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Without Government who wil pay for those private construction companies?
Topic Started: Apr 12 2016, 03:08 PM (1,515 Views)
Harambe4Trump
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Tsalagi
Apr 13 2016, 11:58 AM
estonianman
Apr 13 2016, 11:41 AM
nNeo
Apr 13 2016, 11:30 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
It's a vague question - you need to give me more information
What kept AT&T from strangling all competition for a century
Buddha.
Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary.
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clone
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Director @ Center for Advanced Memetic Warfare
nNeo
Apr 13 2016, 11:30 AM
estonianman
Apr 13 2016, 10:41 AM
Give me a natural monopoly and we can proceed.
No, that's a dodge.

What keeps any monopoly in check?
Um...the people voluntarily handing over their hard earned money for a good or service...
Edited by clone, Apr 13 2016, 05:22 PM.
Only liberals can choose not to go down the road to widespread, systematic violence.
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Right-Wing
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Tsalagi
Apr 13 2016, 07:17 AM
Right-Wing
Apr 12 2016, 10:14 PM
Tsalagi
Apr 12 2016, 03:08 PM
All those guys sitting on their thumbs waiting for a contract to build highways, on-ramps, bridges, renovations? Tens of thousands of blue collar workers depending on government contracts?
Great Northern Railway

The Great Northern was the only privately funded — and successfully built — transcontinental railroad in U.S. history. No federal land grants were used during its construction, unlike all other transcontinental railroads.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Northern_Railway_(U.S.)
This is a joke right?...you had to delve back a century and more to find an example?
Yes, private industry was completing transcontinental infrastructure projects more than a century ago...why couldn't they do it today?
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clone
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Right-Wing
Apr 13 2016, 07:28 PM
Tsalagi
Apr 13 2016, 07:17 AM
Right-Wing
Apr 12 2016, 10:14 PM
This is a joke right?...you had to delve back a century and more to find an example?
Yes, private industry was completing transcontinental infrastructure projects more than a century ago...why couldn't they do it today?
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Right-Wing
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American Identitarian
Apr 13 2016, 11:59 AM
Tsalagi
Apr 13 2016, 11:58 AM
estonianman
Apr 13 2016, 11:41 AM

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What kept AT&T from strangling all competition for a century
Buddha.
Geezus Tsal...

Your question should have been "What allowed AT&T to strangle all competition for a century??"



Throughout most of the 20th century, AT&T held a monopoly on phone service in the United States and Canada through a network of companies called the Bell System. At this time, the company was nicknamed Ma Bell.

On April 30, 1907, Theodore Newton Vail became President of AT&T.[8][9] Vail believed in the superiority of one phone system and AT&T adopted the slogan "One Policy, One System, Universal Service."[8][9] This would be the company's philosophy for the next 70 years.[9]

