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Removing the illegals:Jobs for Americans
Topic Started: Jan 27 2017, 11:23 PM (1,457 Views)
Tsalagi
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I've heard this mantra for years, that illegals take jobs from honest to God American citizens. That if we could only get rid of them, there would be plenty for all, a smorgasborg of employers willing to open their doors to unemployed American citizens.

Now I've wondered, where does this fantasy come from. Let's assume for argument sake the 20 million number is accurate, and I'm just going to kick out some hypothetical numbers here guys so don't ask me for links, I'm just supposing here.

Odds are a good 3rd would be underage children, that takes out 7-8 million right there, of the remaining number, a quarter of that number over 65, another 3-4 million. So, right off the back, roughly half of them are not taking any jobs from us. Then there are smaller numbers for the criminal element, the mentally handicapped, addicted, or other wise not working. So now we're down to maybe 8 million.

So let's go with this round number here, 8 million jobs they are taking from Americans. The two major industries that would employ them are the agribusiness's that dot the southwest and southeast, and the construction industry, although the food & textile industries would be a good contender for a 3rd and 4th.

They are the dishwasher in the back, the seamstress in the sweat shop, the guy picking oranges, and the carpenter putting up the wall in your new addition.

Now, I'll grant you the construction business is the most would assume Americans would work in because of the potential income. Assuming the boss pays decent wages, and it's not the illegals fault if the legal owner won't pay more to hire Americans now is it?

Now in full disclosure, my family and a good many of the farming families in the area have used illegals in their operations..they're good, hard working family men and women for the most part. They're paid a good wage, not great, but good for their services. The work is hard, in hot, miserable conditions mostly. Depending on the type of crop you're working, you're dealing with a hell of a day, a very long day.

Ringo and Thoughtless down Texas certainly have seen it, the agribusiness and the ranchers have been using Mexican labor for decades. There are many who believe the concept of the cowboy originated with Mexican ranch hands.

So from what naive mindset comes this fantasy if they could just get rid of the illegals then American citizens would be flocking to work these nasty long hard jobs?
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Harambe4Trump
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https://www.google.com/amp/www.forbes.com/sites/prossermarc/2016/05/16/japanese-robot-farm-company-going-big-and-looking-at-new-vegetables/?client=safari
Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary.
#MAGA
#wallsnotwars
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Tsalagi
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All I had to see was Japan and robots, try to stick to the subject and not the fantasy, which is why I used the words "naive mindset" and "fantasy".

How bout trying to actually address my statements.
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Harambe4Trump
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Tsalagi
Jan 27 2017, 11:30 PM
All I had to see was Japan and robots, try to stick to the subject and not the fantasy, which is why I used the words "naive mindset" and "fantasy".

How bout trying to actually address my statements.
If the indstury cannot survive on American labor it would be preferable for the industry to fail.
Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary.
#MAGA
#wallsnotwars
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Tsalagi
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Harambe4Trump
Jan 27 2017, 11:34 PM
Tsalagi
Jan 27 2017, 11:30 PM
All I had to see was Japan and robots, try to stick to the subject and not the fantasy, which is why I used the words "naive mindset" and "fantasy".

How bout trying to actually address my statements.
If the indstury cannot survive on American labor it would be preferable for the industry to fail.
Again, not addressing the question..but, ok, if you're fine with rotting harvest, how does starvation sound to you, when do you plan on starting your own crops?
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clone
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Director @ Center for Advanced Memetic Warfare
Tsal and his hyperbole strikes again....

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Only liberals can choose not to go down the road to widespread, systematic violence.
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Harambe4Trump
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Tsalagi
Jan 27 2017, 11:41 PM
Harambe4Trump
Jan 27 2017, 11:34 PM
Tsalagi
Jan 27 2017, 11:30 PM
All I had to see was Japan and robots, try to stick to the subject and not the fantasy, which is why I used the words "naive mindset" and "fantasy".

How bout trying to actually address my statements.
If the indstury cannot survive on American labor it would be preferable for the industry to fail.
Again, not addressing the question..but, ok, if you're fine with rotting harvest, how does starvation sound to you, when do you plan on starting your own crops?
Americans are the fattest people on earth, let them go on a diet.
Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary.
#MAGA
#wallsnotwars
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Harambe4Trump
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I would rather these farmers who employ illegals have their crops burnt than be accommodated. These people would sell their birthright for a dollar.
Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary.
#MAGA
#wallsnotwars
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Tsalagi
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clone
Jan 27 2017, 11:41 PM
Tsal and his hyperbole strikes again....

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Ok, neither you nor H4t have actually attempted to address the question, perhaps I should have put this on the no hostility forum, then you and he would be forced to actually address the question, in fact, if there is a mod please move this to that forum please.
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Harambe4Trump
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Tsalagi
Jan 27 2017, 11:44 PM
clone
Jan 27 2017, 11:41 PM
Tsal and his hyperbole strikes again....

Posted Image

Ok, neither you nor H4t have actually attempted to address the question, perhaps I should have put this on the no hostility forum, then you and he would be forced to actually address the question, in fact, if there is a mod please move this to that forum please.
You don't like my answer.
Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary.
#MAGA
#wallsnotwars
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Tsalagi
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Harambe4Trump
Jan 27 2017, 11:45 PM
Tsalagi
Jan 27 2017, 11:44 PM
clone
Jan 27 2017, 11:41 PM
Tsal and his hyperbole strikes again....

Posted Image

Ok, neither you nor H4t have actually attempted to address the question, perhaps I should have put this on the no hostility forum, then you and he would be forced to actually address the question, in fact, if there is a mod please move this to that forum please.
You don't like my answer.
You put for an answer that wasn't for my question. This btw would be the 3rd question you patently have refused to answer, your intellectual integrity is shot to hell
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Drudge X
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Funny Mr. T only look at the benefits these illegals provide us.

