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Report: Powerful labor union plans massive budget cuts in wake of Donald Trump victory; The good news just keeps coming...
Topic Started: Dec 27 2016, 01:30 PM (977 Views)
clone
Member Avatar
Director @ Center for Advanced Memetic Warfare
Most of these union contracts are for a multiplier of the minimum wage....very sneaky way for these bastards to claim to be for the little guy when they are anything but....actually screw the minimum wage earner while they are at it...
Only liberals can choose not to go down the road to widespread, systematic violence.
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BuckFan

estonianman
Dec 27 2016, 11:20 PM
BuckFan
Dec 27 2016, 11:19 PM
estonianman
Dec 27 2016, 11:12 PM
BuckFan
Dec 27 2016, 11:09 PM
estonianman
Dec 27 2016, 08:32 PM

Quoting limited to 5 levels deep
Typical Rightie logic. Unions are the worker, they cannot and are not anti-worker nor are they anti-labor.

The fact is if you track the loss of union membership and power you will be tracking the loss of middle class income
So you support monopolies? Why
Unions are not monopolies
Who do they compete against then?
management, other unions, non-unionized workers
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estonianman
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BuckFan
Dec 27 2016, 11:25 PM
management

Their customers?

other unions

The UAW competes against what other manufacturing union?

non-unionized workers

You're kidding
MEEK AND MILD
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Right-Wing
Member Avatar

estonianman
Dec 27 2016, 11:27 PM
BuckFan
Dec 27 2016, 11:25 PM
management

Their customers?

other unions

The UAW competes against what other manufacturing union?

non-unionized workers

You're kidding
Liberalism is a mental disorder...
Donald Trump is Barack Obama's President!
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clone
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Director @ Center for Advanced Memetic Warfare
BuckFan
Dec 27 2016, 11:25 PM
estonianman
Dec 27 2016, 11:20 PM
BuckFan
Dec 27 2016, 11:19 PM
estonianman
Dec 27 2016, 11:12 PM
BuckFan
Dec 27 2016, 11:09 PM

Quoting limited to 5 levels deep
So you support monopolies? Why
Unions are not monopolies
Who do they compete against then?
management, other unions, non-unionized workers
How does that work with the OP which represents Federal workers....?

Quote:
 
"It's impossible to bargain collectively with the Federal government"


That wasn’t Newt Gingrich, or Ron Paul, or Ronald Reagan talking. That was George Meany -- the former president of the A.F.L.-C.I.O -- in 1955.

FDR Warned Us About Public Sector Unions - NY Times


:popcorn:
Only liberals can choose not to go down the road to widespread, systematic violence.
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Robert Stout
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estonianman
Dec 27 2016, 11:20 PM
BuckFan
Dec 27 2016, 11:19 PM
estonianman
Dec 27 2016, 11:12 PM
BuckFan
Dec 27 2016, 11:09 PM
estonianman
Dec 27 2016, 08:32 PM

Quoting limited to 5 levels deep
Typical Rightie logic. Unions are the worker, they cannot and are not anti-worker nor are they anti-labor.

The fact is if you track the loss of union membership and power you will be tracking the loss of middle class income
So you support monopolies? Why
Unions are not monopolies
Who do they compete against then?
As a former union official, I know that unions compete with each other............ :biggrin:
Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid
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Coast2coast

estonianman
Dec 27 2016, 08:32 PM
Coast2coast
Dec 27 2016, 06:38 PM
The same people that are against the collective bargaining of Unions are also against a minimum wage.

It all spells anti-labor / anti-worker.





Unions monopolizing the labor force are anti-worker.

You fail on all accounts.
Your comment is senseless and completely lacks substance.

It also hides from the comment I made that you are "responding" to.
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PATruth
Member Avatar

George Aligator
Dec 27 2016, 06:38 PM
PATruth
Dec 27 2016, 02:34 PM
Today's labor unions, especially those representing government employees, are pushing an outdated product. If you look at cities like Chicago they are basically bankrupting the government while providing less and less in terms of real services. The legacy costs are staggering and unaffordable despite record high taxes. It's a bad joke to say they "serve the people", it's more like the taxpayers are serving the unions. Private sector unions, especially in the trades have made strides to become more cost conscious and business friendly. It's really a tale of two unions.
I agree with you that the labor movement has failed to keep up with the times and the changing global economy. Personally, I date the crisis to the day the UAW over-ruled Walter Reuther and elected to accept GM's offer of a handsome salary and benefits package rather than seats on the board of directors such as the European auto unions were bargaining for. The result was a a decade or so of unprecedented salaries for workers but powerlessness when the sh!t hit the fan from Japanese competition and the oil shocks.

