Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Perspectives. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
High-Paying Trade Jobs Sit Empty, While High School Grads Line Up For University
Topic Started: Apr 26 2018, 01:37 PM (500 Views)
_g R_
Member Avatar

Like most other American high school students, Garret Morgan had it drummed into him constantly: Go to college. Get a bachelor's degree.

"All through my life it was, 'if you don't go to college you're going to end up on the streets,' " Morgan said. "Everybody's so gung-ho about going to college." So he tried it for a while. Then he quit and started training as an ironworker, which is what he is doing on a weekday morning in a nondescript high-ceilinged building with a concrete floor in an industrial park near the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport.

Morgan and several other men and women are dressed in work boots, hard hats and Carhartt's, clipped to safety harnesses with heavy wrenches hanging from their belts. They're being timed as they wrestle 600-pound I-beams into place. Seattle is a forest of construction cranes, and employers are clamoring for skilled ironworkers.


https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/04/25/605092520/high-paying-trade-jobs-sit-empty-while-high-school-grads-line-up-for-university
Edited by _g R_, Apr 26 2018, 01:41 PM.
The real leftists are the silenced majority, the sleeping giant.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
_g R_
Member Avatar

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image
Edited by _g R_, Apr 26 2018, 01:46 PM.
The real leftists are the silenced majority, the sleeping giant.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Demagogue
Member Avatar
Administrator
Rubio championed training for these types of jobs when he was running for president and still champions them today. I don't think you would get much argument form most on the right when it comes to the value of encouraging a vocational path for folks who are more suited to it.

I have done both but I did the vocational stuff while also going to college. I have some serious issues about the crap courses required of people seeking engineering degrees. Courses that have zero to do with engineering. What a colossal waste of money those were.
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
BuckFan

Both sides of the political aisle are recognizing the benefit of trade training and are promoting it.

I think this is a good area for trade unions to get more involved. However, they have an incentive to limit training to keep their skill in demand, minizing supply and maximizing salaries. However, that is short sighted in a era of declining union membership and power.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Demagogue
Member Avatar
Administrator
BuckFan
Apr 26 2018, 01:51 PM
Both sides of the political aisle are recognizing the benefit of trade training and are promoting it.

I think this is a good area for trade unions to get more involved. However, they have an incentive to limit training to keep their skill in demand, minizing supply and maximizing salaries. However, that is short sighted in a era of declining union membership and power.
At this point I think that the steady drumbeat of College college college has really hurt the unions and even non-union trades in attracting talent.

A couple years ago a friend of mine asked me about the electrical trade for his son who had gone to some college and was working a factory type job now but wanted more. I told him I would check on him getting into the IBEW apprenticeship program but that I thought he would probably have to work for a year as a helper because it was already August at the time and usually the apprenticeship for the next year was full long before that.

Well, it shows how much I am out of touch with that area of the business now that mostly what I do is engineering. The gal down at the apprentice hall told me that if he could get his stuff together and come down in the next couple days he could make that year's class. (Classes began the next week).

Twenty years ago that apprenticeship would have been full easily over a month before classes began. It as good for my friend's kid but it shows that high school kids are not even looking at trades initially.
Edited by Demagogue, Apr 26 2018, 02:05 PM.
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
_g R_
Member Avatar

BuckFan
Apr 26 2018, 01:51 PM
Both sides of the political aisle are recognizing the benefit of trade training and are promoting it.

I think this is a good area for trade unions to get more involved. However, they have an incentive to limit training to keep their skill in demand, minizing supply and maximizing salaries. However, that is short sighted in a era of declining union membership and power.
What if we created a labor union which is directly connected to the teachers union and through
this affiliation restructure our vocational training in public schools and provide independent testing, councelling and expand the options for students as to which careers to choose from ? Maybe even require 1 year class devoted entirely to career choices in order to expand each students' range of possibilities.


Posted Image
Edited by _g R_, Apr 26 2018, 02:12 PM.
The real leftists are the silenced majority, the sleeping giant.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
PATruth
Member Avatar

Companies are offering signing bonuses and 6 digit salaries in PA for top quality welders. We have a steel company that's advertising for people on the radio, $27/hour with pension and zero contribution healthcare.

Maybe it's time to cut to government checks and see who decides to starve before working?
"No. No he won't. We'll stop it."
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Robert Stout
Member Avatar

It is far easier to earn a bachelors degree in sociology than complete a union electrician apprentice program....Also it is unlikely you will work after getting a degree in sociology................ :oyvey
Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
_g R_
Member Avatar

Robert Stout
Apr 26 2018, 02:42 PM
It is far easier to earn a bachelors degree in sociology than complete a union electrician apprentice program....Also it is unlikely you will work after getting a degree in sociology................ :oyvey
Right ? Let's see...2 years of college to be a Mental health councelor where I sit on my ass for 20 years and retire onto something else with full pension and health benefits

or electrician in some hot factory which may or may not shut down in 10 or 20 years which - better pay than the desk job but crappy benefits...

