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Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'
Topic Started: Mar 29 2018, 11:26 AM (953 Views)
George Aligator
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One of the basic tenants of Christianity and the Pope didn't know how to defend it. I mean, like, it's in the bible fer Chrissakes

The key issue and our distinguished colleague got it exactly wrong. Hell is not in the Bible. That is the fundamental point the pope made. The concept of a place of eternal torment following judgement of the soul of the deceased is not in the Bible. It is not a part of Jewish tradition. Is is an idea adopted from the Greeks and dramatized by pagans.

Christian belief does include both particular (individual) judgement following death and general judgement at the end of the world -- dead rising from their graves etc. Souls judged to have been good will enjoy the beatific vision -- consciousness in the presence of God. The damned will not be burned forever by devils etc. They simply cease to exist. That's what the pope said. That's what contemporary Catholic theologians teach.

BTW this ^^^ view fits within the broad range of America Protestantism. Check out the Universalists. You hate the pope for his politics but don't be so foolish as to engage him on the terrain of Biblical theology. Out of your league.
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W A Mozart
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W A Mozart
Mar 31 2018, 08:58 AM
BuckFan
Mar 30 2018, 02:11 PM
For the Righties at the beginning of this thread that denounced the Pope as denying Satan or evil.

He did not. What was reported was Hell but no where in that story does it say he said evil or Satan does not exist.
Reflections on the Pope, on Holy Saturday, over morning coffee..... :)

The Brasilians, the late Frank Sinatra and even the current Pope Francis (!) (so I'm told) want us to be drinking more morning coffee You bet. As a matter of fact, if we refuse to do so, and thus lead a sinful life, the Pope has issued an edict in the Vatican's Evangelium Vitae, dutifully noting that we will thus "disappear" when we die..... :oyvey (Er, I think that's what he said, in Latin, ..er, let me get back to you on that one... :) )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJIrDkzfIqo

First, as per the comments above, of course the Pope would deny having said such a thing. Don't be silly. That's the point of the uproar. He was "actually" forced to deny that he said it. Stunning, ...breathtaking stuff. If THAT statement, published in an interview with the Pope Francis by a self-described atheist, were NOT denied, the Pope, the Swiss Guard, the nuns and all the worker's in the smallest country on earth, the Vatican, may as well pack-up their bags, paintings and sculptures and move to Argentina. Although, although I don't know how-in-the-hell they're gonna be able to move Michelangelo's David in the process. That rascal has got to be, what, 30 feet from head to toe? To Argentina! I understand that Che has a spare bedroom or two in his basement, .... :) .

The more interesting point here is what was NOT said in the denial. It wasn't like Pope Francis re-affirmed the existence of Hell. It was a kind of shuffling of feet, a non-denial, denial. It was strange. It was weird. One of the basic tenants of Christianity and the Pope didn't know how to defend it. I mean, like, it's in the bible fer Chrissakes....! Did HE really believe what he "may have" told his atheist friend? Making-up Christian doctrine as he goes along? Just like liberals/commies make-up morality, all the time, as they go along? The parallels are what are interesting here. This is a 'far' left-wing Pope. Thoroughly indoctrinated in the gibberish of South American leftism. Kinda like incorporating "some of the good points" of the voodoo religion, santeria, with Catholic doctrine. But, only the good points, .... :lol: .

Weird. Strange....


Mozart
And then Georgie wrote......


Quote:
 
..."The key issue and our distinguished colleague got it exactly wrong. Hell is not in the Bible. That is the fundamental point the pope made. The concept of a place of eternal torment following judgement of the soul of the deceased is not in the Bible." ...


...."The term “hell” is found twenty-three times in the King James Version of the English Bible." ...
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/406-use-of-hell-in-the-new-testament-the


The apostle Peter wrote that:

“God spared not angels when they sinned, but cast them down to hell, and committed them to pits of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment . . .” (2 Pet. 2:4)." .......


...."the Lord said: “And be not afraid of them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul; but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” (Mt. 10:28; cf. Lk. 12:5). .....


:popcorn:


Mozart
Edited by W A Mozart, Mar 31 2018, 11:29 AM.
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Mr. Tik
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PATruth
Mar 30 2018, 09:12 AM
Che On The Rocks
Mar 30 2018, 01:32 AM
Theocratic States of Hell. :cool:
In Hell they are forced to eat flamingo soup and live without toilet paper.

