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Iran cities hit by anti-government protests
Topic Started: Dec 29 2017, 12:56 PM (1,301 Views)
Robert Stout
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George Aligator
Dec 31 2017, 12:14 PM
The American public see domestic upheaval in places like Iran as a zero-sum game between the good guys (the guys who like us) and the bad guys, on a model which goes back to the last century. As a political analysis it is typically narcissistic, centered on what we imagine those people think of the USA, and rather indifferent to the local economic, religious and cultural issues actually driving events in Iran.

There is a sizable faction in Iran which is attracted to Western social norms. They like blue jeans and rock music so we like them. That's OK, by-and-large, they like us. The problem comes with the opposition to the pro-Western young liberals. Our simplistic dichotomy tilts Americans in the direction that because we like the kids who want to hold hands in public, the mullahs must be bad guys, cruel and evil, who hate us. That is simply not the case. Their conservative social policy may be nothing we want in America but it doesn't bother us at all in Saudi Arabia. Their police may be violent in suppressing public demonstrations but we are happy to overlook that in Egypt.

The real driver of America's "hate Iran" movement is Israel. Like every other country in the world except the USA, Iran opposes the activities of the Likud government. The American Jewish lobby, which controls American Middle East policy, therefore dictates an implacable hostile opposition to Iran. This has been true for years. Now that we are all alone, our folly becomes clearer.
Leave Tehran and you are most likely to see primitive goat herders chanting , "Death to America", "Death to Israel", "Death to Sunnis", and "Death to Baha'is"...People like this are as dangerous to have nuclear weapons as Kim in North Korea is................. :biggrin:
Edited by Robert Stout, Dec 31 2017, 11:55 PM.
Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid
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The Inquisitor
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This is going to be another Tienanmen Square....Iran's hardliners will eventually squash it.... :oyvey
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W A Mozart
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Happy 2018...!

What will 2018 bring to the world? Will there be conflict, perhaps even a war with Iran or North Korea? Are we even paying attention to the unseen Zeitgeist? Are the ominous forebodings similar to the sands of time passing through the hourglass in the year 1914? Peace and prosperity, followed by violent bloodshed? No one knows what's coming, except, perhaps, ....Nostradamus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa89bt0GZvQ

Mozart
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Robert Stout
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My writings are easier to interpret than Nostradamus............ :)
Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid
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W A Mozart
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Another haunting melody from Al Stewart:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmuPs1vD8Ew

Laughing into 1939
by Al Stewart



Party hat and satin dress
Silver paper curled in her long black hair
Tapping one small elegant shoe in time
Oh, the way she plays with them
Smile at one, then dance with another
Pretty soon they’re forming up a line
And she’s laughing, laughing into 1939
Oh, laughing, laughing into 1939

Oh, the party draws them in
It breathes and moves
To a life its own
In its arms it’s gathering all time
From the dark he watches her
Moving in and out of the bobbing crowd
If she even notices, she gives no sign
And she’s laughing, laughing into 1939
Oh, laughing, laughing into 1939

For tonight is New Year’s Eve
Uncork your spirits and welcome it in
Who knows what it’s got up its sleeve
Can’t wait for it all to begin
Stand by the girl with the purple balloon
The look in her eyes just lights up the room
In the corner of her smile
She’ll be seeing you soon
Under a mistletoe moon

Out on to the balcony
Come the King and Queen
And the crowd go wild
He’s a little bit nervous
But that’s just fine
And they’re laughing, laughing into 1939
Oh, laughing, laughing into 1939


Mozart
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George Aligator
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Robert Stout
Dec 31 2017, 11:53 PM
George Aligator
Dec 31 2017, 12:14 PM
The American public see domestic upheaval in places like Iran as a zero-sum game between the good guys (the guys who like us) and the bad guys, on a model which goes back to the last century. As a political analysis it is typically narcissistic, centered on what we imagine those people think of the USA, and rather indifferent to the local economic, religious and cultural issues actually driving events in Iran.

