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Evidence Thread
Topic Started: Jul 11 2017, 10:42 AM (1,182 Views)
estonianman
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As you know - many claims are coming from the left regarding wrongdoing by the Trump campaign and his presidency. All of this requires evidence, and an actual crime - which in my opinion has yet to be stated. Buckfan compiled a list yesterday which yet again - lacked any supporting evidence. Don't waste my time with "but muh' Mueller will eventually ..." - you don't even know what he is investigating and Trump is innocent until proven guilty, that's how it works.

Let's start in the very beginning shall we? With the fecking server - the one that was allegedly hacked by the Russians to help Donald Trump

Provide evidence that the DNC server was in fact hacked. The FBI was denied access so the root of this accusation is based on word of mouth - from Podesta mostly who changed his story more than a "choose your adventure book"

Please list it here -
Edited by estonianman, Jul 11 2017, 10:43 AM.
MEEK AND MILD
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estonianman
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Just in case anyone is confused - we are asking for direct evidence that the DNC server was hacked.

This thread isn't about muh' Russian collusion or obstruction of justice. It isn't about Mueller and anti-Trump fantasies of what he will find.

If you can't state any evidence then you basically admit that the entire anti-Trump agenda is predicated on a lie.
MEEK AND MILD
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philly rabbit

They know the whole thing is a lie. The strategy is disruption and it's all driven by sheer hate.
Proud Deplorable.
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CautionaryTales
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philly rabbit
Jul 11 2017, 12:57 PM
They know the whole thing is a lie. The strategy is disruption and it's all driven by sheer hate.
Trump jr confessed...didn't mean to...but he confessed..
Now it's up to the authorities to decide if they are Americans first or traitors.


Have you paid your internet taxes?
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BuckFan

estonianman
Jul 11 2017, 10:42 AM
As you know - many claims are coming from the left regarding wrongdoing by the Trump campaign and his presidency. All of this requires evidence, and an actual crime - which in my opinion has yet to be stated. Buckfan compiled a list yesterday which yet again - lacked any supporting evidence. Don't waste my time with "but muh' Mueller will eventually ..." - you don't even know what he is investigating and Trump is innocent until proven guilty, that's how it works.

Let's start in the very beginning shall we? With the fecking server - the one that was allegedly hacked by the Russians to help Donald Trump

Provide evidence that the DNC server was in fact hacked. The FBI was denied access so the root of this accusation is based on word of mouth - from Podesta mostly who changed his story more than a "choose your adventure book"

Please list it here -
The FBI and the CIA were given technical data from the server. This data satisfied their experts enough that they decided they did not need access to the server to conclude the Russians were behind the hacking.

For anyone else interested here is a good summary:

https://www.cnet.com/news/how-experts-decided-russia-hacked-dnc-election/

Esto is like the conspiracy nuts that still think the moon landing was a hoax. There can never be enough evidence or explanation to convince him the Russians were behind it. Even though the GOP leadership and even now Trump accept this answer Esto will not give up.
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estonianman
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BuckFan
Jul 11 2017, 03:05 PM
estonianman
Jul 11 2017, 10:42 AM
As you know - many claims are coming from the left regarding wrongdoing by the Trump campaign and his presidency. All of this requires evidence, and an actual crime - which in my opinion has yet to be stated. Buckfan compiled a list yesterday which yet again - lacked any supporting evidence. Don't waste my time with "but muh' Mueller will eventually ..." - you don't even know what he is investigating and Trump is innocent until proven guilty, that's how it works.

Let's start in the very beginning shall we? With the fecking server - the one that was allegedly hacked by the Russians to help Donald Trump

Provide evidence that the DNC server was in fact hacked. The FBI was denied access so the root of this accusation is based on word of mouth - from Podesta mostly who changed his story more than a "choose your adventure book"

Please list it here -
The FBI and the CIA were given technical data from the server. This data satisfied their experts enough that they decided they did not need access to the server to conclude the Russians were behind the hacking.

For anyone else interested here is a good summary:

https://www.cnet.com/news/how-experts-decided-russia-hacked-dnc-election/

Esto is like the conspiracy nuts that still think the moon landing was a hoax. There can never be enough evidence or explanation to convince him the Russians were behind it. Even though the GOP leadership and even now Trump accept this answer Esto will not give up.
Crowdstrike has been debunked.

