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Why do Theists Believe?
Topic Started: Mar 5 2018, 08:01 PM (1,155 Views)
Skeptic1

We have been discussing rational thinking based on objective evidence because these are important issues as to why atheists do not believe. However, IMO, such discussions have nothing to do with why theists do believe.

So why do theists believe in some type of God(s)? I know we have mostly Christian theists here, but I would like to hear from all theists, including Muslims, Hindus, etc, etc.

Why do theists think some scriptures are divinely inspired, but others are not. For Example: Why do some believe the Bible is divinely inspired, but the Qur'an is not? Why do some believe the KJV is divinely inspired, but the Book of Mormon is not?
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Realitycheck
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Skeptic1
Mar 5 2018, 08:01 PM
We have been discussing rational thinking based on objective evidence because these are important issues as to why atheists do not believe. However, IMO, such discussions have nothing to do with why theists do believe.

So why do theists believe in some type of God(s)? I know we have mostly Christian theists here, but I would like to hear from all theists, including Muslims, Hindus, etc, etc.

Why do theists think some scriptures are divinely inspired, but others are not. For Example: Why do some believe the Bible is divinely inspired, but the Qur'an is not? Why do some believe the KJV is divinely inspired, but the Book of Mormon is not?
You are asking for rational replies about irrational beliefs.

The principal reason most people believe in religious teachings is because from the day they are born they are told those baseless beliefs are in fact real. It takes a particular strong intellect to break that indoctrination.

Both Aristotle and Ignatius of Loyola are credited with the quote "Give me the the child for 7 years and I will give you the man".

It is particularly true of religious belief.

Religion in general and xianity in particular, is the worst scourge, the foulest plague to ever beset mankind.
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BigE

Skeptic1
Mar 5 2018, 08:01 PM
We have been discussing rational thinking based on objective evidence because these are important issues as to why atheists do not believe. However, IMO, such discussions have nothing to do with why theists do believe.

So why do theists believe in some type of God(s)? I know we have mostly Christian theists here, but I would like to hear from all theists, including Muslims, Hindus, etc, etc.

Why do theists think some scriptures are divinely inspired, but others are not. For Example: Why do some believe the Bible is divinely inspired, but the Qur'an is not? Why do some believe the KJV is divinely inspired, but the Book of Mormon is not?
I haven't fully vetted this yet...but here's something I posted in another thread:

Scientists discover that atheists might not exist, and that’s not a joke

...."Cognitive scientists are becoming increasingly aware that a metaphysical outlook may be so deeply ingrained in human thought processes that it cannot be expunged."

...."This shouldn’t come as a surprise, since we are born believers, not atheists, scientists say."

...."Scientists have discovered that “invisible friends” are not something reserved for children. We all have them, and encounter them often in the form of interior monologues. As we experience events, we mentally tell a non-present listener about it. The imagined listener may be a spouse, it may be Jesus or Buddha or it may be no one in particular. It’s just how the way the human mind processes facts. The identity, tangibility or existence of the listener is irrelevant."

...."The implication is that we all believe in a not dissimilar range of tangible and intangible realities. Whether a particular brand of higher consciousness is included in that list (“I believe in God”, “I believe in some sort of higher force”, “I believe in no higher consciousness”) is little more than a detail."

...."It further suggests that the difference between the atheist and the non-atheist viewpoint is much smaller than probably either side perceives. Both groups have consciousnesses which create for themselves realities which include very similar tangible and intangible elements. It may simply be that their awareness levels and interpretations of certain surface details differ."

http://www.science20.com/writer_on_the_edge/blog/scientists_discover_that_atheists_might_not_exist_and_thats_not_a_joke-139982
Edited by BigE, Mar 6 2018, 06:56 AM.
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Skeptic1

BigE, I'll look it over, but what I see so far is a lot of "claiming" and "maybes" that also includes some equivocation of terms.

I hope your post doesn't get this thread off topic so early. I would like you to address the questions I asked.
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BigE

Skeptic1
Mar 6 2018, 07:50 AM
BigE, I'll look it over, but what I see so far is a lot of "claiming" and "maybes" that also includes some equivocation of terms.

