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The anti-Trump resistance will fail if we don't ditch establishment Democrats; We can’t succeed if we are tied to generations of unpopular Democratic party leaders
Topic Started: Jan 31 2017, 07:33 PM (947 Views)
Eddo26
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Two a.m.
Feb 1 2017, 12:28 AM
Eddo36
Jan 31 2017, 08:27 PM
Two a.m.
Jan 31 2017, 07:59 PM
Eddo36
Jan 31 2017, 07:48 PM
Two a.m.
Jan 31 2017, 07:47 PM

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And that attitude is why you lost.

I didn't have it when we lost. I was willing to partner with liberals. I was willing to work with liberals. I was even willing to fight for Bernie Sanders if the people chose him as their nominee and I fully said as much.

Unfortunately, liberals showed they had no interest in working with anyone. They preferred to lose the election and hand the country over to a madman then to act like adults and fight the good fight.

This is - in some sense - by design. Liberals intentionally sabotaged Clinton's centrist campaign so they could effectively create the problem of Trump. Then they come along peddling themselves as the "solution." Conservatives pull the same kind of game. They destroy government and then campaign on government not working. Both liberals and conservatives essentially exist to "solve" problems that they themselves create. Ideologues on both sides are parasites sucking vitality out of the system in order to sustain and empower themselves.

When viewed as the illnesses they are, liberalism and conservatism resemble viruses. Their goal isn't prosperity, balance or stability. It is to spread, multiply and overrun the organism until it dies.

This is why - as I painfully learned in 2016 - you can't partner with a virus.

But if you said the Hillary campaign couldn't have sabotaged Bernie's campaign, then there would be no way the Bernie campaign could sabotage the Clinton campaign. Unless you have double standards. That's the key thing in all this really, the double standards. Turning a blind eye to one thing done against the opponent but when the opponent does something even less severe you would call him out on it, whether the Progressives the the Republicans or the Russians. You won't win any votes while having double standards, that is the lesson for you here. If by next election you can become more fair then perhaps you may actually win. But if you keep coping with the attitude that you don't need us, that we are a virus just because you aren't willing to compromise with us yet still feel entitled to having our votes, that you said Sanders don't deserve a second-place trophy for not winning the primary, that we don't deserve any progressive concessions, that we should only vote for Hillary because of Trump because you aren't going to give us anything, and now try to take it all back by saying you were willing to partner with us now after you had lost, then guess what... we don't need you either. Progressives are the future, millennials are born every year and by next election 4 years of millennials will become voting age. It's a downhill battle for us. For you, it's a losing battle. But four years is a long time, plenty of time to change your attitude but never too late to start. It's better to leave this world happy.

Since Sanders failed to get the nomination and did not run a general election campaign, Clinton would have had no opportunity to sabotage it.

Clinton DID have such an opportunity in 2008 with Obama when she was the one who lost the nomination. But instead of acting like Sanders, she behaved quite honorably. Though she was almost even with Obama in the popular vote (as opposed to Sanders who was far behind), she graciously capitulated within days (as opposed to Sanders who threatened a useless convention fight and petulantly took a month after the last primary to back Clinton.

When Clinton lost to the liberal candidate, she expected no concessions, was cooperative and did what she was supposed to immediately encouraging the same from her backers. By contrast, Sanders had spent months revving up baseless conspiracy theories about the DNC as part of a personal vendetta against its goofy, hapless chairwoman, Debbie Downer. He eventually got Debbie's head on a platter - and Donald Trump in the White House.

I sure hope it was worth it. No doubt Bernie will spend many a long, cold Vermont night pondering that question in the years to come. If he's honest, I don't envy his conclusions.

And you can knock off the revisionist history. I have long been all for compromising with liberals and that I would even support their candidate just as I did in 2008. I said this loud and clear from day one and would have done for Sanders what I did for Obama.

