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How has the Catholic Church Reformed since the Reformation?; Catholicism is largely unknown by Protestant Churches, and generally though of as evil. What's changed?
Topic Started: Mar 10 2018, 05:22 PM (231 Views)
seraphim
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Topics such as indulgences, merit, Mary, Justification, Salvation and Predestination were in hot dispute at the reformation, and the Church suffered a schism. Has the Catholic Church reformed any of the teaching that ultimately led to the split?
Soli Deo gloria
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BigE

seraphim
Mar 10 2018, 05:22 PM
Topics such as indulgences, merit, Mary, Justification, Salvation and Predestination were in hot dispute at the reformation, and the Church suffered a schism. Has the Catholic Church reformed any of the teaching that ultimately led to the split?
None of those teachings needed reforming.
It was the abuse around any those teachings that needed to be (and has) been reformed (mostly indulgences).
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seraphim
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That's a fair answer. However, not being Catholic, I rely on internet searches to discover the meaning of words like purgatory, indulgence, and merit. Mary I'll leave aside for now! My understanding of purgatory and thus the need for indulgence and merit, goes to the heart of work vs. Grace and Christ's Blessed Propitiation vs. God crediting or 'good-work.' Help!
Soli Deo gloria
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Stef
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Hi Seraphim.
I am not sure what kind of help you are looking for and I know BigE will be away for one week at a retreat.
I am by far not a theologian and BigE is way better equipped than me in this area, still if you are curious about the position of the RCC about some topics I would suggest looking up either the Catholic Encyclopaedia or the Catholic Catechism. depending on the topic.

The Encyclopaedia can be found here:
http://www.catholicity.com/encyclopedia/ and here you get a good summary of what it's all about in the introduction http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/index.html

The official Catechism site can be found here:http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

When you open it for the first time it can look a wee bit daunting :) so here are a few steps I normally use to look up specifics as needed.

- select: Text & Search
- select: Words: alphabetical
- click on the letter corresponding to the initial letter of the word (for example “M”)
- CTRL+F
- type in the word you are looking for in the Find bar top of the page (for example 'merit' as this was one you mentioned) – enter
- a number of Paragraphs (CCC nr) will appear as applicable which include the chosen word - you can then click on any one for further reading
For example clicking on CCC2010 one reads:

2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life.

With regard to "merit" you may also find this link useful with regard to the Catholic' position on it.
https://www.catholic.com/tract/reward-and-merit

I hope this helped a little bit as I too am soon going to be away for a few days.

In friendship,
Stef

Edited by Stef, Mar 12 2018, 01:13 PM.
Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow. – Aesop
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seraphim
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Thanks much Stef. This has proved to be very helpful.
Soli Deo gloria
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BigE

seraphim
Mar 12 2018, 06:02 PM
Thanks much Stef. This has proved to be very helpful.
Don't let Stef fool you - he's every bit as knowledgeable about the Catholic Faith as me. Maybe more so.

And Stef IS a theologian, as I beleive we're all theologians: we're all on the journey of "our faith seeking understanding"!
Edited by BigE, Mar 17 2018, 06:23 AM.
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Harambe4Trump
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Well, it’s put a follower of Karl Marx, and not Jesus, on the throne of St Peter. I would hardly credit that as reform.
Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary.
#MAGA
#wallsnotwars
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Stef
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Harambe4Trump
Mar 23 2018, 10:25 PM
Well, it’s put a follower of Karl Marx, and not Jesus, on the throne of St Peter. I would hardly credit that as reform.
Would you care to give us some examples, quotes, links substantiating that statement?
Thank you.

Stef
Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow. – Aesop
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Harambe4Trump
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Stef
Mar 24 2018, 07:57 AM
Harambe4Trump
Mar 23 2018, 10:25 PM
Well, it’s put a follower of Karl Marx, and not Jesus, on the throne of St Peter. I would hardly credit that as reform.
Would you care to give us some examples, quotes, links substantiating that statement?
Thank you.

Stef
That Pope Francis uses the Communist Manifesto and not the Bible as his North Star is not exactly a state secret. John Paul II he is not.
Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary.
#MAGA
#wallsnotwars
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Stef
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Harambe4Trump
Mar 24 2018, 11:09 AM
Stef
Mar 24 2018, 07:57 AM
Harambe4Trump
Mar 23 2018, 10:25 PM
Well, it’s put a follower of Karl Marx, and not Jesus, on the throne of St Peter. I would hardly credit that as reform.
Would you care to give us some examples, quotes, links substantiating that statement?
Thank you.

Stef
That Pope Francis uses the Communist Manifesto and not the Bible as his North Star is not exactly a state secret. John Paul II he is not.
Again, would you care to give us some examples, quotes, links substantiating that statement? Or ... is it just blah, blah?
Waiting.

Thank you.
Stef
Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow. – Aesop
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Harambe4Trump
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Stef
Mar 24 2018, 01:16 PM
Harambe4Trump
Mar 24 2018, 11:09 AM
Stef
Mar 24 2018, 07:57 AM
Harambe4Trump
Mar 23 2018, 10:25 PM
Well, it’s put a follower of Karl Marx, and not Jesus, on the throne of St Peter. I would hardly credit that as reform.
Would you care to give us some examples, quotes, links substantiating that statement?
Thank you.

Stef
That Pope Francis uses the Communist Manifesto and not the Bible as his North Star is not exactly a state secret. John Paul II he is not.
Again, would you care to give us some examples, quotes, links substantiating that statement? Or ... is it just blah, blah?
Waiting.

Thank you.
Stef
https://youtu.be/m5eQxBbJmGg
Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary.
#MAGA
#wallsnotwars
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Stef
Member Avatar

Harambe4Trump
Mar 24 2018, 05:59 PM
Stef
Mar 24 2018, 01:16 PM
Harambe4Trump
Mar 24 2018, 11:09 AM
Stef
Mar 24 2018, 07:57 AM
Harambe4Trump
Mar 23 2018, 10:25 PM
Well, it’s put a follower of Karl Marx, and not Jesus, on the throne of St Peter. I would hardly credit that as reform.
Would you care to give us some examples, quotes, links substantiating that statement?
Thank you.

Stef
That Pope Francis uses the Communist Manifesto and not the Bible as his North Star is not exactly a state secret. John Paul II he is not.
Again, would you care to give us some examples, quotes, links substantiating that statement? Or ... is it just blah, blah?
Waiting.

Thank you.
Stef
https://youtu.be/m5eQxBbJmGg
Ah. It's blah, blah after all. And quite puerile blah, blah at that.
I thought for a moment you had something to say. My bad.
There again, am not truly surprised.
Have a good day.

Stef
Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow. – Aesop
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