see Johnson and maybe even Graffiti girl get some questions.
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm.
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Attaburnsinhell

dcbl
Sep 8 2016, 09:34 AM
1st impression - both sides are pissed, so ML did a decent job

I was SHOCKED to see Hillary actually get confronted; so was she apparently...

I posted this in another thread -

she cannot handle tough questions

we have known this for a while, there is a reason she refuses to do a press conference; what are we, well over 9 months now - right?

Trump has a real shot to win, the debates and even possibly this election

expectations of him will be low, so any kind of decent performance will be a boon for him - Clinton gets rattled pretty easily when she is presented with uncomfortably tough questions & Trump is definitely unpredictable - she hates that. Hillary absolutely prefers scripted questions

on the other side; Trump is not anywhere near as well versed as she is on the details of policy issues. When she is given an opportunity to really dive into a question and expound on her knowledge of an issue, she does very well. Trump? Not so much; he definitely prefers "sound bite" type answers

Trump MUST keep his cool and not allow himself to get rattled. If he can rattle her cage and keep his composure, he likely wins, BUT the debate moderators are likely to be more favorable towards Clinton; I really do not expect them to be fair and impartial (Romney found this out the hard way in his 2nd debate with Obama)

wildcard - rumor has it that there will be leaks the day before or the day of the debates

if Hillary gets presented with uncomfortable questions that she does not have time to prep for, she may be in trouble; hell, she had a hard time handling the email questions tonight. In fact, she actually lied tonight (I used a secure server for all classified emails)

she needs to demonstrate her superior knowledge of the details of policy issues & stay away from the email issue as much as she can, something like "Mistakes were made, but I have been investigated & put through scrutiny with the FBI & DOJ, blah, blah, blah"

TL;DR version - I am very encouraged with what I saw last tonight - Trump SKRONG - Hillary FRICKED
Now for the real world assessment of Trump's performance

Self-proclaimed “genius” reaches new highs in stupidity: Trump puts his incompetence on full display
This week Donald Trump has gone the extra mile to remind America he's clueless, dangerous and inept
HEATHER DIGBY PARTON




In anticipation of last night’s “Commander in Chief” town hall forum on NBC the two presidential candidates this week engaged in a war of words over their respective qualifications. On Tuesday Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton said that Donald Trump was “temperamentally unfit and totally unqualified to be president.” Trump, the Republican presidential nominee, responded on Wednesday morning with a speech in Philadelphia declaring Clinton “trigger happy and very unstable, whether we like it or not.”

The Clinton campaign reacted with yet another ad featuring Trump’s own words this time disparaging veterans and their families. The anti-Trump Priorities USA SuperPAC went even further with a new spot that shows Trump saying, “I love war.” Trump’s campaign manager Kellyanne Conway responded by saying the bizarre comment was taken out of context but the full quote, which he gave last November at a wild Fort Dodge, Iowa, rally (the same one where he called Ben Carson a child molester), is even worse than what it sounds like in the ad:

“I’m good at war. I’ve had a lot of wars of my own. I’m really good at war. I love war in a certain way, but only when we win.”

Trump has never been in the service, although he has said,”I always felt I was in the military” because of his education at a military-themed boarding school and he believes he has “more training militarily than a lot of the guys that go into the military.”

That comment “I’m good at war” says everything about Trump as he demonstrated last night at the town hall forum that he is indeed unfit to be president of the United States. There were many aspects of his performance that had people gasping at the mere idea of this man in a position of real power, not the least of which was his comment that President Barack Obama compares unfavorably to Russian President Vladimir Putin who “has an 85 percent approval rating” and is “very much a leader” because he has “strong control over his country.”

But it was around the question of ISIS and the Middle East where he really showed his true colors. He was upset that Hillary Clinton had earlier claimed that he had lied when he said he had been against the Iraq War and defended himself by pointing to an Esquire magazine article from 2004 — which doesn’t really help since the war began in the spring of 2003. The fact-checkers have declared his pants are on fire numerous times on this but he just keeps saying it.

Everyone seems to think that Trump has “pivoted” from his position that he could not reveal his plan to defeat ISIS to his announcement today that he would give the generals 30 days from the inauguration to come up with one. But that’s wrong. Trump’s secret plan is not so secret. At that same rally last fall, Trump spoke about it plainly:

“I know more about ISIS than the generals do. Believe me. . . . I would bomb the s**t out of ’em. . . . I’d blow up the pipes. I’d blow up the — I’d blow up every single inch. There would be nothing left. And you know what, you get Exxon to come in there and in two months — you ever see these guys how good they are? The great oil companies? They’ll rebuild that sucker brand-new. It’ll be beautiful. And I’d bring it, and I’d take the oil.”