There is a sizable faction in Iran which is attracted to Western social norms. They like blue jeans and rock music so we like them. That's OK, by-and-large, they like us. The problem comes with the opposition to the pro-Western young liberals. Our simplistic dichotomy tilts Americans in the direction that because we like the kids who want to hold hands in public, the mullahs must be bad guys, cruel and evil, who hate us. That is simply not the case. Their conservative social policy may be nothing we want in America but it doesn't bother us at all in Saudi Arabia. Their police may be violent in suppressing public demonstrations but we are happy to overlook that in Egypt.

The real driver of America's "hate Iran" movement is Israel. Like every other country in the world except the USA, Iran opposes the activities of the Likud government. The American Jewish lobby, which controls American Middle East policy, therefore dictates an implacable hostile opposition to Iran. This has been true for years. Now that we are all alone, our folly becomes clearer.
Leave Tehran and you are most likely to see primitive goat herders chanting , "Death to America", "Death to Israel", "Death to Sunnis", and "Death to Baha'is"...People like this are as dangerous to have nuclear weapons as Kim in North Korea is................. :biggrin:
No, you don't see goat herders. You personally have never seen anyone herding goats, have you? You picked up the phrase "goat herders" from Sunday school. Goats aren't raised that way, even in Iran or Israel. The crowds that are participating in the current political demonstrations aren't goat herders, they aren't likely even to be farmers because Iranian agriculture, particularly in the vicinity of cities, is tenant farming and the land owners are wealthy familes who control the mosque as well as the government. Political dissent is not welcome and tenant farmers are too vulnerable to join in.

The protesters are largely urban workers, students and such. They are the ones which were hurt by the 2009 elections. They are not protesting America, Israel, Sunnis or Bahai's. Religious animosity is not a driving force in Iranian politics. Hostility to America and Israel is common but does not take the form of violent rioting at police and army bases like the current unrest.

There aren't any Iranians in the desert where you live, are there? If someone from Iran is so unfortunate as to live in Arizona, he apparently isn't lonely enough to talk to you. Your fantasy world the outskirts of Teheran is just as fantastical and uninformed as your vision of Puerto Rico. Have you ever been to Phoenix? Perhaps you should start creating fantasies about that city. Some minimum experience is necessary. Where was the prison you used to live in located?
Conservatism is a social disease
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Robert Stout
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George Aligator
Jan 1 2018, 06:57 PM
Robert Stout
Dec 31 2017, 11:53 PM
George Aligator
Dec 31 2017, 12:14 PM
The American public see domestic upheaval in places like Iran as a zero-sum game between the good guys (the guys who like us) and the bad guys, on a model which goes back to the last century. As a political analysis it is typically narcissistic, centered on what we imagine those people think of the USA, and rather indifferent to the local economic, religious and cultural issues actually driving events in Iran.

There is a sizable faction in Iran which is attracted to Western social norms. They like blue jeans and rock music so we like them. That's OK, by-and-large, they like us. The problem comes with the opposition to the pro-Western young liberals. Our simplistic dichotomy tilts Americans in the direction that because we like the kids who want to hold hands in public, the mullahs must be bad guys, cruel and evil, who hate us. That is simply not the case. Their conservative social policy may be nothing we want in America but it doesn't bother us at all in Saudi Arabia. Their police may be violent in suppressing public demonstrations but we are happy to overlook that in Egypt.

The real driver of America's "hate Iran" movement is Israel. Like every other country in the world except the USA, Iran opposes the activities of the Likud government. The American Jewish lobby, which controls American Middle East policy, therefore dictates an implacable hostile opposition to Iran. This has been true for years. Now that we are all alone, our folly becomes clearer.
Leave Tehran and you are most likely to see primitive goat herders chanting , "Death to America", "Death to Israel", "Death to Sunnis", and "Death to Baha'is"...People like this are as dangerous to have nuclear weapons as Kim in North Korea is................. :biggrin:
No, you don't see goat herders. You personally have never seen anyone herding goats, have you? You picked up the phrase "goat herders" from Sunday school. Goats aren't raised that way, even in Iran or Israel. The crowds that are participating in the current political demonstrations aren't goat herders, they aren't likely even to be farmers because Iranian agriculture, particularly in the vicinity of cities, is tenant farming and the land owners are wealthy familes who control the mosque as well as the government. Political dissent is not welcome and tenant farmers are too vulnerable to join in.

