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Artificial Intelligence May Cost US Millions Of Jobs, Increase Inequality, If Social Safety Nets Aren’t Strengthened, White House Report Warns; Maybe time to get that college degree after all, you free marketers
Topic Started: Dec 22 2016, 02:33 AM (2,393 Views)
ringotuna
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Opinionated
Dec 22 2016, 08:36 AM
ringotuna
Dec 22 2016, 06:20 AM
Robert Stout
Dec 22 2016, 02:52 AM
I look forward to replacing politicians with laptops........... :)
More nanny state welfare is the left wing "go to solution"
While more "leave them to the not so tender mercies of the free market" is the right wing "go to solution".

What do you suggest as an alternative to both?
You first. :biggrin:
Ringoism: Never underestimate the advantages of being underestimated.
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Opinionated
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ringotuna
Dec 22 2016, 03:21 PM
Opinionated
Dec 22 2016, 08:36 AM
ringotuna
Dec 22 2016, 06:20 AM
Robert Stout
Dec 22 2016, 02:52 AM
I look forward to replacing politicians with laptops........... :)
More nanny state welfare is the left wing "go to solution"
While more "leave them to the not so tender mercies of the free market" is the right wing "go to solution".

What do you suggest as an alternative to both?
You first. :biggrin:
My suggestion would be something you would almost undoubtedly oppose. I think that in the end what will have to happen is that those with the wealth will have sacrifice a portion of it in order to ensure that those without wealth and with no realistic chance to gain health, aren't left to slowly die of starvation and privation.

Because I personally don't see how we can continue down this road of fewer and fewer people benefiting from the creation of wealth without society eventually reaching a crisis point.

Maybe mine is not the only solution, maybe there are others that are just as good. Assuming, of course, that we agree that doing nothing will lead to serious social/economic problems, which we may not. But if you have an idea, I'd be interested in hearing about it.
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estonianman
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automation brings prices down eliminating the need to work long hours.

Thank you capitalism.
MEEK AND MILD
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ringotuna
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Opinionated
Dec 22 2016, 06:50 PM
ringotuna
Dec 22 2016, 03:21 PM
Opinionated
Dec 22 2016, 08:36 AM
ringotuna
Dec 22 2016, 06:20 AM
Robert Stout
Dec 22 2016, 02:52 AM
I look forward to replacing politicians with laptops........... :)
More nanny state welfare is the left wing "go to solution"
While more "leave them to the not so tender mercies of the free market" is the right wing "go to solution".

What do you suggest as an alternative to both?
You first. :biggrin:
My suggestion would be something you would almost undoubtedly oppose. I think that in the end what will have to happen is that those with the wealth will have sacrifice a portion of it in order to ensure that those without wealth and with no realistic chance to gain health, aren't left to slowly die of starvation and privation.

Because I personally don't see how we can continue down this road of fewer and fewer people benefiting from the creation of wealth without society eventually reaching a crisis point.

Maybe mine is not the only solution, maybe there are others that are just as good. Assuming, of course, that we agree that doing nothing will lead to serious social/economic problems, which we may not. But if you have an idea, I'd be interested in hearing about it.
We already have a serious social economic problem brought on in part by creating a nanny state in which segments of our population are dependent upon the government for sustenance. If there's to be any solution it involves investment in education and job creation. Your solution will only perpetuate the problem. Tax reform, sure, I'm good with that but passing it to those you believe have no chance of improving their economic lot only adds to the problem. Don't give up on them Opie. Have a little faith in the human spirit. With the right motivation and opportunity most people would prefer a greater sense of self reliance.
Edited by ringotuna, Dec 22 2016, 08:17 PM.
Ringoism: Never underestimate the advantages of being underestimated.
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Eddo26
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estonianman
Dec 22 2016, 07:52 PM
automation brings prices down eliminating the need to work long hours.

