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US changes its policy on Assad staying in power
Topic Started: Apr 1 2017, 10:02 PM (723 Views)
Robertr2000
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70-101
Apr 2 2017, 09:02 AM
Siberian
Apr 2 2017, 06:38 AM
CautionaryTales
Apr 2 2017, 04:25 AM
Whatever Putin tells Trump to do....
I just wonder how you view US options in Syria, what you personally would prefer (to minimize the losses) if you were a US president? :)
That's an easy one.

The U.S. has no options in Syria, none that are worth pursuing anyway. America invasion of Iraq was the single biggest foreign policy mistake in our nation's history, it was much worse than President Eisenhower getting us involved in Vietnam, then President Johnson and Nixon lying to make sure we stay there -until America could no longer afford the war.

What Bush and Cheney did in Iraq with overthrowing Saddam was and will likely remain Americans greatest foreign policy mistake in our nation's history because Saddam's death destabilized the entire region.

Now Trump, in his infinite wisdom, wishes to compound Bush's mistake by thinking he can stabilize the middle-east by advancing Russian
interests.

Obama was elected president because he was the political opposite of Bush, and he voted against in invasion of Iraq, these two facts alone propelled him to the presidency.

America wants out of the middle-east, but apparently, Trump has other ideas.

And he too is making a huge mistake, that he will live to regret.
"Obama was elected president because he was the political opposite of Bush" - That's why I voted for Obama in 08. Clearly Obama was the greatest liar in US Presidential history!

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Edited by Robertr2000, Apr 2 2017, 02:10 PM.
"if that **** wins we'll all hang from nooses"
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StillCrazy1
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!!!!
Drudge X
Apr 1 2017, 11:02 PM
Leftists call for non-interventionist policy and Trump is doing exactly what they want.

Why are leftists behaving like infants?
They want the non intervention where you remove troops, not send more in
Ever notice the only 2 people Trump refuses to speak ill of are Stormy Daniels and Vladimir Putin?
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grannyhawkins
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I say that big talk's worth doodly-squat
While I'm against more troops, I do understand that the Donald and the USA wants to crush isis an they need ta be crushed, but don't pull an usurpin moozlum-pantsuit and handcuff our men an women in arms, allow them ta take the gloves completely off!!!

I've said for years, I'd arm the hail outta the Kurds, give em anything they need, let em kill everthang an let mohammed sort em out and let em run the whole durn shootin match when it's over!!! Why we still have their loyalty after Uncle Sam bendin em over for generations, is beyond me, but that's how I'd hannel it!!!
Endeavor to Persevere!!!
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Robert Stout
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grannyhawkins
Apr 2 2017, 05:26 PM
While I'm against more troops, I do understand that the Donald and the USA wants to crush isis an they need ta be crushed, but don't pull an usurpin moozlum-pantsuit and handcuff our men an women in arms, allow them ta take the gloves completely off!!!

