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The Teachers’ Revolt Spreads to Arizona
Topic Started: Apr 28 2018, 09:28 AM (349 Views)
Robert Stout
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Coast2coast
Apr 28 2018, 10:26 PM
PATruth
Apr 28 2018, 08:11 PM
Teachers will hopefully soon be replaced by intelligent interactive software. Software doesn't go on strike or seduce students.
Software doesn't deal with a kids special needs for the day or with trouble children. Software doesn't buy supplies for the classroom with their own money, or food for a hungry student, or a notebook for a needy kid. Software doesn't monitor lunchrooms or a schools playground.


Software is not human. It can instruct. It cannot teach.



There was a time when "special needs" students were not allowed in regular schools.......... :oyvey
Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid
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_g R_
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Robert Stout
Apr 29 2018, 03:32 AM
Coast2coast
Apr 28 2018, 10:26 PM
PATruth
Apr 28 2018, 08:11 PM
Teachers will hopefully soon be replaced by intelligent interactive software. Software doesn't go on strike or seduce students.
Software doesn't deal with a kids special needs for the day or with trouble children. Software doesn't buy supplies for the classroom with their own money, or food for a hungry student, or a notebook for a needy kid. Software doesn't monitor lunchrooms or a schools playground.


Software is not human. It can instruct. It cannot teach.



There was a time when "special needs" students were not allowed in regular schools.......... :oyvey
How did Betsy Devos ever graduate from one then ? Or was it private ?
The real leftists are the silenced majority, the sleeping giant.
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_g R_
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Outsmarting conservatives is so much fun.
The real leftists are the silenced majority, the sleeping giant.
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_g R_
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rixvcwYuLjk
The real leftists are the silenced majority, the sleeping giant.
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PATruth
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Coast2coast
Apr 28 2018, 10:26 PM
PATruth
Apr 28 2018, 08:11 PM
Teachers will hopefully soon be replaced by intelligent interactive software. Software doesn't go on strike or seduce students.
Software doesn't deal with a kids special needs for the day or with trouble children. Software doesn't buy supplies for the classroom with their own money, or food for a hungry student, or a notebook for a needy kid. Software doesn't monitor lunchrooms or a schools playground.


Software is not human. It can instruct. It cannot teach.



Today's education has changed little in 200 years, it's very regressive because it's been hijacked by progressives who are only concerned about their own pay, benefits and pensions.

If we eliminated teachers salaries, pensions and healthcare we could easily provide computers, supplies and more attention to special needs children. Remember, computers don't go on strike, they don't molest students, they focus on curriculum and they won't teach students to hate their country and to become victims! Yes ẃe can!
Edited by PATruth, Apr 29 2018, 08:47 AM.
"No. No he won't. We'll stop it."
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jake58

As Albert Shanker, the late, iconic head of the UFT, once pointedly put it, “When schoolchildren start paying union dues, that’s when I’ll start representing the interests of schoolchildren.”
That which can be asserted without evidence; can be dismissed without evidence- Christopher Hitchens
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George Aligator
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PATruth
Apr 29 2018, 08:46 AM
Coast2coast
Apr 28 2018, 10:26 PM
PATruth
Apr 28 2018, 08:11 PM
Teachers will hopefully soon be replaced by intelligent interactive software. Software doesn't go on strike or seduce students.
Software doesn't deal with a kids special needs for the day or with trouble children. Software doesn't buy supplies for the classroom with their own money, or food for a hungry student, or a notebook for a needy kid. Software doesn't monitor lunchrooms or a schools playground.


Software is not human. It can instruct. It cannot teach.



Today's education has changed little in 200 years, it's very regressive because it's been hijacked by progressives who are only concerned about their own pay, benefits and pensions.

If we eliminated teachers salaries, pensions and healthcare we could easily provide computers, supplies and more attention to special needs children. Remember, computers don't go on strike, they don't molest students, they focus on curriculum and they won't teach students to hate their country and to become victims! Yes ẃe can!
PATruth has staked out a good position at the tech end of the spectrum of educational theory. On line courses, foreign language taught on cell phones, etc. are already changing the classroom experience for schools that can afford the technology. Books and blackboards (well, whiteboards actually) are shrinking fast. The implications for school are as revolutionary as any place else in the vast, new information industry.