I hope your post doesn't get this thread off topic so early. I would like you to address the questions I asked.
Are you asking me why I personally believe?
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Skeptic1

BigE
Mar 6 2018, 10:38 AM
Skeptic1
Mar 6 2018, 07:50 AM
BigE, I'll look it over, but what I see so far is a lot of "claiming" and "maybes" that also includes some equivocation of terms.

I hope your post doesn't get this thread off topic so early. I would like you to address the questions I asked.
Are you asking me why I personally believe?
Yes, but I also asked other questions, i.e. "Why do theists think some scriptures are divinely inspired, but others are not?"
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BigE

1.Why I believe ---> My own subjective experiences along with enough evidence to make me feel it is reasonable to do so.

2.Why do theists think some scriptures are divinely inspired, but others are not? ---> Faith
Edited by BigE, Mar 6 2018, 02:14 PM.
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Skeptic1

BigE
Mar 6 2018, 02:13 PM
1.Why I believe ---> My own subjective experiences along with enough evidence to make me feel it is reasonable to do so.

2.Why do theists think some scriptures are divinely inspired, but others are not? ---> Faith
With those type answers, this may be the shortest thread in history. :)

BigE, do you believe the Book of Mormon is divinely inspired? How about the Qur'an?
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Skeptic1

This maybe helpful.
https://www.amazon.com/Skeptics-Guide-Universe-Really-Increasingly/dp/1538760533
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BigE

Skeptic1
Mar 6 2018, 04:07 PM
BigE
Mar 6 2018, 02:13 PM
1.Why I believe ---> My own subjective experiences along with enough evidence to make me feel it is reasonable to do so.

2.Why do theists think some scriptures are divinely inspired, but others are not? ---> Faith
1) With those type answers, this may be the shortest thread in history. :)

2) BigE, do you believe the Book of Mormon is divinely inspired? How about the Qur'an?
1) Absolutely...lol...

2) No and no.
Edited by BigE, Mar 6 2018, 04:30 PM.
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seraphim
Member Avatar

Skeptic1
Mar 6 2018, 01:43 PM
BigE
Mar 6 2018, 10:38 AM
Skeptic1
Mar 6 2018, 07:50 AM
BigE, I'll look it over, but what I see so far is a lot of "claiming" and "maybes" that also includes some equivocation of terms.

I hope your post doesn't get this thread off topic so early. I would like you to address the questions I asked.
Are you asking me why I personally believe?
Yes, but I also asked other questions, i.e. "Why do theists think some scriptures are divinely inspired, but others are not?"
Atheism and Theism are opposites in every conceivable sense of the word. The terms atheism and theism declare opposition. Atheism says there is no God. Theism worships God. Atheists require proofs. Theists require faith. Atheists believe in an evolved man, Theists believe in a created man - and on and on and on and on...

1. Why do theists believe in some type of God(s)?
2. Why do theists think some scriptures are divinely inspired, but others are not?


1. Belief in God is innate. There is no one who does not believe, indeed it is impossible to not believe. This Fact is evidenced indisputably by simple observation of past and present peoples regardless of race, color, creed, national origin, age, gender or culture. Belief in God is written into our DNA. Belief in God should not be confused with the practice of religion - they are not the same thing. So called Theists are divided along lines of religious practices too, but, that doesn't change the fact of their belief in (as you put it) "some type of God(s)." It is the profession of disbelief that is the anomaly. The attempt to explain away God, to rationalize God into oblivion according to the pure reason of man, that is unconscionable. I find it remarkable that a thinking, rational human being would attempt to put aside nature and the marvelous depths of human perception to trust in the rationalizations of men and therein exchange the truth of God for a lie. So, the simplest answer to the question "Why do theists believe in some type of God(s)?" is "Because they do."

2. I don't understand the second question. What exactly do you mean by "divinely inspired."
Edited by seraphim, Mar 6 2018, 08:19 PM.
Soli Deo gloria
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Robertr2000
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Skeptic1
Mar 5 2018, 08:01 PM
We have been discussing rational thinking based on objective evidence because these are important issues as to why atheists do not believe. However, IMO, such discussions have nothing to do with why theists do believe.

So why do theists believe in some type of God(s)? I know we have mostly Christian theists here, but I would like to hear from all theists, including Muslims, Hindus, etc, etc.

