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U.S. Supreme Court Weighs Major Digital Privacy Case
Topic Started: Nov 29 2017, 12:58 PM (79 Views)
Demagogue
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http://www.oann.com/u-s-supreme-court-weighs-major-digital-privacy-case/

November 29, 2017

By Lawrence Hurley

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The U.S. Supreme Court on Wednesday takes up a major test of privacy rights in the digital age as it weighs whether police must obtain warrants to get data on the past locations of criminal suspects using cellphone data from wireless providers.

The justices at 10 a.m. (1500 GMT) are due to hear an appeal by a man named Timothy Carpenter convicted in a series of armed robberies in Ohio and Michigan with the help of past cellphone location data that linked him to the crime locations. His American Civil Liberties Union lawyers argue that without a court-issued warrant such data amounts to an unreasonable search and seizure under the U.S. Constitution’s Fourth Amendment.

Law enforcement authorities routinely request and receive this information from wireless providers during criminal investigations as they try to link a suspect to a crime.
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm.
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Demagogue
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Seems to me that it is pretty clear that this is private data and they should need a warrant.
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm.
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George Aligator
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Demagogue
Nov 29 2017, 12:59 PM
Seems to me that it is pretty clear that this is private data and they should need a warrant.
On the other hand, it is data which is knowingly shared with a third party, i.e. I call you up and the information about our phone numbers, the time and places when the call took place are given to the phone company as an essential part of the communication.

If you and I agree to meet at a bar to discuss a business deal, we can't be outraged because the bartender overhears our conversation. Most folks would agree that if we want privacy, we should go to your place or mine instead. Smart phones have become so much a part of our daily lives that they seem like home, not a public place. But the reality is that our phone call is taking place through a commercial third party and in a public space, i.e. the airwaves.

Every step in communications technology opens its own window on privacy. If you embark on a life of crime, leave that smart phone home.
Conservatism is a social disease
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Demagogue
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George Aligator
Nov 29 2017, 01:56 PM
Demagogue
Nov 29 2017, 12:59 PM
Seems to me that it is pretty clear that this is private data and they should need a warrant.
On the other hand, it is data which is knowingly shared with a third party, i.e. I call you up and the information about our phone numbers, the time and places when the call took place are given to the phone company as an essential part of the communication.

If you and I agree to meet at a bar to discuss a business deal, we can't be outraged because the bartender overhears our conversation. Most folks would agree that if we want privacy, we should go to your place or mine instead. Smart phones have become so much a part of our daily lives that they seem like home, not a public place. But the reality is that our phone call is taking place through a commercial third party and in a public space, i.e. the airwaves.

Every step in communications technology opens its own window on privacy. If you embark on a life of crime, leave that smart phone home.
I suppose the difference is that the cell phone company is providing me a service in which some expectation of privacy is included.

As I said, I have no problem with the police being able to get a warrant to get the location information. I just don't think that they should be able to get it just by asking with zero oversight.

Mind you, people who constantly broadcast their location publicly via social media posts obviously are putting their location information in the public domain and that information is certainly something the police don't need to ask for permission to get.
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm.
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thoughtless
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Demagogue
Nov 29 2017, 12:59 PM
Seems to me that it is pretty clear that this is private data and they should need a warrant.
Comparing this to the mail, a letter may be private, but the address printed on the envelope isn't.
Without geometry, life is pointless.
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thoughtless
Nov 29 2017, 02:53 PM
Demagogue
Nov 29 2017, 12:59 PM
Seems to me that it is pretty clear that this is private data and they should need a warrant.
Comparing this to the mail, a letter may be private, but the address printed on the envelope isn't.
That is not a good analogy. A better analogy would be the where you make purchases with your credit card. It is something that most people carry on their person at all times. It is a service that you pay for (either in interest or through fees) and there is some expectation that your service provider will not tell everyone where you last spent money. If the police want to track your credit cards they require a warrant.

Similarly, phones are computers, if the police want access to the data on your computer they need a warrant.

I honestly don't see how this is anything other than information that would require a warrant. Warrants are not all that hard to get so I don't really see the issue.
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm.
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George Aligator
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Demagogue
Nov 29 2017, 03:35 PM
thoughtless
Nov 29 2017, 02:53 PM
Demagogue
Nov 29 2017, 12:59 PM
Seems to me that it is pretty clear that this is private data and they should need a warrant.
Comparing this to the mail, a letter may be private, but the address printed on the envelope isn't.
That is not a good analogy. A better analogy would be the where you make purchases with your credit card. It is something that most people carry on their person at all times. It is a service that you pay for (either in interest or through fees) and there is some expectation that your service provider will not tell everyone where you last spent money. If the police want to track your credit cards they require a warrant.

Similarly, phones are computers, if the police want access to the data on your computer they need a warrant.

I honestly don't see how this is anything other than information that would require a warrant. Warrants are not all that hard to get so I don't really see the issue.
Thoughtless has posted more than an analogy with traditional mail. The courts have agreed for many years that the transmission data -- date, time, number called, length of call, is different from the content of the call itself. Before cell phones, the location of the phones was already known. With cell phones you can wander around but the location from which the call is being made is still known to the phone company. The data is vastly greater and more revealing however; and some courts have accepted that it should be protected because of the amount of information that can be extracted from it.
Conservatism is a social disease
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Demagogue
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George Aligator
Nov 29 2017, 05:18 PM
Demagogue
Nov 29 2017, 03:35 PM
thoughtless
Nov 29 2017, 02:53 PM
Demagogue
Nov 29 2017, 12:59 PM
Seems to me that it is pretty clear that this is private data and they should need a warrant.
Comparing this to the mail, a letter may be private, but the address printed on the envelope isn't.
That is not a good analogy. A better analogy would be the where you make purchases with your credit card. It is something that most people carry on their person at all times. It is a service that you pay for (either in interest or through fees) and there is some expectation that your service provider will not tell everyone where you last spent money. If the police want to track your credit cards they require a warrant.

Similarly, phones are computers, if the police want access to the data on your computer they need a warrant.

I honestly don't see how this is anything other than information that would require a warrant. Warrants are not all that hard to get so I don't really see the issue.
Thoughtless has posted more than an analogy with traditional mail. The courts have agreed for many years that the transmission data -- date, time, number called, length of call, is different from the content of the call itself. Before cell phones, the location of the phones was already known. With cell phones you can wander around but the location from which the call is being made is still known to the phone company. The data is vastly greater and more revealing however; and some courts have accepted that it should be protected because of the amount of information that can be extracted from it.
It will be interesting to see how they rule. Obviously, it is not a problem if you don't want to be tracked pull the sim card and and battery or put the phone in a faraday bag.

People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm.
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Robert Stout
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It is only a violation of privacy if your wife is tracking your location...........
Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid
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