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Falling from Grace - The Rise and Fall of the Quebec Catholic Church
Topic Started: Jul 30 2018, 09:46 AM (826 Views)
George Aligator
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For most of my life I have had a serious love affair going with Quebec, the predominately French-speaking region of Canada. But, as with most affairs of the heart, this particular romance has had its ups and downs - frequently in response to the breathtaking twists and turns of Quebec politics. Even so, it is a romance that has stood the test of time - and decades later it remains as heart-felt as ever.

But just because I’m fascinated by Quebec doesn’t mean that I fully understand everything that goes on in the place. Far from it in fact! And one of the biggest mysteries for me has always been how decades back Quebec could have gone from being one of the most Catholic nations on earth to becoming one of the most anti-Catholic areas of the planet - a change that seemed to occur more or less overnight.

One day Quebec was an adoring elder daughter of Rome. The next day it was an anti-Catholic nightmare crawling with militant secularists determined to erase every last vestige of the Province’s religious past.

http://www.culturewitness.com/2017/07/falling-from-grace-rise-and-fall-of.html
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George Aligator
Jul 30 2018, 09:46 AM
For most of my life I have had a serious love affair going with Quebec, the predominately French-speaking region of Canada. But, as with most affairs of the heart, this particular romance has had its ups and downs - frequently in response to the breathtaking twists and turns of Quebec politics. Even so, it is a romance that has stood the test of time - and decades later it remains as heart-felt as ever.

But just because I’m fascinated by Quebec doesn’t mean that I fully understand everything that goes on in the place. Far from it in fact! And one of the biggest mysteries for me has always been how decades back Quebec could have gone from being one of the most Catholic nations on earth to becoming one of the most anti-Catholic areas of the planet - a change that seemed to occur more or less overnight.

One day Quebec was an adoring elder daughter of Rome. The next day it was an anti-Catholic nightmare crawling with militant secularists determined to erase every last vestige of the Province’s religious past.

http://www.culturewitness.com/2017/07/falling-from-grace-rise-and-fall-of.html
I spent a fair amount of time in and around Quebec during the 60's and 70's. It was I think, in the late 50's the revolution started. Poverty was very high due to the Church's insistence on large families and opposition to contraception and abortion. The women got sick and tired of it and started using contraception anyway. Amongst all this poverty were the huge churches in the smallest towns. The only overweight person was the priest and the only new car every year was the priest's. Many of the children of these women grew up with a healthy disrespect for the RCC as a result, Attendance began dropping off in the 60's and have continued to do so. Add to it the ongoing sexua abuse by priests which, will never prosecuted, was well known in the communities.

Today, there are many of the churches closed for lack of attendance and also because boys entering seminaries is no longer seen as a good thing. IOW, they ran out of priests, but not peophiles.

So, the church brought it all upon itself and Quebec may well prove to be a template for the rest of the world. This is good thing.
Religion in general and xianity in particular, is the worst scourge, the foulest plague to ever beset mankind.
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George Aligator
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Jul 30 2018, 10:55 AM
George Aligator
Jul 30 2018, 09:46 AM
For most of my life I have had a serious love affair going with Quebec, the predominately French-speaking region of Canada. But, as with most affairs of the heart, this particular romance has had its ups and downs - frequently in response to the breathtaking twists and turns of Quebec politics. Even so, it is a romance that has stood the test of time - and decades later it remains as heart-felt as ever.

But just because I’m fascinated by Quebec doesn’t mean that I fully understand everything that goes on in the place. Far from it in fact! And one of the biggest mysteries for me has always been how decades back Quebec could have gone from being one of the most Catholic nations on earth to becoming one of the most anti-Catholic areas of the planet - a change that seemed to occur more or less overnight.

One day Quebec was an adoring elder daughter of Rome. The next day it was an anti-Catholic nightmare crawling with militant secularists determined to erase every last vestige of the Province’s religious past.

http://www.culturewitness.com/2017/07/falling-from-grace-rise-and-fall-of.html
I spent a fair amount of time in and around Quebec during the 60's and 70's. It was I think, in the late 50's the revolution started. Poverty was very high due to the Church's insistence on large families and opposition to contraception and abortion. The women got sick and tired of it and started using contraception anyway. Amongst all this poverty were the huge churches in the smallest towns. The only overweight person was the priest and the only new car every year was the priest's. Many of the children of these women grew up with a healthy disrespect for the RCC as a result, Attendance began dropping off in the 60's and have continued to do so. Add to it the ongoing sexua abuse by priests which, will never prosecuted, was well known in the communities.