However, when you get down on the ground or in the classroom, the needs of kids in schools becomes more subtle and more challenging. Like any other machine, the computer or the smart phone has a prerequisite of skills and abilities which are necessary before the equipment can be successfully operated to achieve the desired results. For kids, this means both financial capital and social capital. I know, I know, your pre-schooler can push the necessary buttons to have the desired entertaining experience, but systematic acquisition of skills and understanding take some mental and emotional behaviors that don't come naturally to kids. The human teacher does things no computer can duplicate. The gap is greater among less technically equipped family households and for kids with special needs.

It is an interesting fact that the most desirable private school among top executives in Silicone Valley's high-tech corporations is the Waldorf School, where the emphasis couldn't be further from the computers-in-the-classroom idea.
Conservatism is a social disease
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edro14

Public schools. where they money goes for supplies and administrators salaries. Where curriculum changes from year to year. And where text books get recycled directly to the trash can and the end of every school cycle.

Public schools where the teachers are the jailies and the students the tormentors. Where the students do what they want and the parents berate the teachers and the PTA for lack of disciple in the schools. But dare a teacher disciple a student and the district get sued!

Yep there is no reason for a teacher revolt.
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George Aligator
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There are 13,500 school districts in the US. Each has several schools K-12. Some, like the school districts in major cities have hundred of schools. There are over fifty million kids in public schools. U.S. pubic education is ranked 17th in the world, not a very distinguished position for the richest nation. Needless to say, the range of quality is the key factor here because public schools are regulated at the state level and are supported by local property taxes. The per-pupil expenditure varies more in the USA than any other advanced democracy. Average teacher salaries vary from the 70s in the highest paying states to the 40s in the lowest, a very significant differential.

The size and the complexity of our pubic education system cannot be usefully discussed with mindless and undocumented nonsense such as that posted above.
Conservatism is a social disease
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_g R_
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Jerry Falwell Sr. outlined the goal in his 1979 book “America Can Be Saved!” He said he hoped to see the day when there wouldn’t be “any public schools — the churches will have taken them over and Christians will be running them.”

Vouchers are part of the program. According to an educational scholar, they originally came into fashion among Southern conservatives seeking to support segregation in schools. But activists soon grasped that vouchers could be useful in a general assault on public education. As Joseph Bast, president of the Heartland Institute, which receives support from a DeVos-funded donor group, explained: “Complete privatization of schooling might be desirable, but this objective is politically impossible for the time being. Vouchers are a type of reform that is possible now.

The DeVoses well understand that, stripped of specious language about reform and choice, such a plan for public education would be deeply unpopular. In 2002, Mr. DeVos Jr. advised a Heritage Foundation audience that “we need to be cautious about talking too much about these activities.”

The public school system faces the most immediate threat, but it is not the only institution at risk. The Christian right has already won a number of key roles in the Trump administration.

The head of the presidential transition, Vice President-elect Mike Pence, is an avid voucher proponent. As governor of Indiana, he expanded a voucher program that now funnels $135 million a year to private schools, almost all of them religious. Mr. Trump’s nominee for attorney general, Jeff Sessions, favors religious tests for new immigrants and objects to chief justices with “secular mind-sets.” The nominee for secretary of health and human services, Tom Price, is a member of a physicians’ organization aligned with conservative Christian positions on abortion and other issues.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/opinion/betsy-devos-and-gods-plan-for-schools.html
The real leftists are the silenced majority, the sleeping giant.
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Robert Stout
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George Aligator
Apr 29 2018, 05:59 PM
There are 13,500 school districts in the US. Each has several schools K-12. Some, like the school districts in major cities have hundred of schools. There are over fifty million kids in public schools. U.S. pubic education is ranked 17th in the world, not a very distinguished position for the richest nation. Needless to say, the range of quality is the key factor here because public schools are regulated at the state level and are supported by local property taxes. The per-pupil expenditure varies more in the USA than any other advanced democracy. Average teacher salaries vary from the 70s in the highest paying states to the 40s in the lowest, a very significant differential.