Socialist States of Hell.
Yes, that is your liturgy, Pat. :cool:
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Che On The Rocks

The New York Times, SEPT. 18, 1999
Hell Is Getting A Makeover From Catholics; Jesuits Call It a Painful State But Not a Sulfurous Place
Quote:
 
But now the Catholic authorities in Rome have presented a strikingly different (and seemingly modern) picture of eternal damnation.

By their account, hell is best understood as the condition of total alienation from all that is good, hopeful and loving in the world. What's more, this condition is chosen by the damned themselves, the ultimate exercise of free will, not a punishment engineered by God.

Hell ''is not a 'place' but a 'state,' a person's 'state of being,' in which a person suffers from the deprivation of God,'' declared La Civilta Cattolica, an influential Jesuit magazine based in Rome and closely tied to the Vatican, in a long editorial in July.
Quote:
 
Within days of the editorial's publication, Pope John Paul II struck a similar note, telling visiting pilgrims that ''more than a physical place, hell is the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy.'' In other words, the Pope said, it is not a loving God who sends people to hell, but individuals who consign themselves to hell through unrepentant sin.


BBC, 30 March 2018
Vatican: Pope did not say there is no hell
Quote:
 
The Vatican has denied that Pope Francis told a well-known Italian journalist that "there is no hell".
Quote:
 
However, Cardinal Vincent Nichols, the most senior Catholic in England and Wales, said "there's nowhere in Catholic teaching that actually says any one person is in hell".

He told the BBC that the Pope was apparently exploring "the imagery of hell - fire and brimstone and all of that".

"That's never been part of Catholic teaching, it's been part of Catholic iconography, part of Christian iconography," he said.
Posted Image
Hell is fundamental to Christian iconography, as in this 16th-Century engraving

Psychology Today, Mar 31, 2018
Smile, There Is No Hell (Even the Pope Says So)
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As society changes, theology tries to adapt.
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The Pope, So many wars would never have happened, if the powerful had been at the service of the others!
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Coena Domini and lavender of feet at the Regina Coeli Prison. “A punishment that is not open to hope is neither Christian nor human”. He reveals that he will have surgery for cataracts and invites detainees to a “new gaze” open to hope
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The Pope heading to the Regina Coeli prison

The Pope, “Shame for a world devoured by wars and profit”
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About 20 thousand people at the Via Crucis at the Colosseum: “Attempts are being made to discredit the Church. Some ministers deceived by ambition and vain glory have lost their dignity”
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The Pope in prayer during the Via Crucis at the Colosseum

Pope baptizes Italy 'migrant hero' at Easter Eve service
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VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope Francis on Saturday led an Easter vigil service, baptizing eight adults, including a formerly undocumented Nigerian migrant beggar who became a hero when he disarmed an Italian thief wielding a cleaver.
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W A Mozart
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Che On The Rocks
Apr 1 2018, 05:43 AM
The New York Times, SEPT. 18, 1999
Hell Is Getting A Makeover From Catholics; Jesuits Call It a Painful State But Not a Sulfurous Place
Quote:
 
But now the Catholic authorities in Rome have presented a strikingly different (and seemingly modern) picture of eternal damnation.

By their account, hell is best understood as the condition of total alienation from all that is good, hopeful and loving in the world. What's more, this condition is chosen by the damned themselves, the ultimate exercise of free will, not a punishment engineered by God.

Hell ''is not a 'place' but a 'state,' a person's 'state of being,' in which a person suffers from the deprivation of God,'' declared La Civilta Cattolica, an influential Jesuit magazine based in Rome and closely tied to the Vatican, in a long editorial in July.
Quote:
 
Within days of the editorial's publication, Pope John Paul II struck a similar note, telling visiting pilgrims that ''more than a physical place, hell is the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy.'' In other words, the Pope said, it is not a loving God who sends people to hell, but individuals who consign themselves to hell through unrepentant sin.


