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Jews were ‘passive’ during Holocaust, so Israel is ashamed – Polish president’s aide
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Topic Started: Feb 10 2018, 05:41 PM (451 Views)
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ringotuna
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Feb 13 2018, 04:57 AM
Post #41
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- Hughmac
- Feb 12 2018, 05:28 PM
- ringotuna
- Feb 12 2018, 05:01 AM
- Hughmac
- Feb 12 2018, 04:08 AM
- ringotuna
- Feb 11 2018, 04:44 PM
- Hughmac
- Feb 11 2018, 03:52 PM
Somewhat, but still very much an apples and oranges comparison. Completely different theatres completely different battles with very little in common. The most striking difference is the timeline you raised. The Pacific War was lengthened due in part to the Allies 'Europe First' policy. Our early Pacific War consisted primarily of Naval battles and submarine assaults on Japan's merchant and military fleets as well as some guerilla warfare. Major land battles didn't begin in earnest until Guadalcanal. From there, Pacific land battles consisted mainly of island hopping and intermittent amphibious assaults. It was not a continuous Blitzkrieg style attack such as the French & Brits dealt with in France. So the point being... that a comparison of 46 days to 4 years is not in my opinion a reasonable side by side comparison.
Hmmm, I was not comparing the two campaigns in any other sense but in the amount of casualties; thus throwing a highlight onto just how many Frenchmen lost there lives in so short a period defending their country. The Pacific Campaign holds a place in the US psychic as a meat grinder, which is why I picked it to bring it home to Robbie that French soldiers fought and died in greater numbers that US soldiers in the Pacific. It was not a comparison of foe, strategy or objective. I could also compare the killed to Gettysburg - just under 8,000 were killed on both sides, so the battle of France equivalent to 10 Battles of Gettysburg over 46 days in terms of French soldiers killed. Again the number killed is the only comparison point made. As I said, if you want an example of a nation's tendency to surrender without firing a shot in WW2, it is the Italians, not the French. ;-) Cheers Hughmac
I know you're not comparing anything other than casualties. My point however is that because of the differences in time and battle tactics, the casualty comparison is not a very valid comparison. Likewise with Gettysburg, it was a 3 day battle. Again, I'm not looking to disparage the French. I'll leave that to others. I just see a flaw in your methods of comparisons.
If, to give somebody an idea just how big a brachiosaurus was I say "it's the same height as two double-decker buses, one on top the other, and 5 buses parked end to end," the person visualising that comparison thinks, "Wow that's big; I hadn't realised." Making such a comparison does not mean that I'm putting over the idea that a brontosaurus was a form of public transport or that London Transport and the age of the dinosaurs coincided chronologically or existed an equal amount of time. Unfortunately, there was no way I could compare double-decker buses or brachiosaurus to the number of French soldiers killed in just 46 days defending their country, so I had to use the Pacific campaign... wait! The capacity of a double-decker bus in the 90's was 86 people seated meaning that you would need 1,000 double decker buses to fill the seating capacity with the French dead from The Battle of France. Cheers Hughmac
There were no brachiosaurus casualties in WW2. Let's leave it at that Hughmac. Cheers
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Ringoism: Never underestimate the advantages of being underestimated.
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ringotuna
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Feb 13 2018, 05:15 AM
Post #42
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- Siberian
- Feb 12 2018, 11:55 PM
- Hughmac
- Feb 12 2018, 05:28 PM
- ringotuna
- Feb 12 2018, 05:01 AM
- Hughmac
- Feb 12 2018, 04:08 AM
- ringotuna
- Feb 11 2018, 04:44 PM
Hmmm, I was not comparing the two campaigns in any other sense but in the amount of casualties; thus throwing a highlight onto just how many Frenchmen lost there lives in so short a period defending their country. The Pacific Campaign holds a place in the US psychic as a meat grinder, which is why I picked it to bring it home to Robbie that French soldiers fought and died in greater numbers that US soldiers in the Pacific. It was not a comparison of foe, strategy or objective. I could also compare the killed to Gettysburg - just under 8,000 were killed on both sides, so the battle of France equivalent to 10 Battles of Gettysburg over 46 days in terms of French soldiers killed. Again the number killed is the only comparison point made. As I said, if you want an example of a nation's tendency to surrender without firing a shot in WW2, it is the Italians, not the French. ;-) Cheers Hughmac
I know you're not comparing anything other than casualties. My point however is that because of the differences in time and battle tactics, the casualty comparison is not a very valid comparison. Likewise with Gettysburg, it was a 3 day battle. Again, I'm not looking to disparage the French. I'll leave that to others. I just see a flaw in your methods of comparisons.