The protesters are largely urban workers, students and such. They are the ones which were hurt by the 2009 elections. They are not protesting America, Israel, Sunnis or Bahai's. Religious animosity is not a driving force in Iranian politics. Hostility to America and Israel is common but does not take the form of violent rioting at police and army bases like the current unrest.

There aren't any Iranians in the desert where you live, are there? If someone from Iran is so unfortunate as to live in Arizona, he apparently isn't lonely enough to talk to you. Your fantasy world the outskirts of Teheran is just as fantastical and uninformed as your vision of Puerto Rico. Have you ever been to Phoenix? Perhaps you should start creating fantasies about that city. Some minimum experience is necessary. Where was the prison you used to live in located?
You sound frustrated and tired....Take a nap............. :shakeshead:
Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid
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W A Mozart
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https://youtu.be/Av7TY76Ho9w

CNN, what a despicable piece of garbage. Over the weekend Newsbuster's noted how CNN is spinning their news of the historic events taking place in Iran. As their "Senior Middle East" Correspondent, Arwa Damon, a hate-filled b!tch, decided to interject her opinion on women seeking freedom in Iran.

Quote:
 
Perhaps it was the weather in Istanbul, Turkey, but viewers will see in the video clip which follows that Arwa Damon appeared to be quite sullen as she responded to the in-studio host's request for more information about Iran's response to Trump's tweets. After that, she decided to make harsh and far broader statements supposedly reflecting the attitudes of "a lot of nations and their populations":


...."Now this, not just necessarily a rebuke of what the U.S. president tweeted, but also perhaps a reflection of just how frustrated, not just Iran but other countries frankly are, with the United States.

A lot of nations and their populations, no matter how they feel about their governments in particular, do perceive the United States as not really having a moral leg to stand on." ...


Iran and 'other countries' are 'frustrated' with the United States? WTF? We (the United States) don't have a 'moral leg to stand on?' Who gives a flying f as to what this woman thinks?

Why the 'f' is this strange woman allowed to broadcast propaganda on CNN? This is simply outrageous. CNN should be burned to the ground, ...or something.


Mozart
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Robert Stout
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Arwa is frustrated in general because she has never experience an orgasm....It is written all over her face.............. :popcorn:
Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid
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The Inquisitor
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W A Mozart
Jan 1 2018, 10:59 PM
https://youtu.be/Av7TY76Ho9w

CNN, what a despicable piece of garbage. Over the weekend Newsbuster's noted how CNN is spinning their news of the historic events taking place in Iran. As their "Senior Middle East" Correspondent, Arwa Damon, a hate-filled b!tch, decided to interject her opinion on women seeking freedom in Iran.

Quote:
 
Perhaps it was the weather in Istanbul, Turkey, but viewers will see in the video clip which follows that Arwa Damon appeared to be quite sullen as she responded to the in-studio host's request for more information about Iran's response to Trump's tweets. After that, she decided to make harsh and far broader statements supposedly reflecting the attitudes of "a lot of nations and their populations":


...."Now this, not just necessarily a rebuke of what the U.S. president tweeted, but also perhaps a reflection of just how frustrated, not just Iran but other countries frankly are, with the United States.

A lot of nations and their populations, no matter how they feel about their governments in particular, do perceive the United States as not really having a moral leg to stand on." ...


Iran and 'other countries' are 'frustrated' with the United States? WTF? We (the United States) don't have a 'moral leg to stand on?' Who gives a flying f as to what this woman thinks?

Why the 'f' is this strange woman allowed to broadcast propaganda on CNN? This is simply outrageous. CNN should be burned to the ground, ...or something.


Mozart
The freedom of the press is a licence to say or print anything without fear of being held libel....