Why do theists think some scriptures are divinely inspired, but others are not. For Example: Why do some believe the Bible is divinely inspired, but the Qur'an is not? Why do some believe the KJV is divinely inspired, but the Book of Mormon is not?
Why do you care?
"if that **** wins we'll all hang from nooses"
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Skeptic1

BigE
Mar 6 2018, 04:30 PM
Skeptic1
Mar 6 2018, 04:07 PM
BigE
Mar 6 2018, 02:13 PM
1.Why I believe ---> My own subjective experiences along with enough evidence to make me feel it is reasonable to do so.

2.Why do theists think some scriptures are divinely inspired, but others are not? ---> Faith
1) With those type answers, this may be the shortest thread in history. :)

2) BigE, do you believe the Book of Mormon is divinely inspired? How about the Qur'an?
1) Absolutely...lol...

2) No and no.
BigE, since you are Catholic, I assume you consider the bible divinely inspired.
a) Is that the case for all versions?
b)What is it about the bible that leads you to believe it is divinely inspired?
c)What is it about the Qur'an and Book of Mormon that leads you to believe they are NOT divinely inspired?
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Skeptic1

seraphim
Mar 6 2018, 08:15 PM
Skeptic1
Mar 6 2018, 01:43 PM
BigE
Mar 6 2018, 10:38 AM
Skeptic1
Mar 6 2018, 07:50 AM
BigE, I'll look it over, but what I see so far is a lot of "claiming" and "maybes" that also includes some equivocation of terms.

I hope your post doesn't get this thread off topic so early. I would like you to address the questions I asked.
Are you asking me why I personally believe?
Yes, but I also asked other questions, i.e. "Why do theists think some scriptures are divinely inspired, but others are not?"
Atheism and Theism are opposites in every conceivable sense of the word. The terms atheism and theism declare opposition. Atheism says there is no God. Theism worships God. Atheists require proofs. Theists require faith. Atheists believe in an evolved man, Theists believe in a created man - and on and on and on and on...

1. Why do theists believe in some type of God(s)?
2. Why do theists think some scriptures are divinely inspired, but others are not?


1. Belief in God is innate. There is no one who does not believe, indeed it is impossible to not believe. This Fact is evidenced indisputably by simple observation of past and present peoples regardless of race, color, creed, national origin, age, gender or culture. Belief in God is written into our DNA. Belief in God should not be confused with the practice of religion - they are not the same thing. So called Theists are divided along lines of religious practices too, but, that doesn't change the fact of their belief in (as you put it) "some type of God(s)." It is the profession of disbelief that is the anomaly. The attempt to explain away God, to rationalize God into oblivion according to the pure reason of man, that is unconscionable. I find it remarkable that a thinking, rational human being would attempt to put aside nature and the marvelous depths of human perception to trust in the rationalizations of men and therein exchange the truth of God for a lie. So, the simplest answer to the question "Why do theists believe in some type of God(s)?" is "Because they do."

2. I don't understand the second question. What exactly do you mean by "divinely inspired."
1) Seraphim, you make a lot of unsupported assertions as if they are facts, rather than just your faith based beliefs. If they are your beliefs, fine, but if you are stating these assertions as facts, then "what is asserted without evidence can be rejected without evidence".

I asked "why do theists believe", your answer amounts to "just because". That is a non-answer.

2) I heard theists claim their particular scriptures were inspired by their God. Some even claim that because of this their scriptures are without error. Some even claim the Holy Spirit inspires councils, etc that make decisions concerning their faith. The shorthand for this is "divine inspiration".


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_inspiration
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Skeptic1

Robertr2000
Mar 6 2018, 09:20 PM
Skeptic1
Mar 5 2018, 08:01 PM
We have been discussing rational thinking based on objective evidence because these are important issues as to why atheists do not believe. However, IMO, such discussions have nothing to do with why theists do believe.

So why do theists believe in some type of God(s)? I know we have mostly Christian theists here, but I would like to hear from all theists, including Muslims, Hindus, etc, etc.

Why do theists think some scriptures are divinely inspired, but others are not. For Example: Why do some believe the Bible is divinely inspired, but the Qur'an is not? Why do some believe the KJV is divinely inspired, but the Book of Mormon is not?
Why do you care?
Hi Robert. As I said, we had been discussing why atheists do not believe. I am curious as to why theists do believe. Since rational thinking based on objective evidence IS NOT the method most theist claim to use, I wanted to know exactly how they acquired their beliefs using Faith.