The size and the complexity of our pubic education system cannot be usefully discussed with mindless and undocumented nonsense such as that posted above.
I suppose you can show a correlation between academic achievement and teacher salaries....Put up or shut up.................. :)
Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid
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George Aligator
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Quote:
 
I suppose you can show a correlation between academic achievement and teacher salaries....Put up or shut up.................. :)

Your impolite command is ignored. Your request is not unreasonable but the topic is too vast for an on-line post. Academic achievement as defined by standardized national testing does correlate to teachers' salaries, although the correlation is not 100% (no correlation is). Teachers' salaries are influenced by cost of living and median salaries in the states. This further complicates the calculation. Student achievement is also effected by parent education level, class size and other factors. Student achievement correlates strongly with teacher education level.

Here are two rankings. I think the reflect the correlation you ask for:
The 10 states where teachers get paid the most:

1. Alaska: $77,843

2. New York: $76,593

3. Connecticut: $75,867

4. California: $72,050

5. Massachusetts: $71,587

6. New Jersey: $70,700

7. Rhode Island: $67,533

8. Maryland: $65,257

9. Illinois: $65,153

10. Virginia: $63,493

The 10 states where teachers get paid the least:

1. Mississippi: $42,043

2. Oklahoma: $42,647

3. South Dakota: $43,200

4. North Carolina: $43,587

5. Arizona: $43,800

6. West Virginia: $45,477

7. Arkansas: $47,053

8. Idaho: $47,063

9. Kansas: $47,127

10. Louisiana: $48,587

http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/teacherbeat/2017/02/which_states_pay_teachers_the_.html?cmp=cpc-goog-ew-topics&ccid=topics&ccag=Teacher+Pay+Article&cckw=%2Bteacher%20%2Bsalary%20%2Bby%20%2Bstate&cccv=content+specific+ad&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrZHQoYXi2gIVUQeGCh0_CgNHEAAYASAAEgIyqfD_BwE

Try and contribute something next time
Conservatism is a social disease
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PATruth
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George Aligator
Apr 29 2018, 09:26 AM
PATruth
Apr 29 2018, 08:46 AM
Coast2coast
Apr 28 2018, 10:26 PM
PATruth
Apr 28 2018, 08:11 PM
Teachers will hopefully soon be replaced by intelligent interactive software. Software doesn't go on strike or seduce students.
Software doesn't deal with a kids special needs for the day or with trouble children. Software doesn't buy supplies for the classroom with their own money, or food for a hungry student, or a notebook for a needy kid. Software doesn't monitor lunchrooms or a schools playground.


Software is not human. It can instruct. It cannot teach.



Today's education has changed little in 200 years, it's very regressive because it's been hijacked by progressives who are only concerned about their own pay, benefits and pensions.

If we eliminated teachers salaries, pensions and healthcare we could easily provide computers, supplies and more attention to special needs children. Remember, computers don't go on strike, they don't molest students, they focus on curriculum and they won't teach students to hate their country and to become victims! Yes ẃe can!
PATruth has staked out a good position at the tech end of the spectrum of educational theory. On line courses, foreign language taught on cell phones, etc. are already changing the classroom experience for schools that can afford the technology. Books and blackboards (well, whiteboards actually) are shrinking fast. The implications for school are as revolutionary as any place else in the vast, new information industry.

However, when you get down on the ground or in the classroom, the needs of kids in schools becomes more subtle and more challenging. Like any other machine, the computer or the smart phone has a prerequisite of skills and abilities which are necessary before the equipment can be successfully operated to achieve the desired results. For kids, this means both financial capital and social capital. I know, I know, your pre-schooler can push the necessary buttons to have the desired entertaining experience, but systematic acquisition of skills and understanding take some mental and emotional behaviors that don't come naturally to kids. The human teacher does things no computer can duplicate. The gap is greater among less technically equipped family households and for kids with special needs.

It is an interesting fact that the most desirable private school among top executives in Silicone Valley's high-tech corporations is the Waldorf School, where the emphasis couldn't be further from the computers-in-the-classroom idea.
Neither affluent conservatives or liberals want to send their children to inner city schools or even most public schools for that matter. Conservatives prefer school choice and protecting their well funded local schools from "outsiders." The left prefer uniform funding and busing, basically eliminating the benefits from doing well and living in a nice neighborhood. Neither are addressing the problem.

Intelligent, interactive teaching programs will eventually provide the most effective, cost saving and uniform education to the masses. That's not to say teachers will be eliminated entirely but core curriculum will be taught by advanced computer programs. They will eventually be like one on one education without the cost. No child will be held back by the group and no slow child will be denied individual assistance.