Under Vail, AT&T began buying up many of the smaller telephone companies including Western Union telegraph.[8][9] Anxious to avoid action from government antitrust suits, AT&T and the federal government entered into an agreement known as the Kingsbury Commitment.[8][9] These actions brought unwanted attention from antitrust regulators. In the Kingsbury Commitment, AT&T and the government reached an agreement that allowed AT&T to continue operating as a monopoly. While AT&T periodically faced scrutiny from regulators, this state of affairs continued until the company's breakup in 1984.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_Corporation
Edited by Right-Wing, Apr 13 2016, 07:36 PM.
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estonianman
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Tsalagi
Apr 13 2016, 11:58 AM
estonianman
Apr 13 2016, 11:41 AM
nNeo
Apr 13 2016, 11:30 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
It's a vague question - you need to give me more information
What kept AT&T from strangling all competition for a century
Do you think an AT&T monopoly would have survived the wireless age?
MEEK AND MILD
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Tsalagi
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estonianman
Apr 14 2016, 01:13 AM
Tsalagi
Apr 13 2016, 11:58 AM
estonianman
Apr 13 2016, 11:41 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
What kept AT&T from strangling all competition for a century
Do you think an AT&T monopoly would have survived the wireless age?
There were a monopoly for over a century and a half, and were only derailed from that by forcibly being broken up by the Federal Government. In answer to your question, they were have controlled the wireless age as well as the wired age they had before it. They were ruthless in their endeavors and snuffed out any competition.
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clone
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Tsalagi
Apr 14 2016, 07:51 AM
estonianman
Apr 14 2016, 01:13 AM
Tsalagi
Apr 13 2016, 11:58 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Do you think an AT&T monopoly would have survived the wireless age?
There were a monopoly for over a century and a half, and were only derailed from that by forcibly being broken up by the Federal Government. In answer to your question, they were have controlled the wireless age as well as the wired age they had before it. They were ruthless in their endeavors and snuffed out any competition.
So was Bill Gates....and yet time has passed MS by....the only way a monopoly exists long term is if they bought off the gov't to create an unlevel playing field....aka crony capitalism...something the current gov't on both sides is quite fond off...
Only liberals can choose not to go down the road to widespread, systematic violence.
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estonianman
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Tsalagi
Apr 14 2016, 07:51 AM
estonianman
Apr 14 2016, 01:13 AM
Tsalagi
Apr 13 2016, 11:58 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Do you think an AT&T monopoly would have survived the wireless age?
There were a monopoly for over a century and a half, and were only derailed from that by forcibly being broken up by the Federal Government. In answer to your question, they were have controlled the wireless age as well as the wired age they had before it. They were ruthless in their endeavors and snuffed out any competition.
How would any of this be possible without the strict micromanagement by government in the marketplace?
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Tsalagi
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estonianman
Apr 14 2016, 11:35 AM
Tsalagi
Apr 14 2016, 07:51 AM
estonianman
Apr 14 2016, 01:13 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
There were a monopoly for over a century and a half, and were only derailed from that by forcibly being broken up by the Federal Government. In answer to your question, they were have controlled the wireless age as well as the wired age they had before it. They were ruthless in their endeavors and snuffed out any competition.
How would any of this be possible without the strict micromanagement by government in the marketplace?
If left to their own devices, AT& T could have, you asked, if they could have, I said yes, could they do it now..probably not, but if they had not been forcibly broken up..they might have been able to pull it off...there is your monopoly, you asked for one, I gave you one helluva one.
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estonianman
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Tsalagi
Apr 14 2016, 03:49 PM
estonianman
Apr 14 2016, 11:35 AM
Tsalagi
Apr 14 2016, 07:51 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
How would any of this be possible without the strict micromanagement by government in the marketplace?
If left to their own devices, AT& T could have, you asked, if they could have, I said yes, could they do it now..probably not, but if they had not been forcibly broken up..they might have been able to pull it off...there is your monopoly, you asked for one, I gave you one helluva one.
But the point is natural monopolies do not exist very long when subjected to changes in technology and free market forces.

Yes the government broke up AT&T - but whether they would have lasted as a monopoly is pure conjecture.
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Tsalagi
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estonianman
Apr 14 2016, 03:51 PM
Tsalagi
Apr 14 2016, 03:49 PM
estonianman
Apr 14 2016, 11:35 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
If left to their own devices, AT& T could have, you asked, if they could have, I said yes, could they do it now..probably not, but if they had not been forcibly broken up..they might have been able to pull it off...there is your monopoly, you asked for one, I gave you one helluva one.
But the point is natural monopolies do not exist very long when subjected to changes in technology and free market forces.

Yes the government broke up AT&T - but whether they would have lasted as a monopoly is pure conjecture.
Pure conjecture...lol? They lasted for over a century and a half, I'd say that's long enough. You in your philosophy would not have broken it up, you would have allowed for competition to be stifled until some imaginary point in time when supposedly other forces would have destroyed that monopoly.
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estonianman
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Tsalagi
Apr 14 2016, 03:59 PM
estonianman
Apr 14 2016, 03:51 PM
Tsalagi
Apr 14 2016, 03:49 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
But the point is natural monopolies do not exist very long when subjected to changes in technology and free market forces.