What about the 12 million people? Who is paying for their benefits and the cost to incarcerate them?
Edited by Drudge X, Jan 27 2017, 11:51 PM.
Kate Steinle was separated from her family permanently but leftists didn't seem to mind.
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Tsalagi
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Drudge X
Jan 27 2017, 11:51 PM
Funny Mr. T only look at the benefits these illegals provide us.

What about the 12 million people? Who is paying for their benefits and the cost to incarcerate them?
Please try to address the topic. I will not be addressing strawman here
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Drudge X
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I am only offering the other side of the coin. If illegal immigration is so beneficial, why won't Mexico allow illegal immigration to Mexico?
Kate Steinle was separated from her family permanently but leftists didn't seem to mind.
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Freaks
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I don't know why people need to come up with anything. You'd think an unknown person completely disrespecting a country enough to break into it would be enough. If anything, people who are actually upstanding that are trying to come here through the proper avenues should be one of the angriest.
Edited by Freaks, Jan 28 2017, 12:42 AM.
"I'll be the fella to save his Cinderella,
by turnin' her dream world into real life."
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Tsalagi
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Drudge X
Jan 27 2017, 11:54 PM
I am only offering the other side of the coin. If illegal immigration is so beneficial, why won't Mexico allow illegal immigration to Mexico?
I am pretty sure I didn't ask for the other side, of the coin, I asked for the answer to my question and so far, the three of you have failed utterly to answer it, as long as you refuse to address my question, I will not be addressing yours.
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Opinionated
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Quote:
 
So from what naive mindset comes this fantasy if they could just get rid of the illegals then American citizens would be flocking to work these nasty long hard jobs?


I think most reasonable people understand that this really is just a fantasy. Agribusiness in particular isn't going to be able to pay high enough wages to attract American workers. And let's be brutally honest, most blacks would rather have their teeth pulled out with pliers than to return to the work their forefathers were forced to perform under slavery.

Call us lazy, but most Americans simply don't see hard physical labor, the kind that wears your body out by the time you're in your 40s, with no benefits and marginal wages and being worth it. Sure, conservatives who don't actually have to do that kind of work think it's the next best thing to sliced bread. But for those who are actually out there picking the crops? Not so much.

So, as soon as illegal immigrants are no longer available there will be a significant push for a robust worker visa program where foreign workers come in for the picking season and then turn around and leave. These claims of all these jobs suddenly made available? Not really going to be the reality. When corporations don't want to pay what it takes to get Americans to do the work, they bring in foreigners. Why would that change now? Particularly when most of the agribusiness is all through the conservative controlled states? Are the Republicans really going to tell their constituents that they have to let their crops rot in the fields? You and I both know, that's not going to happen.

The only thing that might change significantly is that reduce the numbers of illegal immigrants receiving, directly or indirectly, social support of one kind or another. Is this going to be a major difference? Hard to say, but I tend to doubt it. Those costs are simply a drop in the bucket in comparison to our GDP and the costs associated with everything else. Of course, if it saves us a dollar, many conservatives will call that a resounding success.

My worry is not so much the consequences for illegal immigrants, although I think those will be overly harsh, but rather how it changes our country. Is everyone who looks vaguely Hispanic now going to be under automatic suspicion of being an illegal immigrant? Are people like you, Tsalagi, going to be "stopped and frisked" on a regular basis just because you might vaguely look Hispanic? What kind of nation are we creating? How is this going to work?

I'm honestly quiet concerned. And I think the touted benefits of it are way over blown, while the disadvantages of it are being completely ignored.

I guess we'll see what it's like in Trump's America in four years. I fear it may no longer be the America I've known, and loved.
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Right-Wing
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Let them buy American made machinery to harvest their crops...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-20/robot-crop-pickers-limit-loss-of-u-s-farm-workers-to-trump-wall

So manufacturing and construction jobs back to Americans...any other silly questions?
Edited by Right-Wing, Jan 28 2017, 01:36 AM.
Donald Trump is Barack Obama's President!
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Drudge X
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Tsalagi
Jan 27 2017, 11:55 PM
Drudge X
Jan 27 2017, 11:54 PM
I am only offering the other side of the coin. If illegal immigration is so beneficial, why won't Mexico allow illegal immigration to Mexico?
I am pretty sure I didn't ask for the other side, of the coin, I asked for the answer to my question and so far, the three of you have failed utterly to answer it, as long as you refuse to address my question, I will not be addressing yours.
You question is hypothetical and so is my answer. Now, can you point to some empirical study or non bias study showing that if we remove all illegal immigrants, Americans refused to do the work illegal immigrants are currently doing?

Cut welfare and entitlement programs are a good start to get the lazy ass citizens working.
Edited by Drudge X, Jan 28 2017, 03:29 AM.
Kate Steinle was separated from her family permanently but leftists didn't seem to mind.
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Robert Stout
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I remember America before we had large numbers of illegal aliens....Ballots were not in Spanish, pressing two would not do anything on your phone, English as a second language was not available in school....Jobs in food service, construction, hotels, and health services paid better....Interpreters were not used in court....Criminals spoke English...You could be seen in a hospital emergency room within two hours...Cab drivers understood where you wanted to go...There was less public drunkenness....Street names were in English....Your 14 year old daughter would not be abducted for marriage....Entire extended families from Mexico did not suddenly materialize in a one bedroom apartment...People did not wear their native costumes from their homeland....Everyone wanted to be an American....Mariachi music would not reverberate in the neighborhood every Sunday at 2AM....

Life in America felt better before illegal aliens...You felt you didn't live in a third world country............. :dunno:
Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid
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