There has also been a class divide going back to the early days of the AFL and the disdain of skilled labor unions for the CIO. When the service sector of the American economy boomed, the labor movement was asleep at the switch, fat and happy.

I'm no defender of the labor movement but, for all its imperfections, it has been the key to the wealth distribution issue in Europe while we have been bled white by the 1%. I have nothing against the rich; hell, I am one of them; but too many American families just have too much month left over by the end of the money. Our world competitiveness and social stability are being undermined by current domestic tax policy.
Government sector unions, especially the teachers unions are in for some bad times as their wages and benefits are butting heads with economic reality. Local budgets are becoming more and more consumed with retirements benefits, siphoning huge amounts of money from actual education. They will slowly be forced back to reality.

Private sectors unions need to reinvent themselves. They are still run by strongmen like Hoffa that more closely resemble organized crime organizations. Todays structure is adversarial, that doesn't benefit labor or management. If they want a bigger piece of the pie they have to be part of ownership. I totally agree, having a seat on the board is a great place to start. Owning substantial shares in the companies they represent is even better. That provides profit sharing and a voice. Buy stock, you get a vote and a dividend check.

Labor unions should provide the type of benefits workers want to join. As it stands there's too much friction in the process, it divides labor and management. Management needs to also see benefits in a union relationship. That can come from more worker flexibility and greater productivity.

I was a steelworker when I was going to college, I saw the old confrontational model and it doesn't work. It was a constant battle between the union and the old US Steel. When the steel industry died half my city died along with it. The unions need a new approach although that will be difficult, it's still run by the uncles, brothers and nephews of the old bosses.
"No. No he won't. We'll stop it."
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BuckFan

PATruth
Dec 28 2016, 10:21 AM
George Aligator
Dec 27 2016, 06:38 PM
PATruth
Dec 27 2016, 02:34 PM
Today's labor unions, especially those representing government employees, are pushing an outdated product. If you look at cities like Chicago they are basically bankrupting the government while providing less and less in terms of real services. The legacy costs are staggering and unaffordable despite record high taxes. It's a bad joke to say they "serve the people", it's more like the taxpayers are serving the unions. Private sector unions, especially in the trades have made strides to become more cost conscious and business friendly. It's really a tale of two unions.
I agree with you that the labor movement has failed to keep up with the times and the changing global economy. Personally, I date the crisis to the day the UAW over-ruled Walter Reuther and elected to accept GM's offer of a handsome salary and benefits package rather than seats on the board of directors such as the European auto unions were bargaining for. The result was a a decade or so of unprecedented salaries for workers but powerlessness when the sh!t hit the fan from Japanese competition and the oil shocks.

There has also been a class divide going back to the early days of the AFL and the disdain of skilled labor unions for the CIO. When the service sector of the American economy boomed, the labor movement was asleep at the switch, fat and happy.

I'm no defender of the labor movement but, for all its imperfections, it has been the key to the wealth distribution issue in Europe while we have been bled white by the 1%. I have nothing against the rich; hell, I am one of them; but too many American families just have too much month left over by the end of the money. Our world competitiveness and social stability are being undermined by current domestic tax policy.
Government sector unions, especially the teachers unions are in for some bad times as their wages and benefits are butting heads with economic reality. Local budgets are becoming more and more consumed with retirements benefits, siphoning huge amounts of money from actual education. They will slowly be forced back to reality.

Private sectors unions need to reinvent themselves. They are still run by strongmen like Hoffa that more closely resemble organized crime organizations. Todays structure is adversarial, that doesn't benefit labor or management. If they want a bigger piece of the pie they have to be part of ownership. I totally agree, having a seat on the board is a great place to start. Owning substantial shares in the companies they represent is even better. That provides profit sharing and a voice. Buy stock, you get a vote and a dividend check.

Labor unions should provide the type of benefits workers want to join. As it stands there's too much friction in the process, it divides labor and management. Management needs to also see benefits in a union relationship. That can come from more worker flexibility and greater productivity.