Yes the government broke up AT&T - but whether they would have lasted as a monopoly is pure conjecture.
Pure conjecture...lol? They lasted for over a century and a half, I'd say that's long enough. You in your philosophy would not have broken it up, you would have allowed for competition to be stifled until some imaginary point in time when supposedly other forces would have destroyed that monopoly.
Government is an artificial monopoly, and it requires the entire force of the police and military to defend it.

Monopolies do not last very long when subjected to natural market forces. AT&T would have lasted until someone broke the monopoly with wireless tech rendering landlines obsolete, which is exactly what has happened in the last 10 years.

Conjecture? We probably would have had access to wireless technologies much earlier had the government not stepped in and legitimized landline use



Edited by estonianman, Apr 14 2016, 04:07 PM.
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Tsalagi
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estonianman
Apr 14 2016, 04:05 PM
Tsalagi
Apr 14 2016, 03:59 PM
estonianman
Apr 14 2016, 03:51 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Pure conjecture...lol? They lasted for over a century and a half, I'd say that's long enough. You in your philosophy would not have broken it up, you would have allowed for competition to be stifled until some imaginary point in time when supposedly other forces would have destroyed that monopoly.
Government is an artificial monopoly, and it requires the entire force of the police and military to defend it.

Monopolies do not last very long when subjected to natural market forces. AT&T would have lasted until someone broke the monopoly with wireless tech rendering landlines obsolete, which is exactly what has happened in the last 10 years.

Conjecture? We probably would have had access to wireless technologies much earlier had the government not step in and legitimized landline use



A century and a half....a century and a half...and only ended under anti-monopoly laws initiated by the Federal Government.

Government is not a monopoly, that's a business model, government is a political construct with the consensus of the governed or their duly elected represented, or at least under our republican form of government.

Again, conjecture about wireless conjecture about how long it would have lasted. Standard Oil, there was another huge monopoly..
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estonianman
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Tsalagi
Apr 14 2016, 04:10 PM
estonianman
Apr 14 2016, 04:05 PM
Tsalagi
Apr 14 2016, 03:59 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Government is an artificial monopoly, and it requires the entire force of the police and military to defend it.

Monopolies do not last very long when subjected to natural market forces. AT&T would have lasted until someone broke the monopoly with wireless tech rendering landlines obsolete, which is exactly what has happened in the last 10 years.

Conjecture? We probably would have had access to wireless technologies much earlier had the government not step in and legitimized landline use



A century and a half....a century and a half...and only ended under anti-monopoly laws initiated by the Federal Government.

Government is not a monopoly, that's a business model, government is a political construct with the consensus of the governed or their duly elected represented, or at least under our republican form of government.

Again, conjecture about wireless conjecture about how long it would have lasted. Standard Oil, there was another huge monopoly..
Government is absolutely a monopoly - nowhere in the definition is it exclusive to just business interests.
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clone
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estonianman
Apr 14 2016, 06:30 PM
Tsalagi
Apr 14 2016, 04:10 PM
estonianman
Apr 14 2016, 04:05 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
A century and a half....a century and a half...and only ended under anti-monopoly laws initiated by the Federal Government.

Government is not a monopoly, that's a business model, government is a political construct with the consensus of the governed or their duly elected represented, or at least under our republican form of government.

Again, conjecture about wireless conjecture about how long it would have lasted. Standard Oil, there was another huge monopoly..
Government is absolutely a monopoly - nowhere in the definition is it exclusive to just business interests.
Tsal is one confused ....see this is where posting here gets tough...I wanted to say one confused mofo which is a term with no malice or ill will behind it....my next thought was one confused Kemosabe again a descriptor not a slander but who knows how the delicate snow flakes would handle that...I have still not been pm'd the ahem SORDID stuff I posted that some mod claims they saved my rear over...wilmy said he would but glossed over it and still nada...

so back to my thoughts...Tsal is one confused person...wow...now had a lot of appeal and piqued your interest didn't it my milquetoast eating comrades...