Sifting through billions and billions of Brasilian coffee beans this morning (ahem....), with many secretly originating in Colombia, I found just a handful to throw into my coffee blender, brrrrr, brrrruuuum, brrrruuummmm, to arrive at an exquisite perfection of finely ground coffee beans to which I gleefully pour steaming hot water over. French roast. Heaven, on Easter Sunday morning. Wow, ...good stuff!

OK, OK, I could go with the Jesuits here.

After all, if anyone knows how to create a "hell-on-earth," the Jesuits would. Yup, they do. I should know, I attended a Jesuit high school. ( :spank: ....) Them boys are tough! Furthermore, you will please note from the article that it is NOT the existence of hell which is in question here, but merely who is the giver of eternal pain. Pain is pain, ....is pain! Being forced to listen to Hillary Clinton explaining "how she lost that election" in a locked room, forever and ever, would constitute PAIN. Excruciating pain. Right? Eternal, never-ending, ....pain. I think I'd rather go to a version of Dante's Hell than, .....experiencing anything like that! Right? My God, have mercy!

Quote:
 
...."The magazine also stated that it is not God who inflicts pain ''through angels or demons as is illustrated in many paintings or is read in the 'Divine Comedy,' '' but the sinner who triggers his own punishment by deliberately rejecting God's grace, thereby entering a great state of pain." ....


The definition of pain, according to the pain-giving Jesuits.



Mozart
Edited by W A Mozart, Apr 1 2018, 10:00 AM.
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George Aligator
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...."The term “hell” is found twenty-three times in the King James Version of the English Bible." ...

A rookie mistake: the key word in the quote is "English". The KJ translation into 17th century English by a group of radical Calvinists is not admissible evidence in cases about original Scripture. If you can't read koine Greek, STFU
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W A Mozart
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George Aligator
Apr 1 2018, 10:09 AM
Quote:
 
...."The term “hell” is found twenty-three times in the King James Version of the English Bible." ...

A rookie mistake: the key word in the quote is "English". The KJ translation into 17th century English by a group of radical Calvinists is not admissible evidence in cases about original Scripture. If you can't read koine Greek, STFU
Swearing Georgie, on Easter Sunday morning? Oh my.

Careful Georgie, you could be condemned to Hades, Tartaurus or Gehenna, and, and, ...you didn't even read the article, did you?...

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/406-use-of-hell-in-the-new-testament-the

:popcorn:

Mozart
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George Aligator
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W A Mozart
Apr 1 2018, 10:15 AM
George Aligator
Apr 1 2018, 10:09 AM
Quote:
 
...."The term “hell” is found twenty-three times in the King James Version of the English Bible." ...

A rookie mistake: the key word in the quote is "English". The KJ translation into 17th century English by a group of radical Calvinists is not admissible evidence in cases about original Scripture. If you can't read koine Greek, STFU
Swearing Georgie, on Easter Sunday morning? Oh my.

Careful Georgie, you could be condemned to Hades, Tartaurus or Gehenna, and, and, ...you didn't even read the article, did you?...

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/406-use-of-hell-in-the-new-testament-the

:popcorn:

Mozart
The notion that someone could be condemned to eternal torture for using the "F" word is exactly the sort of theological nonsense that the pope and his fellow theologians are attempting to erase from popular culture.
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clone
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PATruth
Mar 29 2018, 11:27 AM
He's never been to Detroit or San Francisco..
Listen to this for more than a minute and then tell me there is no hell....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VyOfDQZECc

Only liberals can choose not to go down the road to widespread, systematic violence.
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W A Mozart
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clone
Apr 1 2018, 11:55 AM
PATruth
Mar 29 2018, 11:27 AM
He's never been to Detroit or San Francisco..
Listen to this for more than a minute and then tell me there is no hell....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VyOfDQZECc

Little doubt that you pulled that off of a Jesuit web site.....? Right? Right?

:)

Mozart
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W A Mozart
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George Aligator
Apr 1 2018, 11:29 AM
W A Mozart
Apr 1 2018, 10:15 AM
George Aligator
Apr 1 2018, 10:09 AM
Quote:
 
...."The term “hell” is found twenty-three times in the King James Version of the English Bible." ...

A rookie mistake: the key word in the quote is "English". The KJ translation into 17th century English by a group of radical Calvinists is not admissible evidence in cases about original Scripture. If you can't read koine Greek, STFU
Swearing Georgie, on Easter Sunday morning? Oh my.