But those days are gone. Eff the progressive movement and the horse it rode in on. Liberals have no intention of paying the same respect to centrist Democrats that centrists like me were willing to pay them. You are spoiled, self-centered brats who cannot accept the outcome of any process that doesn't benefit you and you are happy to undermine the will of the people and undercut democratic structures anytime your candidate loses. You are absolutists incapable of compromise, impenetrable to logic and so full of yourselves there is no room for anyone else.

I wish you many happy years of Trumpism. You wanted them, you got them. You and the Donald's backers deserve each other. You have far more in common then either of you realize. You are both grounded in hatred and grievance, both intolerant of all dissent and - best of all - you are both being taken advantage of by the same ridiculous charlatan. What better foundation could one want for a relationship?

There you go again turning the blind eye as I said, claiming that there was nothing Clinton or the DNC did to sabotage the Sanders campaign in the primary, that it was just a conspiracy despite Debbie Wasserman stepping down for it and you blaming the Russians for revealing "illegal and inappropriate" content. You are so full of crap and we can all see right through that. You go on and on in denial despite concrete evidence right in front of us and you still blatantly lie that there ever was a DNC plot against Sanders while at the same time you blame Russia and Wikileaks for revealing the evidence. That is oxymoronic, which is nothing new for you. There is plenty of evidence that DNC screwed Bernie over and we have had this discussion numerous times and yet you still lie and deny it. Your reputation here is in tatters and this is how you fail at getting votes.

You are right about me being unable to compromise with the likes of you for the reason that there is no way to compromise with you. I'm not making any "revisionist history" as you claim... you really said that Sanders supporters don't deserve concessions or second place trophies or anything. You really said that and I can dig posts up for you stating that. You just want us to vote for Hillary or else we would get Trump. You are so into the establishment that you forgot about the little people. Me personally, Clinton and Trump are the same. If Trump hadn't won I'm pretty sure I would be complaining about a Clinton presidency instead of a Trump presidency. It is no difference to me.

But that's alright because maybe you've adopted the nihilistic outlook on life like CT and say "Meh whatever, I can't win so let's keep losing" ever since you came back from your butthurt-induced timeout in a safe zone. Maybe you really are done, and are now unable to post anything constructive for the future. That's alright, people like you and CT will be in the grave soon, never to see happiness in your life from this moment onward, and die under a conservative presidency. Well good riddance, just hurry with the moping and doom and gloom so the rest of us can get on with discussion something constructive, something you haven't done in the last 2 years. Your time is pretty much up. Clinton was maybe the last chance for you to get your way one last time and your lifetime and you lost that without our help and now you're just bitter. Our time is just beginning.
We believe only what we want to believe.
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nNeo

Protip: political movements don't become more successful by "getting rid of ___". That's doubly true when you're trying to get rid of much of your actual power and funding.
“Strong people don’t need strong leaders.”
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Eddo26
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nNeo
Feb 1 2017, 01:25 AM
Protip: political movements don't become more successful by "getting rid of ___". That's doubly true when you're trying to get rid of much of your actual power and funding.
Funding should come from taxpayers only and not special interests groups lobbying to invest in themselves only. Power comes from votes and we the people have the votes. As you can see, your establishment is pretty powerless without our votes. We don't need anything from it.
Edited by Eddo26, Feb 1 2017, 01:31 AM.
We believe only what we want to believe.
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nNeo