Thank you capitalism.
How will it bring down prices?
We believe only what we want to believe.
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Opinionated
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ringotuna
Dec 22 2016, 08:14 PM
Opinionated
Dec 22 2016, 06:50 PM
ringotuna
Dec 22 2016, 03:21 PM
Opinionated
Dec 22 2016, 08:36 AM
ringotuna
Dec 22 2016, 06:20 AM

Quoting limited to 5 levels deep
While more "leave them to the not so tender mercies of the free market" is the right wing "go to solution".

What do you suggest as an alternative to both?
You first. :biggrin:
My suggestion would be something you would almost undoubtedly oppose. I think that in the end what will have to happen is that those with the wealth will have sacrifice a portion of it in order to ensure that those without wealth and with no realistic chance to gain health, aren't left to slowly die of starvation and privation.

Because I personally don't see how we can continue down this road of fewer and fewer people benefiting from the creation of wealth without society eventually reaching a crisis point.

Maybe mine is not the only solution, maybe there are others that are just as good. Assuming, of course, that we agree that doing nothing will lead to serious social/economic problems, which we may not. But if you have an idea, I'd be interested in hearing about it.
We already have a serious social economic problem brought on in part by creating a nanny state in which segments of our population are dependent upon the government for sustenance. If there's to be any solution it involves investment in education and job creation. Your solution will only perpetuate the problem. Tax reform, sure, I'm good with that but passing it to those you believe have no chance of improving their economic lot only adds to the problem. Don't give up on them Opie. Have a little faith in the human spirit. With the right motivation and opportunity most people would prefer a greater sense of self reliance.
No man can create prosperity out of nothing. If all the land is owned by others. If all the means of production are owned by others. If even all the ideas are owned by others. And they have no work to offer, how do you propose someone generate their own prosperity, let alone the vast majority of people?

People can't fill jobs that don't exist. Training them for non-existent jobs isn't useful. How would you create these jobs? Pay people to move rocks from one large pile to another and then back? Are we going to create government provided make work in order to have something to pay people for?
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Eddo26
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estonianman
Dec 22 2016, 07:52 PM
automation brings prices down eliminating the need to work long hours.

Thank you capitalism.
Still waiting on your response. When has prices of goods ever gone down voluntarily and not due to regulation?
Edited by Eddo26, Dec 23 2016, 04:17 AM.
We believe only what we want to believe.
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BuckFan

Eddo36
Dec 23 2016, 04:16 AM
estonianman
Dec 22 2016, 07:52 PM
automation brings prices down eliminating the need to work long hours.

Thank you capitalism.
Still waiting on your response. When has prices of goods ever gone down voluntarily and not due to regulation?
It happens all the time. Just look at electronics like TV's. LCD panels and even 4K TVs continually drop in price as the volumes ramp up, cost to manufacture comes down and competitive pressures are exerted. Gas used to be $4 a gallon and now it is $2 (Thanks Obama :) That is driven by the cost of goods coming down and competitive pressure. We on the Left may not like the idea of market pressures but they do exist and they do work.
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Robert Stout
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There would be less automation if corporations were required to pay pensions to workers they laid off............ :confused:
Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid
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Eddo26
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BuckFan
Dec 23 2016, 11:31 AM
Eddo36
Dec 23 2016, 04:16 AM
estonianman
Dec 22 2016, 07:52 PM
automation brings prices down eliminating the need to work long hours.

Thank you capitalism.
Still waiting on your response. When has prices of goods ever gone down voluntarily and not due to regulation?
It happens all the time. Just look at electronics like TV's. LCD panels and even 4K TVs continually drop in price as the volumes ramp up, cost to manufacture comes down and competitive pressures are exerted. Gas used to be $4 a gallon and now it is $2 (Thanks Obama :) That is driven by the cost of goods coming down and competitive pressure. We on the Left may not like the idea of market pressures but they do exist and they do work.
All a drop in the bucket when compared with the rising inflation and increase costs of a living wage.
We believe only what we want to believe.
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BuckFan

Eddo36
Dec 23 2016, 12:45 PM
BuckFan
Dec 23 2016, 11:31 AM
Eddo36
Dec 23 2016, 04:16 AM
estonianman
Dec 22 2016, 07:52 PM
automation brings prices down eliminating the need to work long hours.

