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Artificial Intelligence May Cost US Millions Of Jobs, Increase Inequality, If Social Safety Nets Aren’t Strengthened, White House Report Warns; Maybe time to get that college degree after all, you free marketers
Topic Started: Dec 22 2016, 02:33 AM (2,388 Views)
George Aligator
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Opinionated
Dec 29 2016, 06:23 PM
George Aligator
Dec 29 2016, 04:50 PM
Opinionated
Dec 29 2016, 03:06 PM
George Aligator
Dec 29 2016, 10:35 AM
How far down the income tax rate chart must we tap into to create and support this dependent class?
It's still a damn good question. The answer, as best I can figure it for the current income patterns, is probably about the top quintile. This doesn't mean confiscatory taxation for those making over $500,000/yr but it probably means a return to the Eisenhower era tax scale.

It is important to remember that nothing we may do will create this dependent class because it already exists and is growing rapidly. The heart of the problem is, to put it conservative terms, that a significant and growing segment of the American population is not, under current conditions, able to find work which pays enough. This is not because they are lazy, it is because the contemporary labor market isn't creating enough jobs with adequate pay, especially in blighted areas of the country. It is a structural economic problem; blaming it on moral deficiencies of working people is a mistake.
I think that is the crux of the issue. As machines and automation take on more blue collar jobs and even some white collar jobs, the pool of people unable to find work that will provide for a reasonable standard of living will continue to grow. Training and education will only go so far. Not everyone, not even most people, can be talented and capable enough to fill the high skill jobs that will remain. And even if they were, the competition for the jobs that remain will be fierce and being "good" at your job will not be enough to keep you employed.

Right now, the situation is manageable. Ten or twenty years from now? Maybe, even probably, assuming that we don't destroy ourselves in the meanwhile, not.
I don't know if the technology has come to highways near you, but here in MA and NH we are replacing our turnpike toll booths with overhead EZ-Pass and cameras. A whole job classification of toll booth attendants is disappearing overnight. These were government jobs with government benefits, although the skill level required and the salary paid were both pretty low. There was the security of a job that could be depended upon. In recent years, most of the personnel seemed to be women with families.

The technology makes driving faster, safer and easier. It saves the state a big bunch of dough and even helps the cops track criminals. But what will those displaced workers be doing now? This sort of change is everywhere and growing in scope and extent every day. We have to think about it.
Right now in my state they are developing a pilot program for using drones to assist in bridge inspections. The expectation is that down the road, as drones get better and easier to use, that this will mean that a bridge inspector can inspect more bridges in a day than they can currently. As better drones mean more and more bridges inspected in the same amount of time, this also means a need for fewer and fewer bridge inspectors.

Bridge inspectors are engineers. These not low skill level/low pay jobs.
Alaska, Reliant on Air Transit, Faces Pilot Shortage. Are Drones an Answer?
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/29/us/alaska-pilot-shortage.html

Air freight is going to be drone piloted next, possibly before long-distance trucks. Those who would "make America great again" are speeding down the highway looking in the rearview mirror. The view out the windshield is a bit scarier but safer in reality.
Conservatism is a social disease
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jake58

BuckFan
Dec 29 2016, 05:19 PM
jake58
Dec 28 2016, 03:59 PM
BuckFan
Dec 28 2016, 11:34 AM
PATruth
Dec 27 2016, 11:30 AM
Advanced capitalist economies are experiencing a new phenomena, the ability to create so much with so little. Thanks to automation and innovation we can create too much wealth. When I was a youngster most families had one TV, one phone and one car. Today even modest income families have multiple TV's, several cars, bigger houses, more conveniences and even second homes. This is in stark contrast to centrally planned economies like those in Cuba and Venezuela, where items like toilet paper are in short supply. The real problem we face is how to distribute the massive wealth we create. This is a good problem to have, it sure beats shortages and rationing.
You can point to third world countries that are capitalist economic models that are as poor or poorer than Cuba and Venezuela. Are those two countries poor because of their economic model or because of other factors? You suggest the first while it may easily be the latter.
Must you unload a truckload of derp on every thread you enter? Cuba and Venezuela both were reasonably wealthy before socialism. Cuba ranked 3rd in GDP per capita before Castro behind Venezuela and Uruguay in 1958.

Prior to the Cuban Revolution, Cuba was one of the most advanced and successful countries in Latin America. The country compared favorably with Spain and Portugal on socioeconomic measures. By the 1950s Cuba was as rich per capita as Italy was and richer than Japan. Its income per capita in 1929 was reportedly 41% of the US, thus higher than in Mississippi and South Carolina.

Do we need to talk about the current situation in Venezuela as well?


It may have been wealthy but the Cuban people did not benefit from it.
Cuba was ruled by oligarchs that stripped the country bare. It may have been wealthy but the Cuban people did not benefit from it. Then there is the American embargo that damaged the Cuban economy.
It may have been wealthy but the Cuban people did not benefit from it.

More derp. You might want to ask the Cubans living on $20/month if they feel they're benefiting from socialism.

Then there is the American embargo that damaged the Cuban economy.

Apparently, another advantage of going socialist or communist, whatever. Is this the best you can do? Cos it's a really crap argument.

Cuba and Venezuela were both flourishing economies, perhaps a little unbalanced and subject to some elements of corruption but vastly superior to the inept destruction of their lifestyles under the mantle of socialism.
That which can be asserted without evidence; can be dismissed without evidence- Christopher Hitchens
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CautionaryTales
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peewee
Dec 28 2016, 11:03 AM
CautionaryTales
Dec 27 2016, 07:21 PM
peewee
Dec 26 2016, 03:15 PM
It was not given much press but President Obama has a concern and is well versed in AI with regard to, specifically drone technology, litigation and constitutional laws. There are no laws at this time regarding AI related vehicles, or drones. As a result our courts shy away from drone related cases. Obama is pushing for AI legal research and I hope that Trump will continue Obama's quest. Drone related laws will all be new laws, we have not had a new law established in our nation in over 90 years. Hence laws will be the first.
You " hope Trump will continue Obama's quest" ?