These systems are simply a matter of time, they will remake our primary education system. The sooner the better as far as I'm concerned.
"No. No he won't. We'll stop it."
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George Aligator
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I don't see technology replacing the role of teacher but it will transform it an provide for some staff reduction. On that we agree.
Conservatism is a social disease
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PATruth
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George Aligator
Apr 30 2018, 11:37 AM
I don't see technology replacing the role of teacher but it will transform it an provide for some staff reduction. On that we agree.
Disrupting/modernizing a multi-billion dollar a year business controlled by unionized government employees will be like modernizing the failing USPS. Vested interests rule, the good of the people isn't a consideration.
Edited by PATruth, Apr 30 2018, 03:32 PM.
"No. No he won't. We'll stop it."
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Coast2coast

PATruth
Apr 29 2018, 08:46 AM
Coast2coast
Apr 28 2018, 10:26 PM
PATruth
Apr 28 2018, 08:11 PM
Teachers will hopefully soon be replaced by intelligent interactive software. Software doesn't go on strike or seduce students.
Software doesn't deal with a kids special needs for the day or with trouble children. Software doesn't buy supplies for the classroom with their own money, or food for a hungry student, or a notebook for a needy kid. Software doesn't monitor lunchrooms or a schools playground.


Software is not human. It can instruct. It cannot teach.



Today's education has changed little in 200 years, it's very regressive because it's been hijacked by progressives who are only concerned about their own pay, benefits and pensions.

If we eliminated teachers salaries, pensions and healthcare we could easily provide computers, supplies and more attention to special needs children. Remember, computers don't go on strike, they don't molest students, they focus on curriculum and they won't teach students to hate their country and to become victims! Yes ẃe can!
As soon as you write - "...hijacked by progressives who are only concerned about their own pay, benefits and pensions." we're done because you are on a conservative political rant that disrespects the vast majority of amazing men and women who are dedicated educators teaching our nations children. And that also have a right to expect a living wage for the job they do.

Men and women will educate our children and not machines or we will produce machines and not educated free thinking indiiduals.




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_g R_
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George Aligator
Apr 30 2018, 09:01 AM
Quote:
 
I suppose you can show a correlation between academic achievement and teacher salaries....Put up or shut up.................. :)

Your impolite command is ignored. Your request is not unreasonable but the topic is too vast for an on-line post. Academic achievement as defined by standardized national testing does correlate to teachers' salaries, although the correlation is not 100% (no correlation is). Teachers' salaries are influenced by cost of living and median salaries in the states. This further complicates the calculation. Student achievement is also effected by parent education level, class size and other factors. Student achievement correlates strongly with teacher education level.

Here are two rankings. I think the reflect the correlation you ask for:
The 10 states where teachers get paid the most:


http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/teacherbeat/2017/02/which_states_pay_teachers_the_.html?cmp=cpc-goog-ew-topics&ccid=topics&ccag=Teacher+Pay+Article&cckw=%2Bteacher%20%2Bsalary%20%2Bby%20%2Bstate&cccv=content+specific+ad&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrZHQoYXi2gIVUQeGCh0_CgNHEAAYASAAEgIyqfD_BwE

Try and contribute something next time
It should be noted that when you factor in the cost of living in each area, a teacher making $ 47 k in Arkansas or Louisiana is probably better off financially than a teacher in Cailifornia or New York making $75k.
The real leftists are the silenced majority, the sleeping giant.
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PATruth
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Coast2coast
Apr 30 2018, 03:46 PM
PATruth
Apr 29 2018, 08:46 AM
Coast2coast
Apr 28 2018, 10:26 PM
PATruth
Apr 28 2018, 08:11 PM
Teachers will hopefully soon be replaced by intelligent interactive software. Software doesn't go on strike or seduce students.
Software doesn't deal with a kids special needs for the day or with trouble children. Software doesn't buy supplies for the classroom with their own money, or food for a hungry student, or a notebook for a needy kid. Software doesn't monitor lunchrooms or a schools playground.


Software is not human. It can instruct. It cannot teach.



Today's education has changed little in 200 years, it's very regressive because it's been hijacked by progressives who are only concerned about their own pay, benefits and pensions.