Thank you capitalism.
Still waiting on your response. When has prices of goods ever gone down voluntarily and not due to regulation?
It happens all the time. Just look at electronics like TV's. LCD panels and even 4K TVs continually drop in price as the volumes ramp up, cost to manufacture comes down and competitive pressures are exerted. Gas used to be $4 a gallon and now it is $2 (Thanks Obama :) That is driven by the cost of goods coming down and competitive pressure. We on the Left may not like the idea of market pressures but they do exist and they do work.
All a drop in the bucket when compared with the rising inflation and increase costs of a living wage.
Inflation is not rising that much. Why? Because prices like these are going down to offset costs like medical that are going up significantly. Costs have not really gone up that much in general but wages have depressed or stagnated. But then the cost of labor also influences inflation and increased prices. So that drop in a bucket is actually a drop on the same bucket.
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Eddo26
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BuckFan
Dec 23 2016, 01:21 PM
Eddo36
Dec 23 2016, 12:45 PM
BuckFan
Dec 23 2016, 11:31 AM
Eddo36
Dec 23 2016, 04:16 AM
estonianman
Dec 22 2016, 07:52 PM
automation brings prices down eliminating the need to work long hours.

Thank you capitalism.
Still waiting on your response. When has prices of goods ever gone down voluntarily and not due to regulation?
It happens all the time. Just look at electronics like TV's. LCD panels and even 4K TVs continually drop in price as the volumes ramp up, cost to manufacture comes down and competitive pressures are exerted. Gas used to be $4 a gallon and now it is $2 (Thanks Obama :) That is driven by the cost of goods coming down and competitive pressure. We on the Left may not like the idea of market pressures but they do exist and they do work.
All a drop in the bucket when compared with the rising inflation and increase costs of a living wage.
Inflation is not rising that much. Why? Because prices like these are going down to offset costs like medical that are going up significantly. Costs have not really gone up that much in general but wages have depressed or stagnated. But then the cost of labor also influences inflation and increased prices. So that drop in a bucket is actually a drop on the same bucket.
I see, quite insightful. So people today complaining of not having a living wage is due more to depressed/stagnated wages rather than prices increases?
We believe only what we want to believe.
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Harambe4Trump
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Housing costs have surged because of population increase. If all all Immigration ended, housing would decrease.
Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary.
#MAGA
#wallsnotwars
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Opinionated
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Harambe4Trump
Dec 23 2016, 01:26 PM
Housing costs have surged because of population increase. If all all Immigration ended, housing would decrease.
Yeah, that's pretty much not true. Immigration is at best a very small contributor to housing costs.
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BuckFan

Eddo36
Dec 23 2016, 01:25 PM
BuckFan
Dec 23 2016, 01:21 PM
Eddo36
Dec 23 2016, 12:45 PM
BuckFan
Dec 23 2016, 11:31 AM
Eddo36
Dec 23 2016, 04:16 AM

Quoting limited to 5 levels deep
It happens all the time. Just look at electronics like TV's. LCD panels and even 4K TVs continually drop in price as the volumes ramp up, cost to manufacture comes down and competitive pressures are exerted. Gas used to be $4 a gallon and now it is $2 (Thanks Obama :) That is driven by the cost of goods coming down and competitive pressure. We on the Left may not like the idea of market pressures but they do exist and they do work.
All a drop in the bucket when compared with the rising inflation and increase costs of a living wage.
Inflation is not rising that much. Why? Because prices like these are going down to offset costs like medical that are going up significantly. Costs have not really gone up that much in general but wages have depressed or stagnated. But then the cost of labor also influences inflation and increased prices. So that drop in a bucket is actually a drop on the same bucket.
I see, quite insightful. So people today complaining of not having a living wage is due more to depressed/stagnated wages rather than prices increases?
Yep
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ringotuna
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Opinionated
Dec 22 2016, 09:25 PM
ringotuna
Dec 22 2016, 08:14 PM
Opinionated
Dec 22 2016, 06:50 PM
ringotuna
Dec 22 2016, 03:21 PM
Opinionated
Dec 22 2016, 08:36 AM

Quoting limited to 5 levels deep
You first. :biggrin:
My suggestion would be something you would almost undoubtedly oppose. I think that in the end what will have to happen is that those with the wealth will have sacrifice a portion of it in order to ensure that those without wealth and with no realistic chance to gain health, aren't left to slowly die of starvation and privation.