At the forum, he reiterated this belief that America should “take the oil” because he thinks this will make ISIS surrender and has taken to saying “to the victor goes the spoils” apparently unaware that this is a considered a war crime. He has said in the past it would require a permanent force to protect the oil but that it wouldn’t take much.
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dcbl
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Good guys wear white hats
I am talking about their performances from a perception perspective

Not much is expected of Trump, or if anything, he is expected to stumble & screw up

He did not, he exceeded expectations and wound up looking good because of it

He was cool & rational

Hillary came off as angry and flustered

And she damn sure lied about not sending classified emails on an insecure server

Trump won the perception war last night

Sorry if anyone can't see that or admit it; doesn't make it less true
Republicans sign checks on the front, democrats sign them on the back…True story!
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Attaburnsinhell

Quote:
 
Everyone seems to think that Trump has “pivoted” from his position that he could not reveal his plan to defeat ISIS to his announcement today that he would give the generals 30 days from the inauguration to come up with one.
[/i]

Trump thinks he will run war and foreign policy by making Generals contestants on ''The Apprentice'' :oyvey :nana:
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Attaburnsinhell

dcbl
Sep 8 2016, 05:36 PM
I am talking about their performances from a perception perspective

Not much is expected of Trump, or if anything, he is expected to stumble & screw up

He did not, he exceeded expectations and wound up looking good because of it

He was cool & rational

Hillary came off as angry and flustered

And she damn sure lied about not sending classified emails on an insecure server

Trump won the perception war last night

Sorry if anyone can't see that or admit it; doesn't make it less true
Perceptions as to whom? Trump supporters think anything he does is awesome, everyone else thinks he's a lunatic, last night was no different than any other thing he's done
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Attaburnsinhell
Sep 8 2016, 05:40 PM
dcbl
Sep 8 2016, 05:36 PM
I am talking about their performances from a perception perspective

Not much is expected of Trump, or if anything, he is expected to stumble & screw up

He did not, he exceeded expectations and wound up looking good because of it

He was cool & rational

Hillary came off as angry and flustered

And she damn sure lied about not sending classified emails on an insecure server

Trump won the perception war last night

Sorry if anyone can't see that or admit it; doesn't make it less true
Perceptions as to whom? Trump supporters think anything he does is awesome, everyone else thinks he's a lunatic, last night was no different than any other thing he's done
Exactly you just posted some whack jobs opinion from a commie site (no source btw) and expect sane people to swallow it....

Trump kicked azz....Hillary screeched....

watch her screech here....

https://www.hotgas.net/2016/09/hillary-snaps-lauer-fawning-forum/
Only liberals can choose not to go down the road to widespread, systematic violence.
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dcbl
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Good guys wear white hats
Y'all can keep up the circle jerk that "Drumpf is an uninformed and dangerous buffoon"

Or you can face reality

The reality is that he did not screw the pooch last night and to most objective observers; he over performed his expectations

I'm not saying he was brilliant, but he scored points last night

The good news for #NeverHillary types (like me) is that it was a continuation of his better behavior we have seen the last few weeks, he did not come off as a raging lunatic or uninformed - not in he least

The polls have tightened and the betting odds have gone from Trump with a 5% chance to win to him now having a 33% chance on the gambling markets

There's a reason for that; but like I said, y'all believe whatever you want...
Republicans sign checks on the front, democrats sign them on the back…True story!
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Opinionated
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I would like to think that we have a higher standard for Presidents than, "did not come off as a raging lunatic..."
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dcbl
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Opinionated
Sep 8 2016, 06:11 PM
I would like to think that we have a higher standard for Presidents than, "did not come off as a raging lunatic..."
and I would like to think that we had better standards than, "yes she is a pathological liar, but her opponent isn't afraid to speak his mind

So, there's that...
Republicans sign checks on the front, democrats sign them on the back…True story!
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Coast2coast

Demagogue
Sep 8 2016, 05:22 PM
Coast2coast
Sep 8 2016, 05:09 PM
Demagogue
Sep 8 2016, 05:03 PM
Trump get's asked what in his life experience would qualify him to make decisions as commander and chief.

He talked about his business experience. What he should have said was that since he was never in the military he would lean on his military advisers to give him options and plans and that he would use his judgement to choose the appropriate path.

He could also of course point out that neither Hillary nor Obama served in the military and so they are no better than he in this area.
She's a lot better in that area with a lot of actual experience regardless of serving in uniform or not.

He clearly let us know that he simply is uninformed, unprepared and unqualified.


She knows the right words to use about some things because she has been around it. If you were to question her on aspects of business she would sound "uniformed, unprepared, and unqualified" whereas Trump would sound experienced.