If we eliminated teachers salaries, pensions and healthcare we could easily provide computers, supplies and more attention to special needs children. Remember, computers don't go on strike, they don't molest students, they focus on curriculum and they won't teach students to hate their country and to become victims! Yes ẃe can!
As soon as you write - "...hijacked by progressives who are only concerned about their own pay, benefits and pensions." we're done because you are on a conservative political rant that disrespects the vast majority of amazing men and women who are dedicated educators teaching our nations children. And that also have a right to expect a living wage for the job they do.

Men and women will educate our children and not machines or we will produce machines and not educated free thinking indiiduals.




You aren't able to see the future are you? Intelligent, interactive software WILL educate our children. It will eliminate the discrepancy between rich and poor students, it won't go on strike and it won't poison the minds of our children like the current bunch of liberal unionized teachers.

It's just a matter of time.
"No. No he won't. We'll stop it."
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George Aligator
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_g R_
Apr 30 2018, 03:49 PM
George Aligator
Apr 30 2018, 09:01 AM
Quote:
 
I suppose you can show a correlation between academic achievement and teacher salaries....Put up or shut up.................. :)

Your impolite command is ignored. Your request is not unreasonable but the topic is too vast for an on-line post. Academic achievement as defined by standardized national testing does correlate to teachers' salaries, although the correlation is not 100% (no correlation is). Teachers' salaries are influenced by cost of living and median salaries in the states. This further complicates the calculation. Student achievement is also effected by parent education level, class size and other factors. Student achievement correlates strongly with teacher education level.

Here are two rankings. I think the reflect the correlation you ask for:
The 10 states where teachers get paid the most:


http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/teacherbeat/2017/02/which_states_pay_teachers_the_.html?cmp=cpc-goog-ew-topics&ccid=topics&ccag=Teacher+Pay+Article&cckw=%2Bteacher%20%2Bsalary%20%2Bby%20%2Bstate&cccv=content+specific+ad&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrZHQoYXi2gIVUQeGCh0_CgNHEAAYASAAEgIyqfD_BwE

Try and contribute something next time
It should be noted that when you factor in the cost of living in each area, a teacher making $ 47 k in Arkansas or Louisiana is probably better off financially than a teacher in Cailifornia or New York making $75k.
State income averages are often misleading without knowing the standard deviation. Salaries are negotiated by local school boards and are based on regional cost of living. It is true that housing costs in San Francisco are so high that despite the relatively high salary scale, many teachers commute hours each way to school and back. A similar situation prevails in New York City. Similar issues are found in other jobs in these special locations. If you look at the details in these #RedForEd areas, the issue is the failure of teacher salaries to keep up with living costs and raises in comparable job areas.
Conservatism is a social disease
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Coast2coast

PATruth
Apr 30 2018, 03:51 PM
Coast2coast
Apr 30 2018, 03:46 PM
PATruth
Apr 29 2018, 08:46 AM
Coast2coast
Apr 28 2018, 10:26 PM
PATruth
Apr 28 2018, 08:11 PM
Teachers will hopefully soon be replaced by intelligent interactive software. Software doesn't go on strike or seduce students.
Software doesn't deal with a kids special needs for the day or with trouble children. Software doesn't buy supplies for the classroom with their own money, or food for a hungry student, or a notebook for a needy kid. Software doesn't monitor lunchrooms or a schools playground.


Software is not human. It can instruct. It cannot teach.



Today's education has changed little in 200 years, it's very regressive because it's been hijacked by progressives who are only concerned about their own pay, benefits and pensions.

If we eliminated teachers salaries, pensions and healthcare we could easily provide computers, supplies and more attention to special needs children. Remember, computers don't go on strike, they don't molest students, they focus on curriculum and they won't teach students to hate their country and to become victims! Yes ẃe can!
As soon as you write - "...hijacked by progressives who are only concerned about their own pay, benefits and pensions." we're done because you are on a conservative political rant that disrespects the vast majority of amazing men and women who are dedicated educators teaching our nations children. And that also have a right to expect a living wage for the job they do.

Men and women will educate our children and not machines or we will produce machines and not educated free thinking indiiduals.




You aren't able to see the future are you? Intelligent, interactive software WILL educate our children. It will eliminate the discrepancy between rich and poor students, it won't go on strike and it won't poison the minds of our children like the current bunch of liberal unionized teachers.

It's just a matter of time.
The future? No, its not the future.

We teach children in schools, not institutions. You don't raise a healthy child by machine.

Your entire rant is about political bias and it could not care a wit about the students.



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