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Gay pastor suing Whole Foods after finding homophobic slur on cake order
Topic Started: Apr 19 2016, 10:58 AM (2,714 Views)
Mr. Tik
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Two a.m.
May 17 2016, 04:19 PM
Coast2coast
May 17 2016, 03:36 PM
Two a.m.
May 17 2016, 12:30 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
An era of growth is not an era of repression.

But growth of what exactly?

Certainly not religious liberty or personal freedom - at least not for certain people with dissenting views. And if we don't stand up for the dissenters, we don't really have rights or freedoms at all. We merely have temporary allowances granted by social mores which can be revoked at any time.

I'm glad gays can marry. It is a long overdue advance which I favored for years. But my joy has been tempered by the rise of a regressive and disturbing progressivism that wishes to employ state power to assert itself intrusively and unnecessarily into the personal lives and habits of people for whom it has no justifiable public policy reason for bothering.
what 2am said.
Edited by Mr. Tik, May 18 2016, 12:12 AM.
You may be a conservative republican..if you are pro life until you get your mistress knocked up
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Robert Stout
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Adolph Hipster
May 18 2016, 12:11 AM
Two a.m.
May 17 2016, 04:19 PM
Coast2coast
May 17 2016, 03:36 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep

But growth of what exactly?

Certainly not religious liberty or personal freedom - at least not for certain people with dissenting views. And if we don't stand up for the dissenters, we don't really have rights or freedoms at all. We merely have temporary allowances granted by social mores which can be revoked at any time.

I'm glad gays can marry. It is a long overdue advance which I favored for years. But my joy has been tempered by the rise of a regressive and disturbing progressivism that wishes to employ state power to assert itself intrusively and unnecessarily into the personal lives and habits of people for whom it has no justifiable public policy reason for bothering.
what 2am said.
How many days have you been playing with your sausage on Perspectives ???....Isn't it a time for change ???................. :oyvey
Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid
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Opinionated
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Adolph Hipster
May 18 2016, 12:11 AM
Two a.m.
May 17 2016, 04:19 PM
Coast2coast
May 17 2016, 03:36 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep

But growth of what exactly?

Certainly not religious liberty or personal freedom - at least not for certain people with dissenting views. And if we don't stand up for the dissenters, we don't really have rights or freedoms at all. We merely have temporary allowances granted by social mores which can be revoked at any time.

I'm glad gays can marry. It is a long overdue advance which I favored for years. But my joy has been tempered by the rise of a regressive and disturbing progressivism that wishes to employ state power to assert itself intrusively and unnecessarily into the personal lives and habits of people for whom it has no justifiable public policy reason for bothering.
what 2am said.
It is a long established legal fact that when it comes to commerce, only so much dissent is permissible. You want to be a bigoted jackhole in your own home? Knock your socks off. You want to be a bigoted jackhole in your church? Well, if your church doesn't mind then more power to you. You want to be a bigoted jackhole in a private club? That's your prerogative, have at it.

You want to open up a "public accommodation" and be a bigoted jackhole to the people who walk in off the street and who you have nominally agreed to provide goods and services to, but then want to be able to pick and choose who is deserving of your goods and services based on some personal criteria that in some cases you call religion? That, that's not going to fly.
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thoughtless
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Opinionated
May 18 2016, 07:29 AM
Adolph Hipster
May 18 2016, 12:11 AM
Two a.m.
May 17 2016, 04:19 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
what 2am said.
It is a long established legal fact that when it comes to commerce, only so much dissent is permissible. You want to be a bigoted jackhole in your own home? Knock your socks off. You want to be a bigoted jackhole in your church? Well, if your church doesn't mind then more power to you. You want to be a bigoted jackhole in a private club? That's your prerogative, have at it.

You want to open up a "public accommodation" and be a bigoted jackhole to the people who walk in off the street and who you have nominally agreed to provide goods and services to, but then want to be able to pick and choose who is deserving of your goods and services based on some personal criteria that in some cases you call religion? That, that's not going to fly.
From a legal perspective, when you advertise a product for sale, you are making a legal offer. If someone takes you up on your offer, you have a legal obligation to fulfill the promise you made. You can't pick and chose which offers you make good on. You can't refuse service for personal reasons any more than you can charge full price after advertising 1/2 off.