The areas of experience is not really a deciding factor for any Presidential candidate so long as you think you can trust them to listen to their advisers once they are President and then make a decision that you as their supporter would make.

Neither Clinton nor Trump would make the decisions that I would make. The difference for me is that I have seen what Clinton would do when in power in government and that concerns me more than what Trump will do if he is elected.
Yes, experience in a field matters as you are noting.

Ms. Clinton is not running to head the Trump Empire and neither is he. If that was the case he's the right person for that job.

Knowledge and experience in highly volatile and complex fields certainly does matter. Briefings and advisors are far less useful to a person that does not have the experience or knowledge to ask the right questions and evaluate the input.

You have watched Mr. Trump now for over a year. We have seen what he does when it comes to (not) listening to his advisors. We have heard him boast about how he knows more than the Generals. We saw him last night lie about his briefings. You actually have a pretty good idea of how he will behave.

I don't know what you do for a living but I know you are amazing with computers. Are you telling me that I could be told a bunch of different approaches and know what is the best choice for a system? What experience would I be basing that on to have evaluated the input, various suggestions and multiple possible outcomes?

I could tell you how to schedule a film. Then I could give you a dozen or more different schedules based on multiple factors across a broad spectrum of requirements. Some good, some fair, some a disaster, some that solve some problems but create others and all of it can be dependent on human or natural interactions and interferences that would require rapid, sometimes very rapid changes which would effect another dozen entities.

No one has the experience of being President of the United States prior to getting the job. But the job requires experience across a broad spectrum along with basic understandings and knowledge that Mr. Trump does not bring.


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Coast2coast

dcbl
Sep 8 2016, 06:13 PM
Opinionated
Sep 8 2016, 06:11 PM
I would like to think that we have a higher standard for Presidents than, "did not come off as a raging lunatic..."
and I would like to think that we had better standards than, "yes she is a pathological liar, but her opponent isn't afraid to speak his mind

So, there's that...
What is your opinion of Mr. Trump's consistency with telling lies?

Perhaps the only place he has been consistent.







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clone
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Coast2coast
Sep 8 2016, 06:58 PM
dcbl
Sep 8 2016, 06:13 PM
Opinionated
Sep 8 2016, 06:11 PM
I would like to think that we have a higher standard for Presidents than, "did not come off as a raging lunatic..."
and I would like to think that we had better standards than, "yes she is a pathological liar, but her opponent isn't afraid to speak his mind

So, there's that...
What is your opinion of Mr. Trump's consistency with telling lies?

Perhaps the only place he has been consistent.







Strawman....and a weak one at that...
Only liberals can choose not to go down the road to widespread, systematic violence.
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Demagogue
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Coast2coast
Sep 8 2016, 06:53 PM
Demagogue
Sep 8 2016, 05:22 PM
Coast2coast
Sep 8 2016, 05:09 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
She knows the right words to use about some things because she has been around it. If you were to question her on aspects of business she would sound "uniformed, unprepared, and unqualified" whereas Trump would sound experienced.

The areas of experience is not really a deciding factor for any Presidential candidate so long as you think you can trust them to listen to their advisers once they are President and then make a decision that you as their supporter would make.

Neither Clinton nor Trump would make the decisions that I would make. The difference for me is that I have seen what Clinton would do when in power in government and that concerns me more than what Trump will do if he is elected.
Yes, experience in a field matters as you are noting.

Ms. Clinton is not running to head the Trump Empire and neither is he. If that was the case he's the right person for that job.

Knowledge and experience in highly volatile and complex fields certainly does matter. Briefings and advisors are far less useful to a person that does not have the experience or knowledge to ask the right questions and evaluate the input.

You have watched Mr. Trump now for over a year. We have seen what he does when it comes to (not) listening to his advisors. We have heard him boast about how he knows more than the Generals. We saw him last night lie about his briefings. You actually have a pretty good idea of how he will behave.

I don't know what you do for a living but I know you are amazing with computers. Are you telling me that I could be told a bunch of different approaches and know what is the best choice for a system? What experience would I be basing that on to have evaluated the input, various suggestions and multiple possible outcomes?

I could tell you how to schedule a film. Then I could give you a dozen or more different schedules based on multiple factors across a broad spectrum of requirements. Some good, some fair, some a disaster, some that solve some problems but create others and all of it can be dependent on human or natural interactions and interferences that would require rapid, sometimes very rapid changes which would effect another dozen entities.

No one has the experience of being President of the United States prior to getting the job. But the job requires experience across a broad spectrum along with basic understandings and knowledge that Mr. Trump does not bring.


Using your example, I could brief a person like Trump on the various positive and negative aspects of different computer architectures for an implementation with the costs and benefits of each architecture to the point that he could (assuming he has reasonable sound judgement) decide between the options given to him to solve whatever problem there was.