I've said for years, I'd arm the hail outta the Kurds, give em anything they need, let em kill everthang an let mohammed sort em out and let em run the whole durn shootin match when it's over!!! Why we still have their loyalty after Uncle Sam bendin em over for generations, is beyond me, but that's how I'd hannel it!!!
No need to rely on others...Dropping a few surplus tactical nukes will send ISIS running to the mosque to pray for Allah.............. :pray:
Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid
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Siberian
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Out of the Middle East immediately makes the US a (North American) regional power with vacuum in the ME immediately filled by China, since Saudis already sell most of their oil to China so their alliance with China is already more natural than one with the US, just Saudis so far think that the US may guarantee their security from Iran, which otherwise will destroy Saudis both from within (Shias in Saudia, Bahrain, Yemen). If oil starts to be traded in Yuans it immediately starts avalanche of devaluation of dollar with consequent and simultaneous hyperinflation of dollars.
I describe it as something fast just to make it more visable, of course it will take some time to eliminate inertia, but consequence of events will be like I said.
Besides, the US is a slave of Israel and Israel will never allow you to withdraw, since, as I said, vacuum will be filled by China against Iran or China (which is global competitor to Jews' controlled West) in alliance with Iran. Russia cannot fill it, we're not that strong compared to the USSR and frankly saying if not Western advance in Ukraine and possible conflict with NATO - would hardly need any Syria. And Israel would rather welcome Russia in Syria than China since putin serves Jews not less than the US does.
We're for temporary reasons there, while for Iran it's existential battle and Syria defines who will win - Iran or Saydia+Israel. For Israel stakes are smaller in short term since Assad is its enemy but Syria after civil war and partitioned to several entities will not pose a great threat. But still...
So, as I said, having destabilized the region the US cannot withdraw without greatest losses which potentially can destroy you, like Soviet withdrawal from Eastern Germany started avalanche of soft revolutions in Warsaw pact countries and led to desintegration of the USSR.
All I say may happen or may not but the precedent exists.
Edited by Siberian, Apr 2 2017, 08:44 PM.
Goood morning GULAG!!!
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Robert Stout
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Siberian
Apr 2 2017, 08:37 PM
Out of the Middle East immediately makes the US a (North American) regional power with vacuum in the ME immediately filled by China, since Saudis already sell most of their oil to China so their alliance with China is already more natural than one with the US, just Saudis so far think that the US may guarantee their security from Iran, which otherwise will destroy Saudis both from within (Shias in Saudia, Bahrain, Yemen). If oil starts to be traded in Yuans it immediately starts avalanche of devaluation of dollar with consequent and simultaneous hyperinflation of dollars.
I describe it as something fast just to make it more visable, of course it will take some time to eliminate inertia, but consequence of events will be like I said.
Besides, the US is a slave of Israel and Israel will never allow you to withdraw, since, as I said, vacuum will be filled by China against Iran or China (which is global competitor to Jews' controlled West) in alliance with Iran. Russia cannot fill it, we're not that strong compared to the USSR and frankly saying if not Western advance in Ukraine and possible conflict with NATO - would hardly need any Syria. And Israel would rather welcome Russia in Syria than China since putin serves Jews not less than the US does.
We're for temporary reasons there, while for Iran it's existential battle and Syria defines who will win - Iran or Saydia+Israel. For Israel stakes are smaller in short term since Assad is its enemy but Syria after civil war and partitioned to several entities will not pose a great threat. But still...
So, as I said, having destabilized the region the US cannot withdraw without greatest losses which potentially can destroy you, like Soviet withdrawal from Eastern Germany started avalanche of soft revolutions in Warsaw pact countries and led to desintegration of the USSR.
All I say may happen or may not but the precedent exists.
This Confucian analysis is inscrutable....Lay off the vodka........... :confused:
Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid
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Siberian
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OK, I'll explain more thoroughly. :)
In Syria it's mostly Sunni-Shia war, mostlly of Sunni: Saudi Arabia (Sunni Arab Gulf states + ISIS, to some extent Turkey, + to less extent USA) vs. Iran (+ Assad+ Lebanese Shia Hizballah + Iraqi Shia+Afghan Shia + to some extent Palestinians + to less extent Russia). For Iran it's an existential war, if it loses Syria to Sunnis - Lebaneze Hizballah and Palestinian Hamas are cut and destroyed or marginalized, Iran's influence shrinks, while political weight means much if we remember Western sanctions against Iran. If Iran controls half of the Middle East - it's much more favourable environment, let alone Persia must be great again! :) . If Iran wins Syria it shift its efforts to getting control over oil rich Shia privinces of Saudia, Bahrain where majority of population is Shia, Yemen, where there's civil war between Shia Iran-supported Houthi rebels and Saudi installed Sunni president (and Sunni Southern Yemen). Saudia also participates in Yemeni civil war, so there's actually mini WWIII going in the Middle East, taking in account of scale and number of participants.
Russia got involved in Syria mostly to put the US at the table of negotiations after Crimea, as you remember there were attempts of boycott :), so this task was successfully achieved by Putin, though in smaller scale than he may wish. Russian milirary bases are unexpected bonus, which is pleasant anyway, though may be useful only if there's big war between Russia and NATO, otherwise I doubt there can be any use of them, we don't have much interests in the Middle East.
The US was first indoctrinated to "spread democracy aka destabilization, then Assad has always been an enemy of Israel and thus the US, again - Iran's influence - so the US as usually preferred short term goals, raising ISIS as a tool to remove Assad until ISIS got out of control, as Al-Qaida before.
Israel opposed Assad, but having ISIS as a neighbour is hardly a better perspective, as well Russia, having S-300 and 400 in Syria, does not oppose Israeli multiple strikes on Hisballah arms deposits there, so for Israel Russian presence in Syria is quite welcomed since if not Russia Assad would have to solely rely on Iran and it's much worse an option for Israel.
So, I hope you see that for Saudia it's a matter of survival not to give Syria to hands of Iran. Saudis buy US arms for tens of billions and trade oil in US dollars, even if most ME oil goes not to the US. If the US allowes Iran to win in Syria it questions US obligations to Saudia, what is the US needed for if so? Saudia will seek new master.
So, the US must not only participate in Syrian war, but to take all provinces adjasent to Iraq, otherwise flow of arms from Iran to Lebanon and Palestine will never stop. Kurds cannot do it - Turkey has already almost left US led allience, if they take more areas under control - Turkey will shift to Assad's side. As well Iraq, semi-controlled by the US - will be even more anti-American.
So, the war must become more fierce... :)
Edited by Siberian, Apr 3 2017, 06:42 AM.
Goood morning GULAG!!!
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Siberian
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So, as I hope, you can see Saudia may search for new masters if the US fails to guarantee its interests. If the US demonstrates it fails - all other alies will lose trust to the US, and if China wishes - it can take at least half of them, except Japan, Israel and some parts of Europe maybe.
As well China is already the biggest World economy, since 2016 it is the biggest World exporter. Yuan has inadequately low presence in the World trade and financial markets due to certain inertia and share of US allies preferring US currency. The EU is collapsing, so, if oil producers shift their trade to Yuan - it will just destroy the Dollar.
Edited by Siberian, Apr 3 2017, 07:14 AM.
Goood morning GULAG!!!
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grannyhawkins
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I say that big talk's worth doodly-squat
Siberian
Apr 2 2017, 03:19 AM
70-101
Apr 1 2017, 10:46 PM
grannyhawkins
Apr 1 2017, 10:39 PM
70-101
Apr 1 2017, 10:34 PM
grannyhawkins
Apr 1 2017, 10:19 PM
Did it ever make sense ta oust an elected secular in exchange fur jihadists???
Does it make sense for Trump to be moving thousands of additional U.S. troops to the middle-east?
I'm not liken it atall, but the Donald did campaign on more of a non interventionist and I'm not fully up ta speed on all the goins on, that's why I posted this.
Trump is slowly moving airborne and Special Forces troops from Pope AFB located at Ft. Bragg and flying them to Syria in groups of a few hundred at a time in an attempt not to arouse the media.