A. The are for profit and have an incentive to drum up fear over hacking

B. They never made a connection to Russia, your link has no evidence to the contrary

If it was the Russians, why did the DNC refuse access to FBI investigators?

More and more it appears that it is the democrats and Clinton apologists that are hiding their guilt behind wild conspiracy theories and "reds under the bed" bulls**t.
Edited by estonianman, Jul 11 2017, 04:38 PM.
MEEK AND MILD
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Deleted User
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I'm not aware that anyone from the intelligence community, the justice department or the Congress are members here, so until they're ready to reveal what they have, your cute little weak attempt at a 'gotcha' will go unresponded to.
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estonianman
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wilmywood8455
Jul 11 2017, 05:09 PM
I'm not aware that anyone from the intelligence community, the justice department or the Congress are members here, so until they're ready to reveal what they have, your cute little weak attempt at a 'gotcha' will go unresponded to.
Thank you for admitting what others cannot - there is no evidence that the Russians hacked the DNC server OVER A YEAR AGO.

MEEK AND MILD
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estonianman
Jul 11 2017, 05:12 PM
wilmywood8455
Jul 11 2017, 05:09 PM
I'm not aware that anyone from the intelligence community, the justice department or the Congress are members here, so until they're ready to reveal what they have, your cute little weak attempt at a 'gotcha' will go unresponded to.
Thank you for admitting what others cannot - there is no evidence that the Russians hacked the DNC server OVER A YEAR AGO.
I did not do that, and I'll thank you to not put words in my mouth. My post was quite clear, and attempting to prostitute it to bolster your so-called arguments is weak at best.

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estonianman
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wilmywood8455
Jul 11 2017, 05:14 PM
estonianman
Jul 11 2017, 05:12 PM
wilmywood8455
Jul 11 2017, 05:09 PM
I'm not aware that anyone from the intelligence community, the justice department or the Congress are members here, so until they're ready to reveal what they have, your cute little weak attempt at a 'gotcha' will go unresponded to.
Thank you for admitting what others cannot - there is no evidence that the Russians hacked the DNC server OVER A YEAR AGO.
I did not do that, and I'll thank you to not put words in my mouth. My post was quite clear, and attempting to prostitute it to bolster your so-called arguments is weak at best.

Your post was essentially "we'll see what happens". All I asked was for one shred of evidence to substantiate what this entire scandal is predicated on - you admitted it doesn't exist yet.

Let me change the question for you - if it is found that the Russians didn't hack the DNC server - would you consider that significant?
MEEK AND MILD
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jake58

BuckFan
Jul 11 2017, 03:05 PM
estonianman
Jul 11 2017, 10:42 AM
As you know - many claims are coming from the left regarding wrongdoing by the Trump campaign and his presidency. All of this requires evidence, and an actual crime - which in my opinion has yet to be stated. Buckfan compiled a list yesterday which yet again - lacked any supporting evidence. Don't waste my time with "but muh' Mueller will eventually ..." - you don't even know what he is investigating and Trump is innocent until proven guilty, that's how it works.

Let's start in the very beginning shall we? With the fecking server - the one that was allegedly hacked by the Russians to help Donald Trump

Provide evidence that the DNC server was in fact hacked. The FBI was denied access so the root of this accusation is based on word of mouth - from Podesta mostly who changed his story more than a "choose your adventure book"

Please list it here -
The FBI and the CIA were given technical data from the server. This data satisfied their experts enough that they decided they did not need access to the server to conclude the Russians were behind the hacking.

For anyone else interested here is a good summary:

https://www.cnet.com/news/how-experts-decided-russia-hacked-dnc-election/

Esto is like the conspiracy nuts that still think the moon landing was a hoax. There can never be enough evidence or explanation to convince him the Russians were behind it. Even though the GOP leadership and even now Trump accept this answer Esto will not give up.
If anyone wants to see why buck is full of tosh...

An influential British think tank and Ukraine’s military are disputing a report that the U.S. cybersecurity firm CrowdStrike has used to buttress its claims of Russian hacking in the presidential election.

The CrowdStrike report, released in December, asserted that Russians hacked into a Ukrainian artillery app, resulting in heavy losses of howitzers in Ukraine’s war with Russian-backed separatists.

But the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS) told VOA that CrowdStrike erroneously used IISS data as proof of the intrusion. IISS disavowed any connection to the CrowdStrike report. Ukraine’s Ministry of Defense also has claimed combat losses and hacking never happened.