I was a steelworker when I was going to college, I saw the old confrontational model and it doesn't work. It was a constant battle between the union and the old US Steel. When the steel industry died half my city died along with it. The unions need a new approach although that will be difficult, it's still run by the uncles, brothers and nephews of the old bosses.
Labor has moved way beyond the Hoffa model, that is a lie by the Right used to besmirch the modern labor movement.
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PATruth
Member Avatar

BuckFan
Dec 28 2016, 11:39 AM
PATruth
Dec 28 2016, 10:21 AM
George Aligator
Dec 27 2016, 06:38 PM
PATruth
Dec 27 2016, 02:34 PM
Today's labor unions, especially those representing government employees, are pushing an outdated product. If you look at cities like Chicago they are basically bankrupting the government while providing less and less in terms of real services. The legacy costs are staggering and unaffordable despite record high taxes. It's a bad joke to say they "serve the people", it's more like the taxpayers are serving the unions. Private sector unions, especially in the trades have made strides to become more cost conscious and business friendly. It's really a tale of two unions.
I agree with you that the labor movement has failed to keep up with the times and the changing global economy. Personally, I date the crisis to the day the UAW over-ruled Walter Reuther and elected to accept GM's offer of a handsome salary and benefits package rather than seats on the board of directors such as the European auto unions were bargaining for. The result was a a decade or so of unprecedented salaries for workers but powerlessness when the sh!t hit the fan from Japanese competition and the oil shocks.

There has also been a class divide going back to the early days of the AFL and the disdain of skilled labor unions for the CIO. When the service sector of the American economy boomed, the labor movement was asleep at the switch, fat and happy.

I'm no defender of the labor movement but, for all its imperfections, it has been the key to the wealth distribution issue in Europe while we have been bled white by the 1%. I have nothing against the rich; hell, I am one of them; but too many American families just have too much month left over by the end of the money. Our world competitiveness and social stability are being undermined by current domestic tax policy.
Government sector unions, especially the teachers unions are in for some bad times as their wages and benefits are butting heads with economic reality. Local budgets are becoming more and more consumed with retirements benefits, siphoning huge amounts of money from actual education. They will slowly be forced back to reality.

Private sectors unions need to reinvent themselves. They are still run by strongmen like Hoffa that more closely resemble organized crime organizations. Todays structure is adversarial, that doesn't benefit labor or management. If they want a bigger piece of the pie they have to be part of ownership. I totally agree, having a seat on the board is a great place to start. Owning substantial shares in the companies they represent is even better. That provides profit sharing and a voice. Buy stock, you get a vote and a dividend check.

Labor unions should provide the type of benefits workers want to join. As it stands there's too much friction in the process, it divides labor and management. Management needs to also see benefits in a union relationship. That can come from more worker flexibility and greater productivity.

I was a steelworker when I was going to college, I saw the old confrontational model and it doesn't work. It was a constant battle between the union and the old US Steel. When the steel industry died half my city died along with it. The unions need a new approach although that will be difficult, it's still run by the uncles, brothers and nephews of the old bosses.
Labor has moved way beyond the Hoffa model, that is a lie by the Right used to besmirch the modern labor movement.
Who's the President of the Teamsters? Jimmy Hoffa Jr.?

As usual Bucky you have no idea what you're talking about.

Nearly fifty years after John F. Kennedy first condemned corrupt leadership in the American labor movement, it is still plagued by rampant corruption, embezzlement, racketeering and influence from numerous organized crime organizations. From penny-ante theft to multi-million dollar embezzlement schemes, labor leaders continue to violate the trust of the members they claim to represent.

The Department of Labor’s (DOL) Office of Labor-Management Standards (OLMS) has investigated and prosecuted union leaders for embezzling more than $100 million in union dues since 2001

https://www.unionfacts.com/article/crime-and-corruption/
"No. No he won't. We'll stop it."
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estonianman
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Coast2coast
Dec 28 2016, 01:56 AM
estonianman
Dec 27 2016, 08:32 PM
Coast2coast
Dec 27 2016, 06:38 PM
The same people that are against the collective bargaining of Unions are also against a minimum wage.

It all spells anti-labor / anti-worker.





Unions monopolizing the labor force are anti-worker.

You fail on all accounts.
Your comment is senseless and completely lacks substance.

It also hides from the comment I made that you are "responding" to.
You can't refute t comrade.

That's okay - the entire left is getting their ass handed to them in this thread, so you have company.
Edited by estonianman, Dec 28 2016, 01:24 PM.
MEEK AND MILD
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George Aligator
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clone
Dec 27 2016, 11:24 PM
Most of these union contracts are for a multiplier of the minimum wage....very sneaky way for these bastards to claim to be for the little guy when they are anything but....actually screw the minimum wage earner while they are at it...
The data prove that union wage increases cause parallel increases in non-union shops and lead to wage increases in sectors where pay scales are lower. Union wage negotiations are never conducted in terms of the legal minimum wage. Minimum wages are set by state legislatures and the federal Congress.

Calling union workers "bastards" demonstrates your prejudice; the rest of the post demonstrates your ignorance. The two go hand in had with Trump chumps, angry little fellows who have no idea what they are yelling about. Thanks for the laugh
Conservatism is a social disease
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Right-Wing
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George Aligator
Dec 28 2016, 06:35 PM
Union wage negotiations are never conducted in terms of the legal minimum wage. Minimum wages are set by state legislatures and the federal Congress.