If, to give somebody an idea just how big a brachiosaurus was I say "it's the same height as two double-decker buses, one on top the other, and 5 buses parked end to end," the person visualising that comparison thinks, "Wow that's big; I hadn't realised." Making such a comparison does not mean that I'm putting over the idea that a brontosaurus was a form of public transport or that London Transport and the age of the dinosaurs coincided chronologically or existed an equal amount of time. Unfortunately, there was no way I could compare double-decker buses or brachiosaurus to the number of French soldiers killed in just 46 days defending their country, so I had to use the Pacific campaign... wait! The capacity of a double-decker bus in the 90's was 86 people seated meaning that you would need 1,000 double decker buses to fill the seating capacity with the French dead from The Battle of France. Cheers Hughmac
USSR lost during the war (military and civilian population) 340 times more than France. France did not really participate in WWII, as most of Western countries. The French did the best they could with what they had.
And let's be honest here, The Soviet Union's record of surrender and collaboration is nothing to brag about.
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Ringoism: Never underestimate the advantages of being underestimated.
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voted4reagan
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Feb 13 2018, 05:17 AM
Post #43
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- ringotuna
- Feb 13 2018, 04:55 AM
- StillCrazy1
- Feb 12 2018, 05:29 PM
- ringotuna
- Feb 12 2018, 05:15 AM
- George Aligator
- Feb 11 2018, 06:49 PM
How many of these people have you heard of: Rolf Isaaksohn, Ans van Dijk, Moshe Merin, Chaim Mordechai Rumkowski, Jozef Andrzej Szerynski, Abraham Gancwajch, Calel Perechodnik, Adam Czerniakow, Alfred Nossig, Stella Goldschlag? Not too many, I would guess. These are all Jews who held important positions in the Nazi occupation of Poland and worked in the German concentration camp system there.
The propagandists for AIPAC don't talk about those enthusiastic collaborators, so our little alt-right kids can feel indignant about anyone who dares question Israel's murder of innocent Palestinian children. After all, the Jews use nice, American cluster bombs, not that nasty Germany zyklon b. Moral superiority at any price is the goal of the Trumpies.
Be honest George. You had never heard of those collaborators until you googled it. Poser.
How dare someone educate themselves instead of happily being an ignorant moron like you
All of the sudden, I'm beginning to think you don't like me. Was it something I said? i dont think so Tik...lol
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Trump needs to focus more so on the male vote. He should have nationalized the Boy Scouts when they decided to admit girls.
Harambe4Trump AKA "FASHY"
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Siberian
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Feb 13 2018, 06:18 AM
Post #44
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v4r, of course, in first couple of months of the war Germans captured a couple of millions of Russusn POW. But USSR was a country which had fierce civil war less than 1 generation ago and Stalins repressions less than 10 years ago. The country was still divided and many kossak villages, which were most heavilly repressed in 20-30s were all gathering their belonging s and left with Germans when Germans were retreating from Don river region - for example. Many Russians were viewing Germans as liberators fron Communist Jewish yoke, they did not fight Germans not because they were cowards but because they wanted to fight commies - and this was the main reason of collaboration. And it took a year of German atrocities to made Russians change their mind. But even what was left of Russian resistence was enough to win the war.