Careful Georgie, you could be condemned to Hades, Tartaurus or Gehenna, and, and, ...you didn't even read the article, did you?...

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/406-use-of-hell-in-the-new-testament-the

:popcorn:

Mozart
The notion that someone could be condemned to eternal torture for using the "F" word is exactly the sort of theological nonsense that the pope and his fellow theologians are attempting to erase from popular culture.
Well, ...maybe.

But I wouldn't venture into the basement for the next couple of days if I were you, ....... :)

Mozart
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Robert Stout
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George Aligator
Apr 1 2018, 10:09 AM
Quote:
 
...."The term “hell” is found twenty-three times in the King James Version of the English Bible." ...

A rookie mistake: the key word in the quote is "English". The KJ translation into 17th century English by a group of radical Calvinists is not admissible evidence in cases about original Scripture. If you can't read koine Greek, STFU
In Greek do they use the word "Detroit" ???............... :dunno:
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‘Hope and dignity:’ Pope calls for peace in Easter message
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VATICAN CITY (AP) — On Christianity’s most joyful day, Pope Francis called for peace in a world marked by war and conflict, “beginning with the beloved and long-suffering land of Syria” and extending to Israel, where 15 Palestinians were killed on the Israeli-Gaza border two days before Easter Sunday.
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Pope Francis delivers his Urbi et Orbi (to the city and to the world) message from the main balcony of St. Peter’s Basilica, at the Vatican, Sunday, April 1, 2018. (AP Photo/Gregorio Borgia)
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W A Mozart
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Che On The Rocks
Apr 2 2018, 05:09 AM
‘Hope and dignity:’ Pope calls for peace in Easter message
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VATICAN CITY (AP) — On Christianity’s most joyful day, Pope Francis called for peace in a world marked by war and conflict, “beginning with the beloved and long-suffering land of Syria” and extending to Israel, where 15 Palestinians were killed on the Israeli-Gaza border two days before Easter Sunday.
..."The church’s first pontiff from Latin America cited in particular the problems in Venezuela. He said he hoped the country would “find a just, peaceful and humane way to surmount quickly the political and humanitarian crises that grip it.” ....

Perhaps he could start by "condemning to hell" all those nefarious Venezuelan political leaders to whom he gave credence by inviting to the Vatican. You know, the Satanic cretins who are now forcing the Venezuela people to sift through garbage cans for their basic food and necessities. That would be a nice start.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3CwNY1FkQs


Mozart

Edited by W A Mozart, Apr 2 2018, 08:50 AM.
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George Aligator
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The suggestion ^^^ that Vatican policy in Venezuela should be investigated is a good one
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W A Mozart
Apr 2 2018, 08:48 AM
Perhaps he could start by "condemning to hell" all those nefarious Venezuelan political leaders to whom he gave credence by inviting to the Vatican. You know, the Satanic cretins who are now forcing the Venezuela people to sift through garbage cans for their basic food and necessities. That would be a nice start.
The last Pope backed Crusade was centuries ago, Wolfgang.

So, if Uncle Sam wants to destroy/invade Venezuela, he will have to do it as a secular murderer, more than a holy warrior. :cool:
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W A Mozart
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Che On The Rocks
Apr 3 2018, 07:29 AM
W A Mozart
Apr 2 2018, 08:48 AM
Perhaps he could start by "condemning to hell" all those nefarious Venezuelan political leaders to whom he gave credence by inviting to the Vatican. You know, the Satanic cretins who are now forcing the Venezuela people to sift through garbage cans for their basic food and necessities. That would be a nice start.
The last Pope backed Crusade was centuries ago, Wolfgang.

So, if Uncle Sam wants to destroy/invade Venezuela, he will have to do it as a secular murderer, more than a holy warrior. :cool:
No, ...no, ...no, you got it all wrong!

I am forming a "Crusade" to storm the Vatican, throw all of the rascals, ...out. "Everyone, grab a pitchfork, and to the Vatican!" Won't that be fun? We're gonna make it like the French Revolution, ....blazing flambeau's, pitchforks galore and 6 foot long pikes. Scare the hell of out of em..... :)

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