Today, there are many of the churches closed for lack of attendance and also because boys entering seminaries is no longer seen as a good thing. IOW, they ran out of priests, but not peophiles.

So, the church brought it all upon itself and Quebec may well prove to be a template for the rest of the world. This is good thing.
The RCC as we know it is an absolute monarchy run on a 19th century model which blundered away its once significant power until Mussolini delivered the coup de grace. It is hard to see things surviving. The only possibility I can imagine is to do a quick 180 degree flip on married woman priests. The Church still has some strength in parts of Africa and Latin America but history is catching up with it.
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George Aligator
Jul 30 2018, 11:34 AM
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Jul 30 2018, 10:55 AM
George Aligator
Jul 30 2018, 09:46 AM
For most of my life I have had a serious love affair going with Quebec, the predominately French-speaking region of Canada. But, as with most affairs of the heart, this particular romance has had its ups and downs - frequently in response to the breathtaking twists and turns of Quebec politics. Even so, it is a romance that has stood the test of time - and decades later it remains as heart-felt as ever.

But just because I’m fascinated by Quebec doesn’t mean that I fully understand everything that goes on in the place. Far from it in fact! And one of the biggest mysteries for me has always been how decades back Quebec could have gone from being one of the most Catholic nations on earth to becoming one of the most anti-Catholic areas of the planet - a change that seemed to occur more or less overnight.

One day Quebec was an adoring elder daughter of Rome. The next day it was an anti-Catholic nightmare crawling with militant secularists determined to erase every last vestige of the Province’s religious past.

http://www.culturewitness.com/2017/07/falling-from-grace-rise-and-fall-of.html
I spent a fair amount of time in and around Quebec during the 60's and 70's. It was I think, in the late 50's the revolution started. Poverty was very high due to the Church's insistence on large families and opposition to contraception and abortion. The women got sick and tired of it and started using contraception anyway. Amongst all this poverty were the huge churches in the smallest towns. The only overweight person was the priest and the only new car every year was the priest's. Many of the children of these women grew up with a healthy disrespect for the RCC as a result, Attendance began dropping off in the 60's and have continued to do so. Add to it the ongoing sexua abuse by priests which, will never prosecuted, was well known in the communities.

Today, there are many of the churches closed for lack of attendance and also because boys entering seminaries is no longer seen as a good thing. IOW, they ran out of priests, but not peophiles.

So, the church brought it all upon itself and Quebec may well prove to be a template for the rest of the world. This is good thing.
The RCC as we know it is an absolute monarchy run on a 19th century model which blundered away its once significant power until Mussolini delivered the coup de grace. It is hard to see things surviving. The only possibility I can imagine is to do a quick 180 degree flip on married woman priests. The Church still has some strength in parts of Africa and Latin America but history is catching up with it.
Lol.
People have been saying that about the Church for going on 2,000 years now.
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BigE
Jul 30 2018, 11:55 AM
George Aligator
Jul 30 2018, 11:34 AM
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Jul 30 2018, 10:55 AM
George Aligator
Jul 30 2018, 09:46 AM
For most of my life I have had a serious love affair going with Quebec, the predominately French-speaking region of Canada. But, as with most affairs of the heart, this particular romance has had its ups and downs - frequently in response to the breathtaking twists and turns of Quebec politics. Even so, it is a romance that has stood the test of time - and decades later it remains as heart-felt as ever.

But just because I’m fascinated by Quebec doesn’t mean that I fully understand everything that goes on in the place. Far from it in fact! And one of the biggest mysteries for me has always been how decades back Quebec could have gone from being one of the most Catholic nations on earth to becoming one of the most anti-Catholic areas of the planet - a change that seemed to occur more or less overnight.

One day Quebec was an adoring elder daughter of Rome. The next day it was an anti-Catholic nightmare crawling with militant secularists determined to erase every last vestige of the Province’s religious past.

http://www.culturewitness.com/2017/07/falling-from-grace-rise-and-fall-of.html
I spent a fair amount of time in and around Quebec during the 60's and 70's. It was I think, in the late 50's the revolution started. Poverty was very high due to the Church's insistence on large families and opposition to contraception and abortion. The women got sick and tired of it and started using contraception anyway. Amongst all this poverty were the huge churches in the smallest towns. The only overweight person was the priest and the only new car every year was the priest's. Many of the children of these women grew up with a healthy disrespect for the RCC as a result, Attendance began dropping off in the 60's and have continued to do so. Add to it the ongoing sexua abuse by priests which, will never prosecuted, was well known in the communities.