Letter of Agreement

In the event the State or Federal minimum wage increases during the term of this Agreement (2007-2011)
to a rate greater than eight dollars ($8.00), each rate will be at least twenty cents ($0.20) above the
minimum wage and each rate will be at least ten cents ($0.10) higher than the previous rate in the
progression schedule. This letter of Agreement expires June 5, 2011.

https://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/cba/pdf/cbrp2146.pdf (Bottom of page 29)

Another one https://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/cba/pdf/cbrp0241.pdf (bottom of page 13)

And Another one https://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/cba/private/box/7/K876.pdf (page 26)
Donald Trump is Barack Obama's President!
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Coast2coast

estonianman
Dec 28 2016, 01:23 PM
Coast2coast
Dec 28 2016, 01:56 AM
estonianman
Dec 27 2016, 08:32 PM
Coast2coast
Dec 27 2016, 06:38 PM
The same people that are against the collective bargaining of Unions are also against a minimum wage.

It all spells anti-labor / anti-worker.





Unions monopolizing the labor force are anti-worker.

You fail on all accounts.
Your comment is senseless and completely lacks substance.

It also hides from the comment I made that you are "responding" to.
You can't refute t comrade.

That's okay - the entire left is getting their ass handed to them in this thread, so you have company.
Nothing to refute when you offered nothing but nonsense.

And you still have yet to respond to my initial post.





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Right-Wing
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The minimum wage law is most properly described as a law saying that employers must discriminate against people who have low skills - Milton Friedman
Donald Trump is Barack Obama's President!
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George Aligator
Member Avatar

Right-Wing
Dec 27 2016, 11:32 PM
estonianman
Dec 27 2016, 11:27 PM
BuckFan
Dec 27 2016, 11:25 PM
management

Their customers?

other unions

The UAW competes against what other manufacturing union?

non-unionized workers

You're kidding
Liberalism is a mental disorder...
If ^^^ liberalism is a mental disorder, conservatism is a sexual dysfunction.
Conservatism is a social disease
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Right-Wing
Member Avatar

George Aligator
Dec 28 2016, 08:31 PM
Right-Wing
Dec 27 2016, 11:32 PM
estonianman
Dec 27 2016, 11:27 PM
BuckFan
Dec 27 2016, 11:25 PM
management

Their customers?

other unions

The UAW competes against what other manufacturing union?

non-unionized workers

You're kidding
Liberalism is a mental disorder...
If ^^^ liberalism is a mental disorder, conservatism is a sexual dysfunction.
:lol: pathetic GA, just pathetic...
Donald Trump is Barack Obama's President!
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jake58

Right-Wing
Dec 28 2016, 07:04 PM
George Aligator
Dec 28 2016, 06:35 PM
Union wage negotiations are never conducted in terms of the legal minimum wage. Minimum wages are set by state legislatures and the federal Congress.

Letter of Agreement

In the event the State or Federal minimum wage increases during the term of this Agreement (2007-2011)
to a rate greater than eight dollars ($8.00), each rate will be at least twenty cents ($0.20) above the
minimum wage and each rate will be at least ten cents ($0.10) higher than the previous rate in the
progression schedule. This letter of Agreement expires June 5, 2011.

https://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/cba/pdf/cbrp2146.pdf (Bottom of page 29)

Another one https://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/cba/pdf/cbrp0241.pdf (bottom of page 13)

And Another one https://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/cba/private/box/7/K876.pdf (page 26)
surprising that George didn't want to comment on this... well, not so surprising as completely expected
That which can be asserted without evidence; can be dismissed without evidence- Christopher Hitchens
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clone
Member Avatar
Director @ Center for Advanced Memetic Warfare
jake58
Dec 28 2016, 08:52 PM
Right-Wing
Dec 28 2016, 07:04 PM
George Aligator
Dec 28 2016, 06:35 PM
Union wage negotiations are never conducted in terms of the legal minimum wage. Minimum wages are set by state legislatures and the federal Congress.

Letter of Agreement

In the event the State or Federal minimum wage increases during the term of this Agreement (2007-2011)
to a rate greater than eight dollars ($8.00), each rate will be at least twenty cents ($0.20) above the
minimum wage and each rate will be at least ten cents ($0.10) higher than the previous rate in the
progression schedule. This letter of Agreement expires June 5, 2011.

https://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/cba/pdf/cbrp2146.pdf (Bottom of page 29)

Another one https://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/cba/pdf/cbrp0241.pdf (bottom of page 13)

And Another one https://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/cba/private/box/7/K876.pdf (page 26)
surprising that George didn't want to comment on this... well, not so surprising as completely expected
Agreed

Just Why Are The Unions Supporting A Rise In The Minimum Wage?