Tough choice.
Edited by _g R_, Apr 26 2018, 03:24 PM.
The real leftists are the silenced majority, the sleeping giant.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
PATruth
Member Avatar

_g R_
Apr 26 2018, 03:23 PM
Robert Stout
Apr 26 2018, 02:42 PM
It is far easier to earn a bachelors degree in sociology than complete a union electrician apprentice program....Also it is unlikely you will work after getting a degree in sociology................ :oyvey
Right ? Let's see...2 years of college to be a Mental health councelor where I sit on my ass for 20 years and retire onto something else with full pension and health benefits

or electrician in some hot factory which may or may not shut down in 10 or 20 years which crappy benefits...

Tough choice.
I can see you don't understand IBEW wages and benefits.
"No. No he won't. We'll stop it."
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
_g R_
Member Avatar

PATruth
Apr 26 2018, 03:24 PM
_g R_
Apr 26 2018, 03:23 PM
Robert Stout
Apr 26 2018, 02:42 PM
It is far easier to earn a bachelors degree in sociology than complete a union electrician apprentice program....Also it is unlikely you will work after getting a degree in sociology................ :oyvey
Right ? Let's see...2 years of college to be a Mental health councelor where I sit on my ass for 20 years and retire onto something else with full pension and health benefits

or electrician in some hot factory which may or may not shut down in 10 or 20 years which crappy benefits...

Tough choice.
I can see you don't understand IBEW wages and benefits.
I thought it was just UE or UEWA, and no I don't actually.
The real leftists are the silenced majority, the sleeping giant.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Demagogue
Member Avatar
Administrator
Robert Stout
Apr 26 2018, 02:42 PM
It is far easier to earn a bachelors degree in sociology than complete a union electrician apprentice program....Also it is unlikely you will work after getting a degree in sociology................ :oyvey
:rotflmao:

Very true. Additionally, the union Apprenticeship takes at least 4 years and it is 5 years in some areas. You also have to *gasp* work outside in the heat and cold during that apprenticeship. You will almost certainly be expected to employ a shovel in your work at some point and will probably have to work 8, 10 or even 12 hour shifts.

On days with class, you will be expected to work for 8 or 10 hours and then go to class.


I suppose that kind of work being required might convince some folks to consider racking up $100k in debt so that they can get drunk and high for 4 years while banging coeds. Of course they are all hoping that Bernie will bail them out of that debt...
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Katoblue
Member Avatar

apprenticeship program jobs pay 30-40k more a year when finished than a 4 year college degree.. that's been known for years.. good thing Trump is promoting apprenticeship jobs.. it too will help the economy.. and help get those on welfare off of it..



Killary, DNC, Obummer's DOJ and FBI all Lied and Spied and Good People Died!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
lucash
Member Avatar
#NeverTrump
My advice to my younger siblings and other relatives has always been - college can be an invaluable experience (I don't regret my 4 years one bit) and a great thing to pursue, but also keep in mind the realities of attending a 2 or 4 year university/college (or more if you're going to get a Masters or Doctorate). Sometimes you can go into a trade but pursue what you wanted to do at a traditional college elsewhere, or on the side while you're working in your trade.
Edited by lucash, Apr 26 2018, 03:38 PM.
"...a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is detrimental...having lost the will..to demand...good..." - Rachel Carson
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
PATruth
Member Avatar

_g R_
Apr 26 2018, 03:28 PM
PATruth
Apr 26 2018, 03:24 PM
_g R_
Apr 26 2018, 03:23 PM
Robert Stout
Apr 26 2018, 02:42 PM
It is far easier to earn a bachelors degree in sociology than complete a union electrician apprentice program....Also it is unlikely you will work after getting a degree in sociology................ :oyvey
Right ? Let's see...2 years of college to be a Mental health councelor where I sit on my ass for 20 years and retire onto something else with full pension and health benefits

or electrician in some hot factory which may or may not shut down in 10 or 20 years which crappy benefits...

Tough choice.
I can see you don't understand IBEW wages and benefits.
I thought it was just UE or UEWA, and no I don't actually.
International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, good pay, good benefits and great pension. Electricians will always be in demand. You can do side jobs and really make good cash.
"No. No he won't. We'll stop it."
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Katoblue
Member Avatar

lucash
Apr 26 2018, 03:37 PM
My advice to my younger siblings and other relatives has always been - college can be an invaluable experience (I don't regret my 4 years one bit) and a great thing to pursue, but also keep in mind the realities of attending a 2 or 4 year university/college (or more if you're going to get a Masters or Doctorate). Sometimes you can go into a trade but pursue what you wanted to do at a traditional college elsewhere, or on the side while you're working in your trade.
most people can't afford college today.. and why should they when they can get a bachelor and other degrees in apprenticeship programs and not pay for college, get paid on the job same rate as others do while being trained and don't end up with 100k in student loans when they finish the programs... that are 2, 4 and 6 year programs..

most students can't afford college today.. the apprenticeship programs are a way for those to get degree's and end up making more per year, than 4 year college students..