Today, there are many of the churches closed for lack of attendance and also because boys entering seminaries is no longer seen as a good thing. IOW, they ran out of priests, but not peophiles.

So, the church brought it all upon itself and Quebec may well prove to be a template for the rest of the world. This is good thing.
The RCC as we know it is an absolute monarchy run on a 19th century model which blundered away its once significant power until Mussolini delivered the coup de grace. It is hard to see things surviving. The only possibility I can imagine is to do a quick 180 degree flip on married woman priests. The Church still has some strength in parts of Africa and Latin America but history is catching up with it.
Lol.
People have been saying that about the Church for going on 2,000 years now.
Interesting, considering the church is only about 1400 year old. The myth is about 2000, well older, since they stole the rising god yarn from much older pagan myths. :rollseyes:
Religion in general and xianity in particular, is the worst scourge, the foulest plague to ever beset mankind.
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BigE

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Jul 30 2018, 02:53 PM
BigE
Jul 30 2018, 11:55 AM
George Aligator
Jul 30 2018, 11:34 AM
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Jul 30 2018, 10:55 AM
George Aligator
Jul 30 2018, 09:46 AM
For most of my life I have had a serious love affair going with Quebec, the predominately French-speaking region of Canada. But, as with most affairs of the heart, this particular romance has had its ups and downs - frequently in response to the breathtaking twists and turns of Quebec politics. Even so, it is a romance that has stood the test of time - and decades later it remains as heart-felt as ever.

But just because I’m fascinated by Quebec doesn’t mean that I fully understand everything that goes on in the place. Far from it in fact! And one of the biggest mysteries for me has always been how decades back Quebec could have gone from being one of the most Catholic nations on earth to becoming one of the most anti-Catholic areas of the planet - a change that seemed to occur more or less overnight.

One day Quebec was an adoring elder daughter of Rome. The next day it was an anti-Catholic nightmare crawling with militant secularists determined to erase every last vestige of the Province’s religious past.

http://www.culturewitness.com/2017/07/falling-from-grace-rise-and-fall-of.html
I spent a fair amount of time in and around Quebec during the 60's and 70's. It was I think, in the late 50's the revolution started. Poverty was very high due to the Church's insistence on large families and opposition to contraception and abortion. The women got sick and tired of it and started using contraception anyway. Amongst all this poverty were the huge churches in the smallest towns. The only overweight person was the priest and the only new car every year was the priest's. Many of the children of these women grew up with a healthy disrespect for the RCC as a result, Attendance began dropping off in the 60's and have continued to do so. Add to it the ongoing sexua abuse by priests which, will never prosecuted, was well known in the communities.

Today, there are many of the churches closed for lack of attendance and also because boys entering seminaries is no longer seen as a good thing. IOW, they ran out of priests, but not peophiles.

So, the church brought it all upon itself and Quebec may well prove to be a template for the rest of the world. This is good thing.
The RCC as we know it is an absolute monarchy run on a 19th century model which blundered away its once significant power until Mussolini delivered the coup de grace. It is hard to see things surviving. The only possibility I can imagine is to do a quick 180 degree flip on married woman priests. The Church still has some strength in parts of Africa and Latin America but history is catching up with it.
Lol.
People have been saying that about the Church for going on 2,000 years now.
Interesting, considering the church is only about 1400 year old. The myth is about 2000, well older, since they stole the rising god yarn from much older pagan myths. :rollseyes:
Only 1,400 yrs old? What fuzzy math are you using?
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BigE
Jul 30 2018, 03:08 PM
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Jul 30 2018, 02:53 PM
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Jul 30 2018, 11:55 AM
George Aligator
Jul 30 2018, 11:34 AM
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Jul 30 2018, 10:55 AM
The RCC as we know it is an absolute monarchy run on a 19th century model which blundered away its once significant power until Mussolini delivered the coup de grace. It is hard to see things surviving. The only possibility I can imagine is to do a quick 180 degree flip on married woman priests. The Church still has some strength in parts of Africa and Latin America but history is catching up with it.
Lol.
People have been saying that about the Church for going on 2,000 years now.
Interesting, considering the church is only about 1400 year old. The myth is about 2000, well older, since they stole the rising god yarn from much older pagan myths. :rollseyes:
Only 1,400 yrs old? What fuzzy math are you using?
I said about: " In AD 325, Constantine called the Council of Nicea in an attempt to unify Christianity." This is when the RCC was founded and that is not 2000 years ago. Interestingly enough, this was about the same time Nazareth was founded as a village. Interesting eh? :rollseyes:
Edited by Realitycheck, Jul 30 2018, 03:57 PM.
Religion in general and xianity in particular, is the worst scourge, the foulest plague to ever beset mankind.
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Jul 30 2018, 03:57 PM
BigE
Jul 30 2018, 03:08 PM
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Jul 30 2018, 02:53 PM
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Jul 30 2018, 11:55 AM
George Aligator
Jul 30 2018, 11:34 AM
Lol.
People have been saying that about the Church for going on 2,000 years now.
Interesting, considering the church is only about 1400 year old. The myth is about 2000, well older, since they stole the rising god yarn from much older pagan myths. :rollseyes:
Only 1,400 yrs old? What fuzzy math are you using?
I said about: " In AD 325, Constantine called the Council of Nicea in an attempt to unify Christianity." This is when the RCC was founded and that is not 2000 years ago. Interestingly enough, this was about the same time Nazareth was founded as a village. Interesting eh? :rollseyes:
LOL. Christianity = Church. Your logic is as fuzzy as always.