It's a part of the first amendment....all the freedom you like....responsibility....optional.... :oyvey
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Hughmac

W A Mozart
Dec 30 2017, 11:29 AM
Iran always surprises you when you least expect it.

Freedom. Democracy. A whole generation growing-up wanting what the rest of the world already has. My God, has it already been nearly 40 years since those photo's of a French airline captain helping a doddering Ayatollah Khomenei down those airline steps? How the hell did that happen? I can remember just a few years earlier sitting next to some Persian friends of mine in an Arizona class room. Smart. Bright. The new future of Iran. Most of them went back to live under the dark dictatorship of the new ruling mullahs. Cut-off from the world and living without hope or prospect. Forty years.

The young of Iran demand freedom, let's hope they succeed.

Mozart
Yeah, well they had Freedom and Democracy until 1952, which is when the US/UK staged a military coup overthrowing a democratically elected government, remember, just before the CIA started training the new regime's Secret Police under the puppet dictator. There followed nearly 30 years of repression until the revolution, which is when your selective memory clicks in, right?

Cheers
Hughmac
Edited by Hughmac, Jan 2 2018, 03:04 AM.
H4T wrote: lobal] nuclear annihilation is preferable to the pre-Trump immigration/refugee policies.
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Robert Stout
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Hughmac
Jan 2 2018, 03:03 AM
W A Mozart
Dec 30 2017, 11:29 AM
Iran always surprises you when you least expect it.

Freedom. Democracy. A whole generation growing-up wanting what the rest of the world already has. My God, has it already been nearly 40 years since those photo's of a French airline captain helping a doddering Ayatollah Khomenei down those airline steps? How the hell did that happen? I can remember just a few years earlier sitting next to some Persian friends of mine in an Arizona class room. Smart. Bright. The new future of Iran. Most of them went back to live under the dark dictatorship of the new ruling mullahs. Cut-off from the world and living without hope or prospect. Forty years.

The young of Iran demand freedom, let's hope they succeed.

Mozart
Yeah, well they had Freedom and Democracy until 1952, which is when the US/UK staged a military coup overthrowing a democratically elected government, remember, just before the CIA started training the new regime's Secret Police under the puppet dictator. There followed nearly 30 years of repression until the revolution, which is when your selective memory clicks in, right?

Cheers
Hughmac
I remember it was the British who put the CIA up to selecting a dictatorship to rule Iran......... :mad:
Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid
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Harambe4Trump
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[twitter=https://twitter.com/pnehlen/status/947938286353436674]
Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary.
#MAGA
#wallsnotwars
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W A Mozart
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Hughmac
Jan 2 2018, 03:03 AM
W A Mozart
Dec 30 2017, 11:29 AM
Iran always surprises you when you least expect it.

Freedom. Democracy. A whole generation growing-up wanting what the rest of the world already has. My God, has it already been nearly 40 years since those photo's of a French airline captain helping a doddering Ayatollah Khomenei down those airline steps? How the hell did that happen? I can remember just a few years earlier sitting next to some Persian friends of mine in an Arizona class room. Smart. Bright. The new future of Iran. Most of them went back to live under the dark dictatorship of the new ruling mullahs. Cut-off from the world and living without hope or prospect. Forty years.

The young of Iran demand freedom, let's hope they succeed.

Mozart
Yeah, well they had Freedom and Democracy until 1952, which is when the US/UK staged a military coup overthrowing a democratically elected government, remember, just before the CIA started training the new regime's Secret Police under the puppet dictator. There followed nearly 30 years of repression until the revolution, which is when your selective memory clicks in, right?

Cheers
Hughmac
Some thoughts here...