In the past I met some theists who never even thought about the process that lead them to what they believed. It was just part of their culture, and they were not exposed to many contrary ideas.

Robert, are you a theist?
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Skeptic1

Realitycheck
Mar 5 2018, 08:32 PM
Skeptic1
Mar 5 2018, 08:01 PM
We have been discussing rational thinking based on objective evidence because these are important issues as to why atheists do not believe. However, IMO, such discussions have nothing to do with why theists do believe.

So why do theists believe in some type of God(s)? I know we have mostly Christian theists here, but I would like to hear from all theists, including Muslims, Hindus, etc, etc.

Why do theists think some scriptures are divinely inspired, but others are not. For Example: Why do some believe the Bible is divinely inspired, but the Qur'an is not? Why do some believe the KJV is divinely inspired, but the Book of Mormon is not?
You are asking for rational replies about irrational beliefs.

The principal reason most people believe in religious teachings is because from the day they are born they are told those baseless beliefs are in fact real. It takes a particular strong intellect to break that indoctrination.

Both Aristotle and Ignatius of Loyola are credited with the quote "Give me the the child for 7 years and I will give you the man".

It is particularly true of religious belief.

RC, I'm sorry I missed your early reply. You are probably correct, but I'll wait to see what discussions result.
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BigE

Skeptic1
Mar 7 2018, 08:09 AM
Realitycheck
Mar 5 2018, 08:32 PM
Skeptic1
Mar 5 2018, 08:01 PM
We have been discussing rational thinking based on objective evidence because these are important issues as to why atheists do not believe. However, IMO, such discussions have nothing to do with why theists do believe.

So why do theists believe in some type of God(s)? I know we have mostly Christian theists here, but I would like to hear from all theists, including Muslims, Hindus, etc, etc.

Why do theists think some scriptures are divinely inspired, but others are not. For Example: Why do some believe the Bible is divinely inspired, but the Qur'an is not? Why do some believe the KJV is divinely inspired, but the Book of Mormon is not?
You are asking for rational replies about irrational beliefs.

The principal reason most people believe in religious teachings is because from the day they are born they are told those baseless beliefs are in fact real. It takes a particular strong intellect to break that indoctrination.

Both Aristotle and Ignatius of Loyola are credited with the quote "Give me the the child for 7 years and I will give you the man".

It is particularly true of religious belief.

RC, I'm sorry I missed your early reply. You are probably correct, but I'll wait to see what discussions result.
Just curious Skeptic. Do you believe RC is rational with his responses and thinking? His allegations about Stef and his other antics?
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BigE

Skeptic1
Mar 7 2018, 07:42 AM
1.BigE, since you are Catholic, I assume you consider the bible divinely inspired.
a) Is that the case for all versions?
b)What is it about the bible that leads you to believe it is divinely inspired?
c)What is it about the Qur'an and Book of Mormon that leads you to believe they are NOT divinely inspired? [/color]
1, Yes
a. What "all" versions? There are maybe 2. The Catholic version and the Protestant version (which is identical to the Catholic except for 7 books removed). So yes.
b. The Bible itself says so. The teaching arm of the Church (through the Holy Spirit) says so. The people of God (through the Holy Spirit) said so.
c1. Since the Book of Mormon, The Quran, and the Bible all in some ways contradict each other - they can't all be inspired.
c2. The Bible claims to be divinely "inspired" - inspired by God but written by men (through that inspiration) with all the limitations, cultural bias, style, and flawed human perspectives of a man but through grace with a divine message buried in there somewhere (ie....The Bible is the "Word" of God but NOT the "words" of God)
- The Quran and the Book of Morman on the other hand - claim to be "written by God" with Gods actual words simply transcribed by Joseph Smith and/or Muhammed. That puts their sacred words to a much higher standard since God's words should have no error. Any errors would then disprove their inspiration. Then easy enough to do. You could google a million articles on where both those books fall short of mark.
Edited by BigE, Mar 7 2018, 12:35 PM.
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Realitycheck
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seraphim
Mar 6 2018, 08:15 PM
Skeptic1
Mar 6 2018, 01:43 PM
BigE
Mar 6 2018, 10:38 AM
Skeptic1
Mar 6 2018, 07:50 AM
BigE, I'll look it over, but what I see so far is a lot of "claiming" and "maybes" that also includes some equivocation of terms.