Eddo36
Feb 1 2017, 01:16 AM
You are so into the establishment that you forgot about the little people. Me personally, Clinton and Trump are the same. If Trump hadn't won I'm pretty sure I would be complaining about a Clinton presidency instead of a Trump presidency. It is no difference to me.
Then you are spectacularly oblivious of issues and policy. They are nothing alike. The "little people" are going to get hosed on a whole new level.
“Strong people don’t need strong leaders.”
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Eddo26
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nNeo
Feb 1 2017, 01:31 AM
Eddo36
Feb 1 2017, 01:16 AM
You are so into the establishment that you forgot about the little people. Me personally, Clinton and Trump are the same. If Trump hadn't won I'm pretty sure I would be complaining about a Clinton presidency instead of a Trump presidency. It is no difference to me.
Then you are spectacularly oblivious of issues and policy. They are nothing alike. The "little people" are going to get hosed on a whole new level.
If it was Clinton, we'd be having a nuclear war with Russia right about now or at least deep into Cold War II. I consider averting that a win.
We believe only what we want to believe.
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Harambe4Trump
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Eddo36
Feb 1 2017, 01:32 AM
nNeo
Feb 1 2017, 01:31 AM
Eddo36
Feb 1 2017, 01:16 AM
You are so into the establishment that you forgot about the little people. Me personally, Clinton and Trump are the same. If Trump hadn't won I'm pretty sure I would be complaining about a Clinton presidency instead of a Trump presidency. It is no difference to me.
Then you are spectacularly oblivious of issues and policy. They are nothing alike. The "little people" are going to get hosed on a whole new level.
If it was Clinton, we'd be having a nuclear war with Russia right about now or at least deep into Cold War II. I consider averting that a win.
TPP would be a go as well.
Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary.
#MAGA
#wallsnotwars
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nNeo

Eddo36
Feb 1 2017, 01:29 AM
As you can see, your establishment is pretty powerless without our votes. We don't need anything from it.
Of course you do. The "establishment" is largely a specter. It's what the fringes call whoever they perceive to have power. If your guy had won, he'd be the "establishment" and likely as not, you'd soon be kvetching about him not doing what you want. In a nation this size, getting a majority isn't easy. and almost always involves some compromise with people you don't entirely agree with. Effective governance, for us old fogies who dimly remember it, requires even more.
“Strong people don’t need strong leaders.”
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nNeo

Eddo36
Feb 1 2017, 01:32 AM
If it was Clinton, we'd be having a nuclear war with Russia right about now or at least deep into Cold War II.
Nonsense
“Strong people don’t need strong leaders.”
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Eddo26
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Harambe4Trump
Feb 1 2017, 01:33 AM
Eddo36
Feb 1 2017, 01:32 AM
nNeo
Feb 1 2017, 01:31 AM
Eddo36
Feb 1 2017, 01:16 AM
You are so into the establishment that you forgot about the little people. Me personally, Clinton and Trump are the same. If Trump hadn't won I'm pretty sure I would be complaining about a Clinton presidency instead of a Trump presidency. It is no difference to me.
Then you are spectacularly oblivious of issues and policy. They are nothing alike. The "little people" are going to get hosed on a whole new level.
If it was Clinton, we'd be having a nuclear war with Russia right about now or at least deep into Cold War II. I consider averting that a win.
TPP would be a go as well.
Correct and 5 year lobbying ban on political appointees. I don't agree with most of the thing Trump does but I'm going to be fair and point out the good things rather than become a partisan zombie like so many others.
We believe only what we want to believe.
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Eddo26
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nNeo
Feb 1 2017, 01:35 AM
Eddo36
Feb 1 2017, 01:29 AM
As you can see, your establishment is pretty powerless without our votes. We don't need anything from it.
Of course you do. The "establishment" is largely a specter. It's what the fringes call whoever they perceive to have power. If your guy had won, he'd be the "establishment" and likely as not, you'd soon be kvetching about him not doing what you want. In a nation this size, getting a majority isn't easy. and almost always involves some compromise with people you don't entirely agree with. Effective governance, for us old fogies who dimly remember it, requires even more.
You just try to extort us by the 2 party system to avoid the "lesser evil", and you think you can do what you want just because the other party is more evil. Well the whole system can be shoved. We won't fall for it. I don't vote for any evil I see, not Trump and not Hillary. You find something we can agree with to bring to the table and then maybe you would have my vote. Until then, I am not on your side and you are not entitled to my vote.
We believe only what we want to believe.
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Harambe4Trump
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nNeo
Feb 1 2017, 01:35 AM
Eddo36
Feb 1 2017, 01:32 AM
If it was Clinton, we'd be having a nuclear war with Russia right about now or at least deep into Cold War II.
Nonsense
We wouldn't be supporting the Brexit and we would be importing Syrian and Somali refugees which have proven a security threat.
Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary.
#MAGA
#wallsnotwars
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Eddo26
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nNeo
Feb 1 2017, 01:35 AM
Eddo36
Feb 1 2017, 01:32 AM
If it was Clinton, we'd be having a nuclear war with Russia right about now or at least deep into Cold War II.
Nonsense
Nonsense? You want to be allies with Russia right now and make ties with them? No? didn't think so.
We believe only what we want to believe.
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nNeo