While in France I doubt any French were viewing Hitler as liberator Theu had to fight, had no reasons not to, but did not fight much...
economically USSR was in equial situation with France, when Germany invaded Soviet GDP was more than 2 times smaller than one controlled by Germans. I presume the same with population.
So, GDP in $bln ( in 1990 equivalent) in 1938-39-40-41-42-43-44-45
USA США 800 869 943 1094 1235 1399 1499 1474
UK Великобритания 284 287 316 344 353 361 346 331
France Франция 186 199 82 130 116 110 93 101
USSR СССР 359 366 417 359 274 305 362 343
Germany Германия 351 384 387 412 417 426 437 310
Italy Италия 141 151 147 144 145 137 117 92
Japan Япония 169 184 192 196 197 194 189 144
Edited by Siberian, Feb 13 2018, 06:25 AM.
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Goood morning GULAG!!!
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jake58
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Feb 13 2018, 11:40 AM
Post #45
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Russians killing Russians... same as it ever was
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That which can be asserted without evidence; can be dismissed without evidence- Christopher Hitchens
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voted4reagan
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Feb 13 2018, 11:43 AM
Post #46
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- jake58
- Feb 13 2018, 11:40 AM
Russians killing Russians... same as it ever was Holomodor... The systematic starvation of the people of Ukraine by Russia.
uncounted millions dead...
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Trump needs to focus more so on the male vote. He should have nationalized the Boy Scouts when they decided to admit girls.
Harambe4Trump AKA "FASHY"
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Siberian
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Feb 13 2018, 02:11 PM
Post #47
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Americans, want some ice cream? 
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Goood morning GULAG!!!
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Robert Stout
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Feb 13 2018, 02:27 PM
Post #48
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It is FUN to be an American.................
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Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid
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W A Mozart
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Feb 13 2018, 04:17 PM
Post #49
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- Hughmac
- Feb 13 2018, 03:18 AM
- Siberian
- Feb 12 2018, 11:55 PM
- Hughmac
- Feb 12 2018, 05:28 PM
- ringotuna
- Feb 12 2018, 05:01 AM
- Hughmac
- Feb 12 2018, 04:08 AM
I know you're not comparing anything other than casualties. My point however is that because of the differences in time and battle tactics, the casualty comparison is not a very valid comparison. Likewise with Gettysburg, it was a 3 day battle. Again, I'm not looking to disparage the French. I'll leave that to others. I just see a flaw in your methods of comparisons.
If, to give somebody an idea just how big a brachiosaurus was I say "it's the same height as two double-decker buses, one on top the other, and 5 buses parked end to end," the person visualising that comparison thinks, "Wow that's big; I hadn't realised." Making such a comparison does not mean that I'm putting over the idea that a brontosaurus was a form of public transport or that London Transport and the age of the dinosaurs coincided chronologically or existed an equal amount of time. Unfortunately, there was no way I could compare double-decker buses or brachiosaurus to the number of French soldiers killed in just 46 days defending their country, so I had to use the Pacific campaign... wait! The capacity of a double-decker bus in the 90's was 86 people seated meaning that you would need 1,000 double decker buses to fill the seating capacity with the French dead from The Battle of France. Cheers Hughmac
USSR lost during the war (military and civilian population) 340 times more than France. France did not really participate in WWII, as most of Western countries.
And battle-field-deaths Argentinosaurus huinculensis (sauropodomorph) steps into the room. I'm finally getting somewhere getting an American (robbie) to understand that the French did not surrender without a fight and now I've got a Russian reminding me that the Motherland had more people killed in battle than anybody else. Congrats! You might probably like to point out that a large proportion of Russians killed in WW2 were brought about by their own command structure; i.e. insanely sacrificed. Jesus, you can't swing cat on perspectives without somebody chirping up looking for an argument. The Belgians fought and died in WW2, The Netherlanders fought and died, the Poles fought and died - all of them before their countries collapsed and then like the Czechs, Norwegians and French, continued to fight in Free Forces and resistance units during the rest of the war in Europe. Can we just accept that the French did not give up without a fight? Cheers Hughmac
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"You might probably like to point out that a large proportion of Russians killed in WW2 were brought about by their own command structure; i.e. insanely sacrificed."