Here is a more correct version of that quote: "The council was called by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in order to resolve christological disagreements and to consolidate greater unity in his empire. The event was historically significant because it was the first effort to attain consensus in the church through an assembly representing all of Christendom.
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/First_Council_of_Nicaea



Edited by BigE, Jul 30 2018, 04:23 PM.
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Jul 30 2018, 04:22 PM
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Jul 30 2018, 03:08 PM
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Jul 30 2018, 02:53 PM
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Jul 30 2018, 11:55 AM
Interesting, considering the church is only about 1400 year old. The myth is about 2000, well older, since they stole the rising god yarn from much older pagan myths. :rollseyes:
Only 1,400 yrs old? What fuzzy math are you using?
I said about: " In AD 325, Constantine called the Council of Nicea in an attempt to unify Christianity." This is when the RCC was founded and that is not 2000 years ago. Interestingly enough, this was about the same time Nazareth was founded as a village. Interesting eh? :rollseyes:
LOL. Christianity = Church. Your logic is as fuzzy as always.

Here is a more correct version of that quote: "The council was called by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in order to resolve christological disagreements and to consolidate greater unity in his empire. The event was historically significant because it was the first effort to attain consensus in the church through an assembly representing all of Christendom.
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/First_Council_of_Nicaea



I was talking about the Church, not the myth. Nicea pretty much established the RCC and it hasn't progressed one iota since.
Religion in general and xianity in particular, is the worst scourge, the foulest plague to ever beset mankind.
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Here is the history you wish to deny BigE; https://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/Catholic.html. I can provide more when you have done denying this one.
Religion in general and xianity in particular, is the worst scourge, the foulest plague to ever beset mankind.
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BigE

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Jul 30 2018, 05:24 PM
BigE
Jul 30 2018, 04:22 PM
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Jul 30 2018, 03:57 PM
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Jul 30 2018, 03:08 PM
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Jul 30 2018, 02:53 PM
Only 1,400 yrs old? What fuzzy math are you using?
I said about: " In AD 325, Constantine called the Council of Nicea in an attempt to unify Christianity." This is when the RCC was founded and that is not 2000 years ago. Interestingly enough, this was about the same time Nazareth was founded as a village. Interesting eh? :rollseyes:
LOL. Christianity = Church. Your logic is as fuzzy as always.

Here is a more correct version of that quote: "The council was called by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in order to resolve christological disagreements and to consolidate greater unity in his empire. The event was historically significant because it was the first effort to attain consensus in the church through an assembly representing all of Christendom.
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/First_Council_of_Nicaea



I was talking about the Church, not the myth. Nicea pretty much established the RCC and it hasn't progressed one iota since.
Your logic is as crazy as always.
How did the emperor call in Bishops from a Church that didn't exist?
:rollseyes:




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BigE

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Jul 30 2018, 05:28 PM
Here is the history you wish to deny BigE; https://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/Catholic.html. I can provide more when you have done denying this one.
More nutsy logic on your part.
You claim ALL Christians are mentally ill and/or delusional.
Then you turn around and use a fringe "Christian" website to prove some point?
Keep burying yourself.
Edited by BigE, Jul 31 2018, 05:18 AM.
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BigE
Jul 31 2018, 05:17 AM
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Jul 30 2018, 05:28 PM
Here is the history you wish to deny BigE; https://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/Catholic.html. I can provide more when you have done denying this one.
More nutsy logic on your part.
You claim ALL Christians are mentally ill and/or delusional.
Then you turn around and use a fringe "Christian" website to prove some point?
Keep burying yourself.
All religious people are mentally ill. Using your own supporters to prove it merely proves my point when you deny it. :rotflmao:
Religion in general and xianity in particular, is the worst scourge, the foulest plague to ever beset mankind.
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BigE