Because I personally don't see how we can continue down this road of fewer and fewer people benefiting from the creation of wealth without society eventually reaching a crisis point.

Maybe mine is not the only solution, maybe there are others that are just as good. Assuming, of course, that we agree that doing nothing will lead to serious social/economic problems, which we may not. But if you have an idea, I'd be interested in hearing about it.
We already have a serious social economic problem brought on in part by creating a nanny state in which segments of our population are dependent upon the government for sustenance. If there's to be any solution it involves investment in education and job creation. Your solution will only perpetuate the problem. Tax reform, sure, I'm good with that but passing it to those you believe have no chance of improving their economic lot only adds to the problem. Don't give up on them Opie. Have a little faith in the human spirit. With the right motivation and opportunity most people would prefer a greater sense of self reliance.
No man can create prosperity out of nothing. If all the land is owned by others. If all the means of production are owned by others. If even all the ideas are owned by others. And they have no work to offer, how do you propose someone generate their own prosperity, let alone the vast majority of people?

People can't fill jobs that don't exist. Training them for non-existent jobs isn't useful. How would you create these jobs? Pay people to move rocks from one large pile to another and then back? Are we going to create government provided make work in order to have something to pay people for?
Quote:
 
No man can create prosperity out of nothing. If all the land is owned by others. If all the means of production are owned by others. If even all the ideas are owned by others. And they have no work to offer, how do you propose someone generate their own prosperity, let alone the vast majority of people?

This is the kind of defeatist boxed in thinking that stagnates progress. The means of production are not finite. All the ideas have not been thought of, and land/property ownership is transferrable. Charles H. Duell the Commissioner of US patent office in 1899 allegedly stated that "everything that can be invented has been invented." He was as wrong then as you are today.

Education: Huffington Post points out, the US is currently experiencing a both a job surplus and a labor shortage, meaning that at one end of the spectrum there is an excess of skilled jobs available but vacant because at the other end is a deficit of people with the skills to fill them. Obviously the solution is to bridge the gap through education...Job training programs. This is where the public and private sectors can cooperate to tap into unused labor resources to fill these idle positions, by supplementing tuition, payroll and on the job training.
Job Creation: Innovation is another under tapped resource. New ideas come forth every day but are stifled by a lack of resources to bring them forward. Again here, the government could support the development of these ideas into jobs, with tax incentives, business loans for start ups, and job creating business supporting. Many local municipalities already recognize this and provide incentives to draw new and expanding businesses.
Insourcing: The greatest progress however is in returning existing jobs to the U.S. This is where our leaders need to take a more firm American's first position. And this is where the government can wield its greatest influence through balanced trade agreements and incentives, positive and negative, for manufacturing and service industries to remain or return.
Quote:
 
People can't fill jobs that don't exist. Training them for non-existent jobs isn't useful. How would you create these jobs? Pay people to move rocks from one large pile to another and then back? Are we going to create government provided make work in order to have something to pay people for?