I hope your post doesn't get this thread off topic so early. I would like you to address the questions I asked.
Are you asking me why I personally believe?
Yes, but I also asked other questions, i.e. "Why do theists think some scriptures are divinely inspired, but others are not?"
Atheism and Theism are opposites in every conceivable sense of the word. The terms atheism and theism declare opposition. Atheism says there is no God. Theism worships God. Atheists require proofs. Theists require faith. Atheists believe in an evolved man, Theists believe in a created man - and on and on and on and on...

1. Why do theists believe in some type of God(s)?
2. Why do theists think some scriptures are divinely inspired, but others are not?


1. Belief in God is innate. There is no one who does not believe, indeed it is impossible to not believe. This Fact is evidenced indisputably by simple observation of past and present peoples regardless of race, color, creed, national origin, age, gender or culture. Belief in God is written into our DNA. Belief in God should not be confused with the practice of religion - they are not the same thing. So called Theists are divided along lines of religious practices too, but, that doesn't change the fact of their belief in (as you put it) "some type of God(s)." It is the profession of disbelief that is the anomaly. The attempt to explain away God, to rationalize God into oblivion according to the pure reason of man, that is unconscionable. I find it remarkable that a thinking, rational human being would attempt to put aside nature and the marvelous depths of human perception to trust in the rationalizations of men and therein exchange the truth of God for a lie. So, the simplest answer to the question "Why do theists believe in some type of God(s)?" is "Because they do."

2. I don't understand the second question. What exactly do you mean by "divinely inspired."
Whistling past the graveyard again. :rollseyes:
Religion in general and xianity in particular, is the worst scourge, the foulest plague to ever beset mankind.
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Skeptic1

BigE
Mar 7 2018, 12:33 PM
Skeptic1
Mar 7 2018, 07:42 AM
1.BigE, since you are Catholic, I assume you consider the bible divinely inspired.
a) Is that the case for all versions?
b)What is it about the bible that leads you to believe it is divinely inspired?
c)What is it about the Qur'an and Book of Mormon that leads you to believe they are NOT divinely inspired? [/color]
1, Yes
a. What "all" versions? There are maybe 2. The Catholic version and the Protestant version (which is identical to the Catholic except for 7 books removed). So yes.
b. The Bible itself says so. The teaching arm of the Church (through the Holy Spirit) says so. The people of God (through the Holy Spirit) said so.
c1. Since the Book of Mormon, The Quran, and the Bible all in some ways contradict each other - they can't all be inspired.
c2. The Bible claims to be divinely "inspired" - inspired by God but written by men (through that inspiration) with all the limitations, cultural bias, style, and flawed human perspectives of a man but through grace with a divine message buried in there somewhere (ie....The Bible is the "Word" of God but NOT the "words" of God)
- The Quran and the Book of Morman on the other hand - claim to be "written by God" with Gods actual words simply transcribed by Joseph Smith and/or Muhammed. That puts their sacred words to a much higher standard since God's words should have no error. Any errors would then disprove their inspiration. Then easy enough to do. You could google a million articles on where both those books fall short of mark.
1a) Okay, but I thought there were many versions of the bible.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-versions.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_Bible_translations

1b) So you to believe it is divinely inspired because "it says so", and "the church and people say so". That means your belief is based on an earlier belief, that the bible is true and the church tells the truth because of the holy spirit.

This looks like circular thinking. I should have first asked why you think the bible is true, since that seems to come first.

1c) Oh, that is a very clever defense of the bible. If I understand correctly, you believe the bible is divinely inspired (because it says so and you believe the bible), but it was written by humans (so the words are human constructs) while the Qur'an and BoM are claimed to be the exact words of God.
All these documents contain contradictions and errors, but only for the bible all the problems/errors can be blamed on the "human construction". This means the errors can never be used as evidence against the claim of "divine inspiration". This guarantees the claim of "divine inspiration" is not falsifiable. Of course, others just reinterpret any contradictions/errors as metaphor, allegory, etc.

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