I think that was taught is the first week of the business law class I took 45 years ago, and it doesn't have anything to do with the race or sex.
Without geometry, life is pointless.
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Robertr2000
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Posted Image
"if that **** wins we'll all hang from nooses"
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Robertr2000
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"Gay pastor admits he faked homophobic slur on Whole Foods cake"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/05/16/gay-pastor-admits-he-faked-homophobic-slur-on-whole-foods-cake/
"if that **** wins we'll all hang from nooses"
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Dem4life

Robertr2000
May 18 2016, 10:34 AM
Scroll down the first page and tell me what you see...
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Opinionated
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Robertr2000
May 18 2016, 10:32 AM
Posted Image
https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/the-right-to-refuse-service-can-a-business-refuse-service-to-someone-because-of-appearance
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Robertr2000
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Dem4life
May 18 2016, 10:35 AM
Robertr2000
May 18 2016, 10:34 AM
Scroll down the first page and tell me what you see...
I read the article. What are you referring to?
"if that **** wins we'll all hang from nooses"
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Demagogue
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Freaks1932
May 17 2016, 06:23 PM
Demagogue
May 17 2016, 09:15 AM
Coast2coast
May 17 2016, 12:22 AM

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Not to people who are actually religious and truly believe.
Sometimes I hear the argument that the atheist is smug, they smile and think they know better during an argument. It's the same damn thing religious folks do too though. :dunno:
Certainly this can be true. Honestly both sides have their asshats.

I personally am not very religious and have been known to take either side of religious debates. With that said, I know a decent number of really good people who are devoutly religious. These people are not assholes who constantly push their religion on someone else, they just were raised in their faith and are true believers. Out of this group of people there are a number of them who consider homosexual marriage to be a sin. These are good people who would never condemn someone for the way they live. They simply wish not to be forced to be involved in something they consider sinful.

I can not fathom the motivation of someone who would want to force these kind people to be a part of something they consider sinful just because some law says that they can. When this country was formed the law said that owning another man was legal. Just because something can be done within the law does not mean that it is the right thing to do.
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm.
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Demagogue
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Two a.m.
May 17 2016, 04:19 PM
Coast2coast
May 17 2016, 03:36 PM
Two a.m.
May 17 2016, 12:30 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
An era of growth is not an era of repression.

But growth of what exactly?

Certainly not religious liberty or personal freedom - at least not for certain people with dissenting views. And if we don't stand up for the dissenters, we don't really have rights or freedoms at all. We merely have temporary allowances granted by social mores which can be revoked at any time.

I'm glad gays can marry. It is a long overdue advance which I favored for years. But my joy has been tempered by the rise of a regressive and disturbing progressivism that wishes to employ state power to assert itself intrusively and unnecessarily into the personal lives and habits of people for whom it has no justifiable public policy reason for bothering.
Well said.
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm.
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Robertr2000
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Opinionated
May 18 2016, 10:50 AM
This is very true. But can you give me an actual event, in the real world where something like this has happened?
"if that **** wins we'll all hang from nooses"
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Robertr2000
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Robertr2000
May 18 2016, 10:56 AM
Dem4life
May 18 2016, 10:35 AM
Robertr2000
May 18 2016, 10:34 AM
Scroll down the first page and tell me what you see...
I read the article. What are you referring to?
Dem?
"if that **** wins we'll all hang from nooses"
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Robertr2000
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thoughtless
May 18 2016, 08:40 AM
Opinionated
May 18 2016, 07:29 AM
Adolph Hipster
May 18 2016, 12:11 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepwhat 2am said.
It is a long established legal fact that when it comes to commerce, only so much dissent is permissible. You want to be a bigoted jackhole in your own home? Knock your socks off. You want to be a bigoted jackhole in your church? Well, if your church doesn't mind then more power to you. You want to be a bigoted jackhole in a private club? That's your prerogative, have at it.

You want to open up a "public accommodation" and be a bigoted jackhole to the people who walk in off the street and who you have nominally agreed to provide goods and services to, but then want to be able to pick and choose who is deserving of your goods and services based on some personal criteria that in some cases you call religion? That, that's not going to fly.
From a legal perspective, when you advertise a product for sale, you are making a legal offer. If someone takes you up on your offer, you have a legal obligation to fulfill the promise you made. You can't pick and chose which offers you make good on. You can't refuse service for personal reasons any more than you can charge full price after advertising 1/2 off.