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Right-Wing
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Tsalagi
Apr 14 2016, 03:59 PM
estonianman
Apr 14 2016, 03:51 PM
Tsalagi
Apr 14 2016, 03:49 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
But the point is natural monopolies do not exist very long when subjected to changes in technology and free market forces.

Yes the government broke up AT&T - but whether they would have lasted as a monopoly is pure conjecture.
Pure conjecture...lol? They lasted for over a century and a half, I'd say that's long enough. You in your philosophy would not have broken it up, you would have allowed for competition to be stifled until some imaginary point in time when supposedly other forces would have destroyed that monopoly.
The Natural-Monopoly Myth: Telephone Services

The biggest myth of all in this regard is the notion that telephone service is a natural monopoly. Economists have taught generations of students that telephone service is a "classic" example of market failure and that government regulation in the "public interest" was necessary. But as Adam D. Thierer recently proved, there is nothing at all "natural" about the telephone monopoly enjoyed by AT&T for so many decades; it was purely a creation of government intervention."[54]

Once AT&T's initial patents expired in 1893, dozens of competitors sprung up. "By the end of 1894 over 80 new independent competitors had already grabbed 5 percent of total market share … after the turn of the century, over 3,000 competitors existed.[55] In some states there were over 200 telephone companies operating simultaneously. By 1907, AT&T's competitors had captured 51 percent of the telephone market and prices were being driven sharply down by the competition. Moreover, there was no evidence of economies of scale, and entry barriers were obviously almost nonexistent, contrary to the standard account of the theory of natural monopoly as applied to the telephone industry.[56]

The eventual creation of the telephone monopoly was the result of a conspiracy between AT&T and politicians who wanted to offer "universal telephone service" as a pork-barrel entitlement to their constituents. Politicians began denouncing competition as "duplicative," "destructive," and "wasteful," and various economists were paid to attend congressional hearings in which they somberly declared telephony a natural monopoly. "There is nothing to be gained by competition in the local telephone business," one congressional hearing concluded.[57]

The crusade to create a monopolistic telephone industry by government fiat finally succeeded when the federal government used World War I as an excuse to nationalize the industry in 1918. AT&T still operated its phone system, but it was controlled by a government commission headed by the postmaster general. Like so many other instances of government regulation, AT&T quickly "captured" the regulators and used the regulatory apparatus to eliminate its competitors. "By 1925 not only had virtually every state established strict rate regulation guidelines, but local telephone competition was either discouraged or explicitly prohibited within many of those jurisdictions."[58]

https://mises.org/library/myth-natural-monopoly-0
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estonianman
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Quote:
 
The eventual creation of the telephone monopoly was the result of a conspiracy between AT&T and politicians who wanted to offer "universal telephone service" as a pork-barrel entitlement to their constituents. Politicians began denouncing competition as "duplicative," "destructive," and "wasteful," and various economists were paid to attend congressional hearings in which they somberly declared telephony a natural monopoly. "There is nothing to be gained by competition in the local telephone business," one congressional hearing concluded.[57]


and thus ends, tsa's anti-capitalist tirade.
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Yes, I think that should just about put an end to it...
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Tsalagi
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Right-Wing
Apr 14 2016, 10:29 PM
Yes, I think that should just about put an end to it...
Not anti-capitalist, anti-monopoly, big fan of Theodore Roosevelt..as for our discussion...

Like so many other instances of government regulation, AT&T quickly "captured" the regulators and used the regulatory apparatus to eliminate its competitors. "By 1925 not only had virtually every state established strict rate regulation guidelines, but local telephone competition was either discouraged or explicitly prohibited within many of those jurisdictions."[58]

So it's government regulations that allowd A&T to swallow competitor after competitor?
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