Oh my. Now there is a fascinating subject.
It reminded me of reading Cornelius Ryan's book, The Last Battle, on the closing months of World War II. It centered on the Red Army massing on the eastern side of the Oder-Neisse River in February of 1945. The Red Army held its position on the eastern bank for many weeks while in the process of dragging every kind of artillery piece, including katushka rockets, to the front lines. It was the final push to Berlin. When the decision was made to advance the Russians led off the final push with an incredible, massive artillery bombardment on the German positions on the western side of the river. Problem, ..... the Germans figured-out at what time the bombardment would begin, then quietly began to withdrew all of their defending forces. For hours on end the Russians pounded the western side of the river with an unbelievable bombardment, which hit nothing but empty bunkers. When it was all over the Germans quickly re-occupied their positions to wait for the crossing. To add drama to the whole thing the Red Army had powerful searchlights dramatically illuminating the Russian crossing of the river, still in darkness, and with the whole German army seeing every move. It nearly turned into an utter disaster, with Russian troops being exposed like sitting ducks in headlights. Had the Germans had a few more artillery pieces, or heavy tanks or rounds of additional ammunition, the consequences could have been disastrous for the Red Army and a further elongation of the conflict.
Point: Were the Russian generals, Koniev, Zhukov and Rokossovsky, competent? Or just brutal? A lot of historians have debated that very point. It's good stuff, .....
Mozart
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Hughmac
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Feb 14 2018, 10:43 AM
Post #50
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- ringotuna
- Feb 13 2018, 04:57 AM
- Hughmac
- Feb 12 2018, 05:28 PM
- ringotuna
- Feb 12 2018, 05:01 AM
- Hughmac
- Feb 12 2018, 04:08 AM
- ringotuna
- Feb 11 2018, 04:44 PM
Hmmm, I was not comparing the two campaigns in any other sense but in the amount of casualties; thus throwing a highlight onto just how many Frenchmen lost there lives in so short a period defending their country. The Pacific Campaign holds a place in the US psychic as a meat grinder, which is why I picked it to bring it home to Robbie that French soldiers fought and died in greater numbers that US soldiers in the Pacific. It was not a comparison of foe, strategy or objective. I could also compare the killed to Gettysburg - just under 8,000 were killed on both sides, so the battle of France equivalent to 10 Battles of Gettysburg over 46 days in terms of French soldiers killed. Again the number killed is the only comparison point made. As I said, if you want an example of a nation's tendency to surrender without firing a shot in WW2, it is the Italians, not the French. ;-) Cheers Hughmac
I know you're not comparing anything other than casualties. My point however is that because of the differences in time and battle tactics, the casualty comparison is not a very valid comparison. Likewise with Gettysburg, it was a 3 day battle. Again, I'm not looking to disparage the French. I'll leave that to others. I just see a flaw in your methods of comparisons.
If, to give somebody an idea just how big a brachiosaurus was I say "it's the same height as two double-decker buses, one on top the other, and 5 buses parked end to end," the person visualising that comparison thinks, "Wow that's big; I hadn't realised." Making such a comparison does not mean that I'm putting over the idea that a brontosaurus was a form of public transport or that London Transport and the age of the dinosaurs coincided chronologically or existed an equal amount of time. Unfortunately, there was no way I could compare double-decker buses or brachiosaurus to the number of French soldiers killed in just 46 days defending their country, so I had to use the Pacific campaign... wait! The capacity of a double-decker bus in the 90's was 86 people seated meaning that you would need 1,000 double decker buses to fill the seating capacity with the French dead from The Battle of France. Cheers Hughmac
There were no brachiosaurus casualties in WW2.  Let's leave it at that Hughmac. Cheers Just having fun ;-)
Cheers Hughmac
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H4T wrote: [Global] nuclear annihilation is preferable to the pre-Trump immigration/refugee policies.
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