I think that was taught is the first week of the business law class I took 45 years ago, and it doesn't have anything to do with the race or sex.
Can you give an example? A real world example of an actual event please.
"if that **** wins we'll all hang from nooses"
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Opinionated
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Robertr2000
May 18 2016, 11:01 AM
Opinionated
May 18 2016, 10:50 AM
This is very true. But can you give me an actual event, in the real world where something like this has happened?
I don't have to give you an actual event. I understand what the law does and does not permit. That doesn't mean that there won't be an occasional business owner who breaks the law, perhaps through ignorance or sometimes through malicious intent. And if no one calls them on it, then they get away with it.

But if someone does call them on it, they'll lose in court.
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Robertr2000
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Opinionated
May 18 2016, 12:08 PM
Robertr2000
May 18 2016, 11:01 AM
Opinionated
May 18 2016, 10:50 AM
This is very true. But can you give me an actual event, in the real world where something like this has happened?
I don't have to give you an actual event. I understand what the law does and does not permit. That doesn't mean that there won't be an occasional business owner who breaks the law, perhaps through ignorance or sometimes through malicious intent. And if no one calls them on it, then they get away with it.

But if someone does call them on it, they'll lose in court.
thank you. Can you give me a made up example then.
"if that **** wins we'll all hang from nooses"
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Opinionated
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Robertr2000
May 18 2016, 12:33 PM
Opinionated
May 18 2016, 12:08 PM
Robertr2000
May 18 2016, 11:01 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepPosted Imagehttps://www.legalzoom.com/articles/the-right-to-refuse-service-can-a-business-refuse-service-to-someone-because-of-appearanceThis is very true. But can you give me an actual event, in the real world where something like this has happened?
I don't have to give you an actual event. I understand what the law does and does not permit. That doesn't mean that there won't be an occasional business owner who breaks the law, perhaps through ignorance or sometimes through malicious intent. And if no one calls them on it, then they get away with it.

But if someone does call them on it, they'll lose in court.
thank you. Can you give me a made up example then.
Did you even bother to read the article I linked, because it explained when refusing service is legally permitted and when it is not.
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Robertr2000
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Opinionated
May 18 2016, 01:33 PM
Robertr2000
May 18 2016, 12:33 PM
Opinionated
May 18 2016, 12:08 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepPosted Imagehttps://www.legalzoom.com/articles/the-right-to-refuse-service-can-a-business-refuse-service-to-someone-because-of-appearanceThis is very true. But can you give me an actual event, in the real world where something like this has happened?
thank you. Can you give me a made up example then.
Did you even bother to read the article I linked, because it explained when refusing service is legally permitted and when it is not.
The article that you linked does not answer my question to you.

Can you give me an example, real or made up, of something like this happening.
"if that **** wins we'll all hang from nooses"
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Robertr2000
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Robertr2000
May 18 2016, 01:48 PM
Opinionated
May 18 2016, 01:33 PM
Robertr2000
May 18 2016, 12:33 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepPosted Imagehttps://www.legalzoom.com/articles/the-right-to-refuse-service-can-a-business-refuse-service-to-someone-because-of-appearanceThis is very true. But can you give me an actual event, in the real world where something like this has happened? thank you. Can you give me a made up example then.
Did you even bother to read the article I linked, because it explained when refusing service is legally permitted and when it is not.
The article that you linked does not answer my question to you.

Can you give me an example, real or made up, of something like this happening.
Op?
"if that **** wins we'll all hang from nooses"
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Coast2coast

Two a.m.
May 17 2016, 04:19 PM
Coast2coast
May 17 2016, 03:36 PM
Two a.m.
May 17 2016, 12:30 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
An era of growth is not an era of repression.

But growth of what exactly?

Certainly not religious liberty or personal freedom - at least not for certain people with dissenting views. And if we don't stand up for the dissenters, we don't really have rights or freedoms at all. We merely have temporary allowances granted by social mores which can be revoked at any time.

I'm glad gays can marry. It is a long overdue advance which I favored for years. But my joy has been tempered by the rise of a regressive and disturbing progressivism that wishes to employ state power to assert itself intrusively and unnecessarily into the personal lives and habits of people for whom it has no justifiable public policy reason for bothering.
Short answer; the growth of equality as a basis of law over a system of discrimination to base laws over is positive growth.
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