The challenges to CrowdStrike’s credibility are significant because the firm was the first to link last year’s hacks of Democratic Party computers to Russian actors, and because CrowdStrike co-founder Dimiti Alperovitch has trumpeted its Ukraine report as more evidence of Russian election tampering.



https://www.voanews.com/a/crowdstrike-comey-russia-hack-dnc-clinton-trump/3776067.html
That which can be asserted without evidence; can be dismissed without evidence- Christopher Hitchens
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estonianman
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boom.

So Buckfan strikes out - anyone else? This is what started everything and you lack evidence.

Not good.
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estonianman
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Day 2 - we still have no evidence presented that the DNC server was even hacked.

Let me remind everyone reading this that the entire DNC theory of Russian collusion is predicated on this one incident.
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estonianman
Jul 11 2017, 05:17 PM
wilmywood8455
Jul 11 2017, 05:14 PM
estonianman
Jul 11 2017, 05:12 PM
wilmywood8455
Jul 11 2017, 05:09 PM
I'm not aware that anyone from the intelligence community, the justice department or the Congress are members here, so until they're ready to reveal what they have, your cute little weak attempt at a 'gotcha' will go unresponded to.
Thank you for admitting what others cannot - there is no evidence that the Russians hacked the DNC server OVER A YEAR AGO.
I did not do that, and I'll thank you to not put words in my mouth. My post was quite clear, and attempting to prostitute it to bolster your so-called arguments is weak at best.

Your post was essentially "we'll see what happens". All I asked was for one shred of evidence to substantiate what this entire scandal is predicated on - you admitted it doesn't exist yet.

Let me change the question for you - if it is found that the Russians didn't hack the DNC server - would you consider that significant?
No. that has zero to do with Trump's obstruction and JRs meeting for dirt on HRC, where he expected to receive something of value, evidence damaging to her.

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estonianman
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wilmywood8455
Jul 12 2017, 04:56 PM
estonianman
Jul 11 2017, 05:17 PM
wilmywood8455
Jul 11 2017, 05:14 PM
estonianman
Jul 11 2017, 05:12 PM
wilmywood8455
Jul 11 2017, 05:09 PM
I'm not aware that anyone from the intelligence community, the justice department or the Congress are members here, so until they're ready to reveal what they have, your cute little weak attempt at a 'gotcha' will go unresponded to.
Thank you for admitting what others cannot - there is no evidence that the Russians hacked the DNC server OVER A YEAR AGO.
I did not do that, and I'll thank you to not put words in my mouth. My post was quite clear, and attempting to prostitute it to bolster your so-called arguments is weak at best.

Your post was essentially "we'll see what happens". All I asked was for one shred of evidence to substantiate what this entire scandal is predicated on - you admitted it doesn't exist yet.

Let me change the question for you - if it is found that the Russians didn't hack the DNC server - would you consider that significant?
No. that has zero to do with Trump's obstruction and JRs meeting for dirt on HRC, where he expected to receive something of value, evidence damaging to her.

This thread isn't about obstruction of justice or Jr doing opposition research with a civilian from Russia.

This thread is addressing the claim that the DNC server was remotely hacked by the Russian Government - a claim that we repeatedly hear from Democrats as well as some Republicans.

This claim is based on zero evidence, as we can see by the non-responses on this thread.
MEEK AND MILD
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Right-Wing
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wilmywood8455
Jul 12 2017, 04:56 PM
estonianman
Jul 11 2017, 05:17 PM
wilmywood8455
Jul 11 2017, 05:14 PM
estonianman
Jul 11 2017, 05:12 PM
wilmywood8455
Jul 11 2017, 05:09 PM
I'm not aware that anyone from the intelligence community, the justice department or the Congress are members here, so until they're ready to reveal what they have, your cute little weak attempt at a 'gotcha' will go unresponded to.
Thank you for admitting what others cannot - there is no evidence that the Russians hacked the DNC server OVER A YEAR AGO.
I did not do that, and I'll thank you to not put words in my mouth. My post was quite clear, and attempting to prostitute it to bolster your so-called arguments is weak at best.

Your post was essentially "we'll see what happens". All I asked was for one shred of evidence to substantiate what this entire scandal is predicated on - you admitted it doesn't exist yet.

Let me change the question for you - if it is found that the Russians didn't hack the DNC server - would you consider that significant?
No. that has zero to do with Trump's obstruction and JRs meeting for dirt on HRC, where he expected to receive something of value, evidence damaging to her.