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BigE
Jul 31 2018, 05:17 AM
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Jul 30 2018, 05:28 PM
Here is the history you wish to deny BigE; https://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/Catholic.html. I can provide more when you have done denying this one.
More nutsy logic on your part.
You claim ALL Christians are mentally ill and/or delusional.
Then you turn around and use a fringe "Christian" website to prove some point?
Keep burying yourself.
All religious people are mentally ill. Using your own supporters to prove it merely proves my point when you deny it. :rotflmao:
You're great at linking to websites.
You're horrible at trying to defend your logic.
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BigE
Jul 31 2018, 10:46 AM
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BigE
Jul 31 2018, 05:17 AM
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Jul 30 2018, 05:28 PM
Here is the history you wish to deny BigE; https://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/Catholic.html. I can provide more when you have done denying this one.
More nutsy logic on your part.
You claim ALL Christians are mentally ill and/or delusional.
Then you turn around and use a fringe "Christian" website to prove some point?
Keep burying yourself.
All religious people are mentally ill. Using your own supporters to prove it merely proves my point when you deny it. :rotflmao:
You're great at linking to websites.
You're horrible at trying to defend your logic.
You don't understand logic. If you did, you not only wouldn't be religious, you couldn't be. :rotflmao:
Religion in general and xianity in particular, is the worst scourge, the foulest plague to ever beset mankind.
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George Aligator
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Discussions about religion almost invariably crash on the rocks of faith. In my experience, there is no bridge between the consciousness informed by faith and the consciousness of one that is not. The differences are not symmetrical. The non-believer argues facts by logic and, by his rules of the game, wins the debate every time. The non-believer cannot prevail on the terrain of the believer, but to the believer such victory is unimportant. Faith is a different eperience which creates a different consciousness and a different set of criteria for what is important about religion. The believer and the non-believer are like different species.
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Harambe4Trump
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Jul 31 2018, 09:00 AM
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Jul 31 2018, 05:17 AM
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Jul 30 2018, 05:28 PM
Here is the history you wish to deny BigE; https://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/Catholic.html. I can provide more when you have done denying this one.
More nutsy logic on your part.
You claim ALL Christians are mentally ill and/or delusional.
Then you turn around and use a fringe "Christian" website to prove some point?
Keep burying yourself.
All religious people are mentally ill. Using your own supporters to prove it merely proves my point when you deny it. :rotflmao:
Why do you believe your particular illness hasn’t manifested in religious belief?
Heavan has strict immigration policies. Hell has open borders.
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Jul 30 2018, 04:22 PM
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Jul 30 2018, 03:57 PM
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Jul 30 2018, 03:08 PM
I said about: " In AD 325, Constantine called the Council of Nicea in an attempt to unify Christianity." This is when the RCC was founded and that is not 2000 years ago. Interestingly enough, this was about the same time Nazareth was founded as a village. Interesting eh? :rollseyes:
LOL. Christianity = Church. Your logic is as fuzzy as always.

Here is a more correct version of that quote: "The council was called by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in order to resolve christological disagreements and to consolidate greater unity in his empire. The event was historically significant because it was the first effort to attain consensus in the church through an assembly representing all of Christendom.
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/First_Council_of_Nicaea



I was talking about the Church, not the myth. Nicea pretty much established the RCC and it hasn't progressed one iota since.
Your logic is as crazy as always.
How did the emperor call in Bishops from a Church that didn't exist?
:rollseyes:




Still waiting for RC to explain this with his logic.
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George Aligator
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The issue of bishops is a wobbly one and took a central position in the great Protestant debate. The role of the episcopos was only dimly understood at the time and the political implications -- "no bishop, no king" -- played a disproportionate role.

The structure of organized believers evolved significantly in the early centuries of church expansion and puzzled later historians and protestors. What significance the confusion may have to the validity of Christianity's central beliefs depends on who is doing the arguing.
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George Aligator
Aug 1 2018, 09:37 AM
The issue of bishops is a wobbly one and took a central position in the great Protestant debate. The role of the episcopos was only dimly understood at the time and the political implications -- "no bishop, no king" -- played a disproportionate role.

The structure of organized believers evolved significantly in the early centuries of church expansion and puzzled later historians and protestors. What significance the confusion may have to the validity of Christianity's central beliefs depends on who is doing the arguing.
Thing is, "beliefs" is the operative word as there is a paucity of fact to support them.
Religion in general and xianity in particular, is the worst scourge, the foulest plague to ever beset mankind.
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