Killary, DNC, Obummer's DOJ and FBI all Lied and Spied and Good People Died!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Demagogue
Member Avatar
Administrator
PATruth
Apr 26 2018, 03:39 PM
_g R_
Apr 26 2018, 03:28 PM
PATruth
Apr 26 2018, 03:24 PM
_g R_
Apr 26 2018, 03:23 PM
Robert Stout
Apr 26 2018, 02:42 PM
It is far easier to earn a bachelors degree in sociology than complete a union electrician apprentice program....Also it is unlikely you will work after getting a degree in sociology................ :oyvey
Right ? Let's see...2 years of college to be a Mental health councelor where I sit on my ass for 20 years and retire onto something else with full pension and health benefits

or electrician in some hot factory which may or may not shut down in 10 or 20 years which crappy benefits...

Tough choice.
I can see you don't understand IBEW wages and benefits.
I thought it was just UE or UEWA, and no I don't actually.
International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, good pay, good benefits and great pension. Electricians will always be in demand. You can do side jobs and really make good cash.
IBEW is usually a construction union. I know that the Square-D factory workers are represented by the IBEW but most locals are construction unions.

Wages and benefits vary widely from local to local and it can sometimes be deceptively high. For example Local 3 in NYC has an hourly rate of $51/hr (might be more now) and the total benefits are around $105/hr whereas down in Florida the numbers are about 50%-60% of that. Of course cost of living in Florida is about 60% of NYC so it works out.

I have issues with government sector labor unions and even some factory unions because they exist only for the purpose of negotiations. Construction unions though train their workers. The running joke in the electrical world is that about 70% of non-union companies are owned by electricians who were trained by the union.

I still have issues with how some construction unions do business, especially in the northeast, but I won't fault their training. That is usually top notch.
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
BuckFan

PATruth
Apr 26 2018, 02:32 PM
Companies are offering signing bonuses and 6 digit salaries in PA for top quality welders. We have a steel company that's advertising for people on the radio, $27/hour with pension and zero contribution healthcare.

Maybe it's time to cut to government checks and see who decides to starve before working?
Do you have any evidence that people that could qualify for these jobs are sitting around collecting government checks? Any at all? Anything?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Demagogue
Member Avatar
Administrator
BuckFan
Apr 26 2018, 03:50 PM
PATruth
Apr 26 2018, 02:32 PM
Companies are offering signing bonuses and 6 digit salaries in PA for top quality welders. We have a steel company that's advertising for people on the radio, $27/hour with pension and zero contribution healthcare.

Maybe it's time to cut to government checks and see who decides to starve before working?
Do you have any evidence that people that could qualify for these jobs are sitting around collecting government checks? Any at all? Anything?
I think his point is that there are able bodied people sitting at their house collecting a welfare check while there union apprentice programs out there that can not get enough people to fully fill their classes.

With that said, you would still need to be able to pass the union's minimum qualifications and for the IBEW that does involve having the ability to do at the least algebra. Most locals have a test they give.
Edited by Demagogue, Apr 26 2018, 03:55 PM.
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
_g R_
Member Avatar

PATruth
Apr 26 2018, 03:39 PM
_g R_
Apr 26 2018, 03:28 PM
PATruth
Apr 26 2018, 03:24 PM
_g R_
Apr 26 2018, 03:23 PM
Robert Stout
Apr 26 2018, 02:42 PM
It is far easier to earn a bachelors degree in sociology than complete a union electrician apprentice program....Also it is unlikely you will work after getting a degree in sociology................ :oyvey
Right ? Let's see...2 years of college to be a Mental health councelor where I sit on my ass for 20 years and retire onto something else with full pension and health benefits

or electrician in some hot factory which may or may not shut down in 10 or 20 years which crappy benefits...

Tough choice.
I can see you don't understand IBEW wages and benefits.
I thought it was just UE or UEWA, and no I don't actually.
International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, good pay, good benefits and great pension. Electricians will always be in demand. You can do side jobs and really make good cash.
The only union I ever belonged to was CWA in the 80's when I was with AT&T ( construction division )
. Mostly troubleshooting lines, installing regenerators on long distance land lines - a lot of wenching out of muddy access clearings and fun stuff like that. A lot of OJT - splicing ...etc. Anyway that was before the cell phones came along and when the layoffs came, I never went back.
Edited by _g R_, Apr 26 2018, 03:56 PM.
The real leftists are the silenced majority, the sleeping giant.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · UnitedStates.com DOMESTIC U.S. news · Next Topic »
Add Reply