1. Trump did not obstruct anything...the investigation continued unabated after Comey's termination; it was actually enhanced with the appointment of an Independent Counsel.
2. Jr's meeting with someone from Russia with supposed evidence of criminal activity by HRC was not illegal, nor was it collusive.

You are grasping at non-existent straws my friend...

Donald Trump is Barack Obama's President!
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BuckFan

Crowdsource is a public example of the evidence against the Russians. Want to discredit it? Fine.

The fact is the IC also says that it is conclusive that the Russians hacked the DNC and Podesta emails. Their evidence is classified so we will not see it for years but they have shown it to Republican Congressmen, who have every reason to no believe it, and convinced them the story is true.

Esto continues to ignore this fact. The GOP Congressional leadership is not questioning the evidence. His only point, repeated over and over, is that the evidence is not public so he hasn't seen it. There are a lot of cases and investigations where the evidence is never made public. Court files are sealed. Government investigations are classified. Esto would have us believe that makes all those cases false too.
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estonianman
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BuckFan
Jul 12 2017, 08:04 PM
Crowdsource is a public example of the evidence against the Russians. Want to discredit it? Fine.

The fact is the IC also says that it is conclusive that the Russians hacked the DNC and Podesta emails. Their evidence is classified so we will not see it for years but they have shown it to Republican Congressmen, who have every reason to no believe it, and convinced them the story is true.

Esto continues to ignore this fact. The GOP Congressional leadership is not questioning the evidence. His only point, repeated over and over, is that the evidence is not public so he hasn't seen it. There are a lot of cases and investigations where the evidence is never made public. Court files are sealed. Government investigations are classified. Esto would have us believe that makes all those cases false too.
We are back to the retracted and irrelevant DNI report.

The IC said that the Russians tried to manipulate the election in general - they never said anything about the DNC server which they were denied access to.
MEEK AND MILD
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jake58

BuckFan
Jul 12 2017, 08:04 PM
Crowdsource is a public example of the evidence against the Russians. Want to discredit it? Fine.

The fact is the IC also says that it is conclusive that the Russians hacked the DNC and Podesta emails. Their evidence is classified so we will not see it for years but they have shown it to Republican Congressmen, who have every reason to no believe it, and convinced them the story is true.

Esto continues to ignore this fact. The GOP Congressional leadership is not questioning the evidence. His only point, repeated over and over, is that the evidence is not public so he hasn't seen it. There are a lot of cases and investigations where the evidence is never made public. Court files are sealed. Government investigations are classified. Esto would have us believe that makes all those cases false too.
Crowdsource is a public example of the evidence against the Russians. Want to discredit it? Fine.

It was discredited by others in cyber security community.


The fact is the IC also says that it is conclusive that the Russians hacked the DNC and Podesta emails. Their evidence is classified so we will not see it for years but they have shown it to Republican Congressmen, who have every reason to no believe it, and convinced them the story is true.

No, the IC believes the Russians tried to affect the election, they cannot specifically target the DNC hack as they have never seen the DNC server. Why does the DNC not turn over the server if they believe there has been a hack and they would like to find out who did it? Seems odd, no?

There are a lot of cases and investigations where the evidence is never made public.

Yes, those are known as failed investigations.
That which can be asserted without evidence; can be dismissed without evidence- Christopher Hitchens
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estonianman
Jul 11 2017, 05:17 PM
wilmywood8455
Jul 11 2017, 05:14 PM
estonianman
Jul 11 2017, 05:12 PM
wilmywood8455
Jul 11 2017, 05:09 PM
I'm not aware that anyone from the intelligence community, the justice department or the Congress are members here, so until they're ready to reveal what they have, your cute little weak attempt at a 'gotcha' will go unresponded to.
Thank you for admitting what others cannot - there is no evidence that the Russians hacked the DNC server OVER A YEAR AGO.
I did not do that, and I'll thank you to not put words in my mouth. My post was quite clear, and attempting to prostitute it to bolster your so-called arguments is weak at best.

Your post was essentially "we'll see what happens". All I asked was for one shred of evidence to substantiate what this entire scandal is predicated on - you admitted it doesn't exist yet.
I did no such thing. I said that the people who would have access to such evidence don't post here.

Stop putting words in my mouth. It's apparently the only way you think you can 'win'.

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