My 'selective memory' recalled reading this article a few years back:

Quote:
 
In 1953, Mossadegh was prime minister of Iran; like many heads of state, the Shah had the legal, constitutional authority to remove his prime minister, which he did, at the behest of his ally the United States. Mossadegh, though, refused to be removed, and he arrested the officers who tried to deliver the Shah’s notice of dismissal. The Shah was forced to flee the country. At that point, it looked at if the U.S.’s anti-Mossadegh efforts had failed: The Shah was gone, and Mossadegh remained in power. After the Shah fled, says Takeyh, “the initiative passed to the Iranians.” The man who the Americans, the British, and the Shah had agreed should replace Mossadegh was General Fazlollah Zahedi; Zahedi was a powerful man, and well-liked by much of the political establishment, the religious establishment, and the army. With the Shah gone, and the Americans more or less resigned to failure, Zahedi took over the anti-Mossadegh campaign himself, spreading word throughout the country that the Shah — who remained popular — had fired Mossadegh and appointed Zahedi in his place. Says Takeyh: “Pro-shah protesters took to the streets.

It is true that the CIA paid a number of toughs from the bazaar and athletic centers to agitate against the government, but the CIA-financed mobs rarely exceeded a few hundred people in a country now rocked by demonstrators numbering in the thousands . . . in the end, the CIA-organized demonstrations were overtaken by a spontaneous cascade of pro-shah protesters.” Mossadegh ordered the army to restore order; the army took Zahedi’s side, and Mossadegh fled, soon “[turning] himself in to General Zahedi’s headquarters, where he was treated with courtesy and respect. Before the advent of the Islamic Republic, Persian politics were still marked by civility and decorum.” The CIA was happy to take credit, exaggerating its involvement in what was, at the time, considered a big success — but a private CIA cable credited Mossadegh’s collapse to the fact that “the flight of the Shah . . . galvanized the people into an irate pro-Shah force.” (A large portion of those galvanized people, it should be noted, were hard-core Islamists, who feared that Mossadegh’s slide to the left would include Communist atheism.) So: Mossadegh was no democrat, and the CIA was not responsible for his ouster; the CIA did not install the Shah in his place, and it did not become involved because of oil. In fact, after Mossadegh was gone, Iran’s oil infrastructure remained nationalized, and eventually the British agreed to a 50-50 profit split.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/421595/iran-truth-about-cia-and-shah-josh-gelernter



And then there were the comparisons:

Quote:
 
There’s no question, though, that the U.S. was one of the Shah’s major backers. And according to many luminaries — Ron Paul, Ben Affleck, my cousin — the Shah was a real bastard. Ben Affleck’s movie Argo opens with a monologue that says the “Shah was known for opulence and excess . . . [he] has his lunches flown in by Concorde from Paris. . . . The people starved. . . . The Shah kept power though his ruthless internal police: the SAVAK.” It was an “era of torture and fear.” With a brutal, American-puppet dictator in power, who can blame the Iranians for turning to the ayatollahs? Well, it’s possible that Argo overstated its case. According to historian Ervand Abrahamian, “Whereas less than 100 political prisoners had been executed between 1971 and 1979, more than 7,900 were executed between 1981 and 1985. . . . Prison life was drastically worse under the Islamic Republic than under the Pahlavis. One who survived both writes that four months under [the ayatollahs’ warden] took the toll of four years under SAVAK. In the prison literature of the Pahlavi era, the recurring words have been ‘boredom’ and ‘monotony.’ In that of the Islamic Republic, they are ‘fear,’ ‘death,’ ‘terror,’ ‘horror,’ and most frequent of all ‘nightmare.’” ..



Just some thoughts.....


Mozart
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_g R_
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BuckFan
Dec 31 2017, 05:17 PM
I wonder how many of our Rightie posters here understand that Saudi Arabia and ISIS have more in common and are both in opposition to Iran? We love to hate Iran because they dare challenge our influence in the ME. But they challenge our influence because we have backed their religious enemies.
Since 1953 to be exact.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/20/64-years-later-cia-finally-releases-details-of-iranian-coup-iran-tehran-oil/
The real leftists are the silenced majority, the sleeping giant.
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W A Mozart
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_g R_
Jan 2 2018, 11:10 AM
BuckFan
Dec 31 2017, 05:17 PM
I wonder how many of our Rightie posters here understand that Saudi Arabia and ISIS have more in common and are both in opposition to Iran? We love to hate Iran because they dare challenge our influence in the ME. But they challenge our influence because we have backed their religious enemies.
Since 1953 to be exact.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/20/64-years-later-cia-finally-releases-details-of-iranian-coup-iran-tehran-oil/
Yes, thank you for posting that.