"But the United Food and Commercial Workers International Union says that pegging its wages to the federal minimum is commonplace. On its website, the UFCW notes that "oftentimes, union contracts are triggered to implement wage hikes in the case of minimum wage increases." Such increases, the UFCW says, are "one of the many advantages of being a union member."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/01/12/just-why-are-the-unions-supporting-a-rise-in-the-minimum-wage/#2d86c2412b2f

It's almost as if the smirking class get their info from fake sources?

Liberalism is a mental disorder...
Only liberals can choose not to go down the road to widespread, systematic violence.
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BuckFan

PATruth
Dec 28 2016, 12:13 PM
BuckFan
Dec 28 2016, 11:39 AM
PATruth
Dec 28 2016, 10:21 AM
George Aligator
Dec 27 2016, 06:38 PM
PATruth
Dec 27 2016, 02:34 PM
Today's labor unions, especially those representing government employees, are pushing an outdated product. If you look at cities like Chicago they are basically bankrupting the government while providing less and less in terms of real services. The legacy costs are staggering and unaffordable despite record high taxes. It's a bad joke to say they "serve the people", it's more like the taxpayers are serving the unions. Private sector unions, especially in the trades have made strides to become more cost conscious and business friendly. It's really a tale of two unions.
I agree with you that the labor movement has failed to keep up with the times and the changing global economy. Personally, I date the crisis to the day the UAW over-ruled Walter Reuther and elected to accept GM's offer of a handsome salary and benefits package rather than seats on the board of directors such as the European auto unions were bargaining for. The result was a a decade or so of unprecedented salaries for workers but powerlessness when the sh!t hit the fan from Japanese competition and the oil shocks.

There has also been a class divide going back to the early days of the AFL and the disdain of skilled labor unions for the CIO. When the service sector of the American economy boomed, the labor movement was asleep at the switch, fat and happy.

I'm no defender of the labor movement but, for all its imperfections, it has been the key to the wealth distribution issue in Europe while we have been bled white by the 1%. I have nothing against the rich; hell, I am one of them; but too many American families just have too much month left over by the end of the money. Our world competitiveness and social stability are being undermined by current domestic tax policy.
Government sector unions, especially the teachers unions are in for some bad times as their wages and benefits are butting heads with economic reality. Local budgets are becoming more and more consumed with retirements benefits, siphoning huge amounts of money from actual education. They will slowly be forced back to reality.

Private sectors unions need to reinvent themselves. They are still run by strongmen like Hoffa that more closely resemble organized crime organizations. Todays structure is adversarial, that doesn't benefit labor or management. If they want a bigger piece of the pie they have to be part of ownership. I totally agree, having a seat on the board is a great place to start. Owning substantial shares in the companies they represent is even better. That provides profit sharing and a voice. Buy stock, you get a vote and a dividend check.

Labor unions should provide the type of benefits workers want to join. As it stands there's too much friction in the process, it divides labor and management. Management needs to also see benefits in a union relationship. That can come from more worker flexibility and greater productivity.

I was a steelworker when I was going to college, I saw the old confrontational model and it doesn't work. It was a constant battle between the union and the old US Steel. When the steel industry died half my city died along with it. The unions need a new approach although that will be difficult, it's still run by the uncles, brothers and nephews of the old bosses.
Labor has moved way beyond the Hoffa model, that is a lie by the Right used to besmirch the modern labor movement.
Who's the President of the Teamsters? Jimmy Hoffa Jr.?

As usual Bucky you have no idea what you're talking about.

Nearly fifty years after John F. Kennedy first condemned corrupt leadership in the American labor movement, it is still plagued by rampant corruption, embezzlement, racketeering and influence from numerous organized crime organizations. From penny-ante theft to multi-million dollar embezzlement schemes, labor leaders continue to violate the trust of the members they claim to represent.

The Department of Labor’s (DOL) Office of Labor-Management Standards (OLMS) has investigated and prosecuted union leaders for embezzling more than $100 million in union dues since 2001

https://www.unionfacts.com/article/crime-and-corruption/
Unionfacts.com is the website for the Center for Union Facts, a DC based lobbying organization created by Richard Berman who specializes in PR campaigns centered around "research centers" that are funded by industry and develop "facts" beneficial to those industries.

Yes, there are still union people who break the law, just like there are people in all walks of life that break the law. But the "mob" has moved on from labor.
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