I could do the same for Clinton.

Neither Clinton (obviously considering the server debacle) nor Trump would have any real knowledge of the operational aspects of any of the equipment. They would merely understand the basic outline of each.

Military plans given to non-military President's are similar. These people do not actually understand the nuts and bolts of the logistics of these plans nor do they understand anything about the actual equipment being deployed nor the training of the men. They are given a broad outline and several options to choose from.

In fact, when non-military Presidents become a problem is when they start to try to get too far down into the weeds of a military operation. When they start dictating daily targets or refining rules of engagement these types of presidents are a danger to the men and women of our military. Obama has been such a President and I think Clinton would be also. Trump I am not so sure about. He seems to be a person who can appoint someone to a job and the he lets them do the job without much interference.

Control freaks like Hillary are rarely any good at the Commander in Chief aspect of being president.
Edited by Demagogue, Sep 8 2016, 07:06 PM.
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm.
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Coast2coast

clone
Sep 8 2016, 07:01 PM
Coast2coast
Sep 8 2016, 06:58 PM
dcbl
Sep 8 2016, 06:13 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
What is your opinion of Mr. Trump's consistency with telling lies?

Perhaps the only place he has been consistent.







Strawman....and a weak one at that...
It was a question for someone that is not afraid to answer.

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dcbl
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Good guys wear white hats
Trump has not been telling lies

He did not lie about his briefing

That is a non-starter

Clinton, on the other hand, did lie about how she sent classified emails
Republicans sign checks on the front, democrats sign them on the back…True story!
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Coast2coast

Demagogue
Sep 8 2016, 07:04 PM
Coast2coast
Sep 8 2016, 06:53 PM
Demagogue
Sep 8 2016, 05:22 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Yes, experience in a field matters as you are noting.

Ms. Clinton is not running to head the Trump Empire and neither is he. If that was the case he's the right person for that job.

Knowledge and experience in highly volatile and complex fields certainly does matter. Briefings and advisors are far less useful to a person that does not have the experience or knowledge to ask the right questions and evaluate the input.

You have watched Mr. Trump now for over a year. We have seen what he does when it comes to (not) listening to his advisors. We have heard him boast about how he knows more than the Generals. We saw him last night lie about his briefings. You actually have a pretty good idea of how he will behave.

I don't know what you do for a living but I know you are amazing with computers. Are you telling me that I could be told a bunch of different approaches and know what is the best choice for a system? What experience would I be basing that on to have evaluated the input, various suggestions and multiple possible outcomes?

I could tell you how to schedule a film. Then I could give you a dozen or more different schedules based on multiple factors across a broad spectrum of requirements. Some good, some fair, some a disaster, some that solve some problems but create others and all of it can be dependent on human or natural interactions and interferences that would require rapid, sometimes very rapid changes which would effect another dozen entities.

No one has the experience of being President of the United States prior to getting the job. But the job requires experience across a broad spectrum along with basic understandings and knowledge that Mr. Trump does not bring.


Using your example, I could brief a person like Trump on the various positive and negative aspects of different computer architectures for an implementation with the costs and benefits of each architecture to the point that he could (assuming he has reasonable sound judgement) decide between the options given to him to solve whatever problem there was.

I could do the same for Clinton.

Neither Clinton (obviously considering the server debacle) nor Trump would have any real knowledge of the operational aspects of any of the equipment. They would merely understand the basic outline of each.

Military plans given to non-military President's are similar. These people do not actually understand the nuts and bolts of the logistics of these plans nor do they understand anything about the actual equipment being deployed nor the training of the men. They are given a broad outline and several options to choose from.

In fact, when non-military Presidents become a problem is when they start to try to get too far down into the weeds of a military operation. When they start dictating daily targets or refining rules of engagement these types of presidents are a danger to the men and women of our military. Obama has been such a President and I think Clinton would be also. Trump I am not so sure about. He seems to be a person who can appoint someone to a job and the he lets them do the job without much interference.

Control freaks like Hillary are rarely any good at the Commander in Chief aspect of being president.
Unconvinced and disagree.

Take last night. Mr. Trump says that he has a plan to defeat Isis (you know he doesn't, right?) but now his plan is convene Generals (I guess all new Generals) and ask them for a plan to defeat ISIS. Let's ignore the implication that such is not being done by our current Senior Officers, he clearly does not have the experience to understand that such a defeat will not be only waged on a physical battlefield but in areas from State, Region, from the diplomatic to the financial to cyberspace and more than I have the experience to pull up in this reply.

But he doesn't know. He doesn't have the knowledge or experience to understand that thumping his chest around a bunch of Generals is not all there is to being a President that is facing the ideology and physical presence of this world wide terrorist movement.



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