Trump likely wants Assad to remain in power so Putin can continue operating his naval forces out of the Syrian port of Tartus. Which is critical to Moscow's middle-eastern naval forces because it's a deep water port, and a Russian repair resupply facility.
The US made a wrong choice, having supported juhadists during "Arab spring". Now not only Russia expanded its presence in Syria, for decades in the future, having acquired 2 bases, a full scale navall obe instead of just resupply port and an aircraft one. These bases are to stay whatever happens with Syria, even if it breaks up to pieces. If not Obama support to jihadists it could never happen.
Now the only chance for the US not to be kicked out of play is to suppprt one of players - the stake on jihadists failed, now the US supports kurds, which may be a substantial force but it solidifies the US role as the main destabilization factor in the MEast. Now (a NATO member :lol: )Turkey, Iraq (still ocuppied by the US :lol: ) and Syria all unite to counter the US plans to create a Kurdish state. But it's, being the worst option for the US, because it creates an anti-US alliance and pushes it to seek Russian support, but still it's the only and last chance for the US to participate in decision making in Syria. So, Trump is just correcting Obama's grave mistakes.. :lol:
Have ta say, even though I'm not totally up ta speed on all the goings on and I've read your following posts, I agree with this one for sure and the others seem to make a lot of sense. At least in my mind, you have a pretty good handle on the whole game of "Risk"!!!

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Endeavor to Persevere!!!
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Che On The Rocks

Scores reported killed in gas attack on Syrian rebel area
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A suspected Syrian government chemical attack killed scores of people, including children, in the northwestern province of Idlib on Tuesday, a monitoring group, medics and rescue workers in the rebel-held area said.

The U.S. government believes the chemical agent sarin was used in the attack, a U.S. government source said, adding it was "almost certainly" carried out by forces loyal to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

The Syrian military denied responsibility and said it would never use chemical weapons, echoing denials it has made over the course of the more than six-year Syrian civil war that has killed hundreds of thousands, created the world's worst refugee crisis and drawn in nations such as Russia, Iran and the United States.

The United States, Britain and France on Tuesday proposed a United Nations Security Council resolution condemning the attack, which they have blamed on Assad's forces. Diplomats said the resolution would likely be put to a vote on Wednesday.
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A man carries the body of a dead child, after what rescue workers described as a suspected gas attack in the town of Khan Sheikhoun in rebel-held Idlib, Syria April 4, 2017. REUTERS/Ammar Abdullah

Trump blames Assad for deadly chemical attack in Syria, U.S. under pressure
Quote:
 
U.S. President Donald Trump on Tuesday condemned a Syrian chemical weapons attack that killed dozens and blamed Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, but did not say how he would respond despite calls from France for stronger U.S. leadership.

Trump said the attack in Syria's Idlib province was "reprehensible and cannot be ignored by the civilized world," although he also sought to blame his predecessor, Barack Obama.
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A man breathes through an oxygen mask as another one receives treatments, after what rescue workers described as a suspected gas attack in the town of Khan Sheikhoun in rebel-held Idlib, Syria April 4, 2017. REUTERS/Ammar Abdullah

Syria chemical 'attack': Russia blames rebel weapons
Quote:
 
Russia says that chemical gas that killed and injured dozens of civilians in a rebel-held town in northern Syria came from rebel weapons on the ground.

Its defence ministry acknowledged that Syrian planes had attacked the town of Khan Sheikhoun in Idlib province.

But it said the aircraft had struck a depot producing mines filled with a poisonous substance, for use in Iraq.

The US and others said Syrian planes had dropped chemical weapons, which Damascus denied.
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Witnesses said clinics treating the wounded were subject to air strikes
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Che On The Rocks

Russia denies Assad to blame for chemical attack, on course for collision with Trump
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Russia suggested on Wednesday it would publicly stand by Syrian President Bashar al-Assad despite outrage over a chemical weapons attack, setting Donald Trump's new U.S. administration on course for a head-on diplomatic collision with Moscow.
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A crater is seen at the site of an airstrike, after what rescue workers described as a suspected gas attack in the town of Khan Sheikhoun in rebel-held Idlib, Syria April 4, 2017. REUTERS/Ammar Abdullah
Free Milagro Sala!
What happened to Santiago Maldonado?
What happened to ARA San Juan?
Mapuche Lives Matter!
Stop the political persecution in Argentina!
Stop the looting of Argentina!
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