Eeefin kidding aren't ya?

Unless Trump completely disbands The White House Office of Science and Technology Policy Department he will continue to further America's interest in all advances in technology.
If he takes a c**p in the morning and flushes, he will be actively working hard at clean water initiatives too. :rollseyes:


Have you paid your internet taxes?
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peewee

George Aligator
Dec 29 2016, 06:53 PM
Opinionated
Dec 29 2016, 06:23 PM
George Aligator
Dec 29 2016, 04:50 PM
Opinionated
Dec 29 2016, 03:06 PM
George Aligator
Dec 29 2016, 10:35 AM
How far down the income tax rate chart must we tap into to create and support this dependent class?
It's still a damn good question. The answer, as best I can figure it for the current income patterns, is probably about the top quintile. This doesn't mean confiscatory taxation for those making over $500,000/yr but it probably means a return to the Eisenhower era tax scale.

It is important to remember that nothing we may do will create this dependent class because it already exists and is growing rapidly. The heart of the problem is, to put it conservative terms, that a significant and growing segment of the American population is not, under current conditions, able to find work which pays enough. This is not because they are lazy, it is because the contemporary labor market isn't creating enough jobs with adequate pay, especially in blighted areas of the country. It is a structural economic problem; blaming it on moral deficiencies of working people is a mistake.
I think that is the crux of the issue. As machines and automation take on more blue collar jobs and even some white collar jobs, the pool of people unable to find work that will provide for a reasonable standard of living will continue to grow. Training and education will only go so far. Not everyone, not even most people, can be talented and capable enough to fill the high skill jobs that will remain. And even if they were, the competition for the jobs that remain will be fierce and being "good" at your job will not be enough to keep you employed.

Right now, the situation is manageable. Ten or twenty years from now? Maybe, even probably, assuming that we don't destroy ourselves in the meanwhile, not.
I don't know if the technology has come to highways near you, but here in MA and NH we are replacing our turnpike toll booths with overhead EZ-Pass and cameras. A whole job classification of toll booth attendants is disappearing overnight. These were government jobs with government benefits, although the skill level required and the salary paid were both pretty low. There was the security of a job that could be depended upon. In recent years, most of the personnel seemed to be women with families.

The technology makes driving faster, safer and easier. It saves the state a big bunch of dough and even helps the cops track criminals. But what will those displaced workers be doing now? This sort of change is everywhere and growing in scope and extent every day. We have to think about it.
Right now in my state they are developing a pilot program for using drones to assist in bridge inspections. The expectation is that down the road, as drones get better and easier to use, that this will mean that a bridge inspector can inspect more bridges in a day than they can currently. As better drones mean more and more bridges inspected in the same amount of time, this also means a need for fewer and fewer bridge inspectors.

Bridge inspectors are engineers. These not low skill level/low pay jobs.
Alaska, Reliant on Air Transit, Faces Pilot Shortage. Are Drones an Answer?
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/29/us/alaska-pilot-shortage.html

Air freight is going to be drone piloted next, possibly before long-distance trucks. Those who would "make America great again" are speeding down the highway looking in the rearview mirror. The view out the windshield is a bit scarier but safer in reality.
Air Freight but how about ocean shipping as well.
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Right-Wing
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The shipping industry is moving in that direction also but there are not many people on modern cargo ships anyway...
Donald Trump is Barack Obama's President!
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Robert Stout
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peewee
Dec 29 2016, 11:11 PM
George Aligator
Dec 29 2016, 06:53 PM
Opinionated
Dec 29 2016, 06:23 PM
George Aligator
Dec 29 2016, 04:50 PM
Opinionated
Dec 29 2016, 03:06 PM

Quoting limited to 5 levels deep How far down the income tax rate chart must we tap into to create and support this dependent class?
It's still a damn good question. The answer, as best I can figure it for the current income patterns, is probably about the top quintile. This doesn't mean confiscatory taxation for those making over $500,000/yr but it probably means a return to the Eisenhower era tax scale.

It is important to remember that nothing we may do will create
I don't know if the technology has come to highways near you, but here in MA and NH we are replacing our turnpike toll booths with overhead EZ-Pass and cameras. A whole job classification of toll booth attendants is disappearing overnight. These were government jobs with government benefits, although the skill level required and the salary paid were both pretty low. There was the security of a job that could be depended upon. In recent years, most of the personnel seemed to be women with families.

The technology makes driving faster, safer and easier. It saves the state a big bunch of dough and even helps the cops track criminals. But what will those displaced workers be doing now? This sort of change is everywhere and growing in scope and extent every day. We have to think about it.
Right now in my state they are developing a pilot program for using drones to assist in bridge inspections. The expectation is that down the road, as drones get better and easier to use, that this will mean that a bridge inspector can inspect more bridges in a day than they can currently. As better drones mean more and more bridges inspected in the same amount of time, this also means a need for fewer and fewer bridge inspectors.

Bridge inspectors are engineers. These not low skill level/low pay jobs.
Alaska, Reliant on Air Transit, Faces Pilot Shortage. Are Drones an Answer?
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/29/us/alaska-pilot-shortage.html

Air freight is going to be drone piloted next, possibly before long-distance trucks. Those who would "make America great again" are speeding down the highway looking in the rearview mirror. The view out the windshield is a bit scarier but safer in reality.
Air Freight but how about ocean shipping as well.
I hope they make autonomous aircraft and cars safer than they make auto air bags............... :oyvey
Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid
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