It confirms some of the important points made in the National Revue article,...... :)

1) ...."At least “one guy was in the room with Kermit Roosevelt when he got this cable,” Byrne told Foreign Policy. “[Roosevelt] said no — we’re not done here.” It was already known that Roosevelt had not carried out an order from Langley to cease and desist. But the cable itself and its contents were not previously published.

The consequences of his decision were momentous. The next day, on August 19, 1953, with the aid of “rented” crowds widely believed to have been arranged with CIA assistance, the coup succeeded." ...


One guy? One guy went out "the next day" and "rented" crowds and overthrew the government? One guy, with a fistful of dollars? Really.
The point made in the National Revue article (see above):

..."It is true that the CIA paid a number of toughs from the bazaar and athletic centers to agitate against the government, but the CIA-financed mobs rarely exceeded a few hundred people in a country now rocked by demonstrators numbering in the thousands . . . in the end, the CIA-organized demonstrations were overtaken by a spontaneous cascade of pro-shah protesters.” ...

2) ...." New details on the true political leanings of Ayatollah Abol-Ghasem Kashani, a cleric and leading political figure in the 1950s.

In the Islamic Republic, clerics are always the good guys. Kashani has long been seen as one of the heroes of nationalism during that period. As recently as January of this year, Iran’s supreme leader praised Kashani’s role in the nationalization of oil.

Kashani’s eventual split from Mossadegh is widely known. Religious leaders in the country feared the growing power of the communist Tudeh Party, and believed that Mossadegh was too weak to save the country from the socialist threat.

But the newly released documents show that Kashani wasn’t just opposed to Mossadegh — he was also in close communication with the Americans throughout the period leading up to the coup, and he actually appears to have requested financial assistance from the United States, though there is no record of him receiving any money. His request was not previously known.

On the make-or-break day of Aug. 19, “Kashani was critical,” said Milani. “On that day Kashani’s forces were out in full force to defeat Mossadegh.” ...


So, Kashani's role in the coup "has long been seen as one of the heroes of nationalism during that period. As recently as January of this year, Iran’s supreme leader praised Kashani’s role in the nationalization of oil" and, and, his role was seen as "critical" in the Mossadegh overthrow, yet "there is no record of him receiving any money."

3) The REAL reason why the coup succeeded:

..."Kashani’s eventual split from Mossadegh is widely known. Religious leaders in the country feared the growing power of the communist Tudeh Party, and believed that Mossadegh was too weak to save the country from the socialist threat." ...

"Religious leaders" ....throughout the country. Not the result of a CIA guy standing on a street corner handing-out dollar bills.

Thank you for supporting my thesis here, ..... :)


Mozart
Edited by W A Mozart, Jan 2 2018, 01:05 PM.
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_g R_
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXXVoMJJkWE
The real leftists are the silenced majority, the sleeping giant.
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_g R_
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The world is dealing with the United States empire - the bully at the party who would spill the Risk board when he started losing the game.

And , speaking of Iran, one only needs to look at a map to know why the United States now has large military bases in Afghanistan and Iraq, not to mention constant US Navy presence in the Persian Gulf protecting Saudi Arabian oil tankers.

Posted Image
Edited by _g R_, Jan 2 2018, 01:42 PM.
The real leftists are the silenced majority, the sleeping giant.
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W A Mozart
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_g R_
Jan 2 2018, 01:32 PM
Noam Chomsky...? Noam Chomsky....?

:rotflmao: :box: :nana: :rotflmao: :oyvey



Mozart
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W A Mozart
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_g R_
Jan 2 2018, 01:38 PM
The world is dealing with the United States empire - the bully at the party who would spill the Risk board when he started losing the game.

Posted Image
And this has EXACTLY what to do with the price of kumquats in Thailand?

Mozart
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