This is a hyperbolic straw man fallacy which assumes the only means of implementing job growth is to create useless make-work.
The consequences of your 'solution' would be to continue to create a permanent state of ever growing multigenerational dependents out of a mass of valuable untapped potential. It has and will continue to create and deem a whole demograph of society useless, and unworthy of anything more than the scraps our government chooses to feed them. It assumes that they are incapable or unwilling to contribute to society and therefore should be taken as wards of the state. It's the very definition of defeatist.
Ringoism: Never underestimate the advantages of being underestimated.
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Robert Stout
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Opinionated
Dec 23 2016, 08:35 PM
Harambe4Trump
Dec 23 2016, 01:26 PM
Housing costs have surged because of population increase. If all all Immigration ended, housing would decrease.
Yeah, that's pretty much not true. Immigration is at best a very small contributor to housing costs.
Illegal immigration, not legal immigration, is a root cause of many of our nation's problems...By eliminating illegal immigration highways, hospital emergency rooms, schools, and prisons would be less congested...This would eliminate the need to build more infrastructure to accommodate our unwanted guests...Housing rents would go down a little bit due to decreased demand....Rents would go down a lot if it wasn't for 20 illegals living in a one bedroom apartment....Perhaps most of all, neighborhoods would not be subjected to loud blaring mariachi music at 2AM on Sundays............. :popcorn:
Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid
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Harambe4Trump
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Opinionated
Dec 23 2016, 08:35 PM
Harambe4Trump
Dec 23 2016, 01:26 PM
Housing costs have surged because of population increase. If all all Immigration ended, housing would decrease.
Yeah, that's pretty much not true. Immigration is at best a very small contributor to housing costs.
Immigration is the determinative factor and is why Los Angeles and New York have rediculous housing costs. If there were no immigration, the demand factor of housing would collapse.
Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary.
#MAGA
#wallsnotwars
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Harambe4Trump
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Robert Stout
Dec 24 2016, 10:04 AM
Opinionated
Dec 23 2016, 08:35 PM
Harambe4Trump
Dec 23 2016, 01:26 PM
Housing costs have surged because of population increase. If all all Immigration ended, housing would decrease.
Yeah, that's pretty much not true. Immigration is at best a very small contributor to housing costs.
Illegal immigration, not legal immigration, is a root cause of many of our nation's problems...By eliminating illegal immigration highways, hospital emergency rooms, schools, and prisons would be less congested...This would eliminate the need to build more infrastructure to accommodate our unwanted guests...Housing rents would go down a little bit due to decreased demand....Rents would go down a lot if it wasn't for 20 illegals living in a one bedroom apartment....Perhaps most of all, neighborhoods would not be subjected to loud blaring mariachi music at 2AM on Sundays............. :popcorn:
In fact legal immigration is far more destructive.
Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary.
#MAGA
#wallsnotwars
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George Aligator
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Harambe4Trump
Dec 24 2016, 11:24 AM
Robert Stout
Dec 24 2016, 10:04 AM
Opinionated
Dec 23 2016, 08:35 PM
Harambe4Trump
Dec 23 2016, 01:26 PM
Housing costs have surged because of population increase. If all all Immigration ended, housing would decrease.
Yeah, that's pretty much not true. Immigration is at best a very small contributor to housing costs.
Illegal immigration, not legal immigration, is a root cause of many of our nation's problems...By eliminating illegal immigration highways, hospital emergency rooms, schools, and prisons would be less congested...This would eliminate the need to build more infrastructure to accommodate our unwanted guests...Housing rents would go down a little bit due to decreased demand....Rents would go down a lot if it wasn't for 20 illegals living in a one bedroom apartment....Perhaps most of all, neighborhoods would not be subjected to loud blaring mariachi music at 2AM on Sundays............. :popcorn:
In fact legal immigration is far more destructive.
Crowded apartments and loud music in your neighborhood may be a real problem but the national impact of so-called illegal immigration doesn't scale up from that local experience. Illegal immigration is a net plus to the GNP, hard as it may be to believe that when the mariachi is blaring. That doesn't mean illegal immigration should be tolerated or than nothing should be done about adversely impacted neighborhoods, but until we recognize the economic impact of illegal immigration on the over-all economy and the billionaires who own it, the government will continue to slow walk cleaning up your neighborhood. It's the money Bro, where the big guys live there aren't any cheap apartments or loud music, and they don't give a crap about your problems.
Conservatism is a social disease
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