Eddo36
Feb 1 2017, 01:38 AM
You just try to extort us by the 2 party system to avoid the "lesser evil", and you think you can do what you want just because the other party is more evil. Well the whole system can be shoved. We won't fall for it. I don't vote for any evil I see, not Trump and not Hillary. You find something we can agree with to bring to the table and then maybe you would have my vote. Until then, I am not on your side and you are not entitled to my vote.
That's the system we have. I'd be happy to see it change, but until it does, we get "A or B" and that often means settling for the one who sucks slightly less. If you are intent to hold out for exactly what you want, you're usually going to lose.
“Strong people don’t need strong leaders.”
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nNeo

Eddo36
Feb 1 2017, 01:42 AM
You want to be allies with Russia right now and make ties with them?
It's not about me ;)
“Strong people don’t need strong leaders.”
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Eddo26
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nNeo
Feb 1 2017, 01:44 AM
Eddo36
Feb 1 2017, 01:38 AM
You just try to extort us by the 2 party system to avoid the "lesser evil", and you think you can do what you want just because the other party is more evil. Well the whole system can be shoved. We won't fall for it. I don't vote for any evil I see, not Trump and not Hillary. You find something we can agree with to bring to the table and then maybe you would have my vote. Until then, I am not on your side and you are not entitled to my vote.
That's the system we have. I'd be happy to see it change, but until it does, we get "A or B" and that often means settling for the one who sucks slightly less. If you are intent to hold out for exactly what you want, you're usually going to lose.
And this is how change gets done. You'll see changes in the DNC because of your loss and maybe elect Ellison as head of DNC in a month. If it doesn't change then it will lose again until it changes. And millennials are born every day, change will happen eventually. 4 years of millennials voting next election. The question is, you want this change to be easy or do you want this change to be hard?
We believe only what we want to believe.
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nNeo

Eddo36
Feb 1 2017, 01:47 AM
And this is how change gets done.
It changes nothing. We still have a two party system.
“Strong people don’t need strong leaders.”
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Eddo26
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nNeo
Feb 1 2017, 01:51 AM
Eddo36
Feb 1 2017, 01:47 AM
And this is how change gets done.
It changes nothing. We still have a two party system.
But a more progressive one, rather than the current centrist one and a republican one where we can be fully represented.
We believe only what we want to believe.
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nNeo

Eddo36
Feb 1 2017, 01:53 AM
But a more progressive one, rather than the current centrist one and a republican one where we can be fully represented.
Where you can be more represented, not "we". What you'd gain on the left, you'd more than lose in the center.
“Strong people don’t need strong leaders.”
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Eddo26
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nNeo
Feb 1 2017, 02:30 AM
Eddo36
Feb 1 2017, 01:53 AM
But a more progressive one, rather than the current centrist one and a republican one where we can be fully represented.
Where you can be more represented, not "we". What you'd gain on the left, you'd more than lose in the center.
The center has nothing we want anyways, hence why we didn't vote for your candidate.
We believe only what we want to believe.
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nNeo

Eddo36
Feb 1 2017, 02:34 AM
The center has nothing we want anyways
Without it you can't win.
“Strong people don’t need strong leaders.”
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