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| Congress looks at re-starting the F-22 Raptor program | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 22 2016, 12:40 PM (1,160 Views) | |
| Demagogue | Apr 22 2016, 12:40 PM Post #1 |
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http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/21/politics/f22-raptor-congress/index.html A week after Russian military aircraft buzzed dangerously close to U.S. Navy ships and Air Force spy planes, Congress is considering bringing back production of stealthy F-22 Raptor air-to-air fighter jets. Lawmakers have tacked a provision onto a defense bill that will determine how much it would cost and how difficult it would be to ramp up production of the Air Force's fifth generation dogfighter. They also want to know about possible options for exporting F-22s to allies. Currently, exporting Raptors is illegal. |
| People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm. | |
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| Demagogue | Apr 22 2016, 12:41 PM Post #2 |
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They should have never shut the line down. I could have understood it if they had reached 500 air frames. That would have been enough to keep our premier air superiority fighter going for quite some time but 188 was just too few if we ever get into a conflict with a tier 1 power. With that said, it is going to be extremely expensive to start back up. Edited by Demagogue, Apr 22 2016, 12:42 PM.
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| People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm. | |
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| Eddo26 | Apr 22 2016, 01:04 PM Post #3 |
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It's useful only if it can shoot down nukes. Otherwise what's the point of using it against Russia or China. |
| We believe only what we want to believe. | |
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| Demagogue | Apr 22 2016, 01:19 PM Post #4 |
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The odds of getting into a nuclear war with either of those nations are very limited. The odds of getting into a skirmish with them is somewhat higher. The odds of getting into a skirmish with one of their vassal states which happens to have some of their latest fighters and other equipment is actually pretty significant. We have been able to own the air in every conflict we have been in since Vietnam but the advantage we have had is less significant as the capabilities of the world's aircraft finally catch and start to exceed the capabilities of the F-15. We simply don't have enough F-22's in my opinion. If they had wanted to stop a 500 I could have accepted that but 188 was too few. |
| People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm. | |
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| Attaburnsinhell | Apr 22 2016, 01:27 PM Post #5 |
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Manned air to air combat is obsolete, these weapons programs, like the F35 are monumental wastes of money Unmanned drones, with sophisticated missiles like the AIM can down another aircraft from up to 50 miles away, while being piloted from the ground in a military trailer halfway round the world in Florida. No G forces to contend with As for ships, there are similar over the horizon missiles that can sink any of our seaborn dinosaurs, like the Sunburn or the Harpoon. Iran has a fleet of hundreds of small two man boats that can swarm one of our ships, each one carrying one of these type of missiles. All they need is one to get through |
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| voted4reagan | Apr 22 2016, 01:50 PM Post #6 |
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The AIM-9 is NOT sophisticated by today's standards. It has been in production since 1953. The Aim-7 Sparrow has been in production since 1959. The Aim-120 AAMRAM started production in 1991 They are hardly cutting edge any more... |
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Trump needs to focus more so on the male vote. He should have nationalized the Boy Scouts when they decided to admit girls. Harambe4Trump AKA "FASHY" | |
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| 70-101 | Apr 22 2016, 01:52 PM Post #7 |
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Watch out Russia the Republicans are coming.
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| Demagogue | Apr 22 2016, 02:06 PM Post #8 |
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Atta, you are not incorrect that in the future some form of UCAV will probably be what is on the front lines of air superiority and especially ground attack. A man somewhere nearby will probably still be in the loop because satellite coms have lag and can be jammed or even interfered with by nature. There are designs being looked into where a flight of UCAVs (unmanned combat areal vehicles) are flown or directed by a pilot in a nearby heavy aircraft which was the launch platform for the UCAVs. Unfortunately due to sat lag actually having a pilot flying a UCAV doing air superiority from half way around the world is a problem since the closure speeds can be near and above mach 2 if the combatants are flying toward each other. So, this means that we have to either trust the computer brain of the UCAV to autonomously engage the other aircraft or there has to be a human in theater giving directions. Probably a combination of both is what will happen. The thing is, none of that technology will be ready to bring into full availability for probably a decade. We can build F-22's or enhanced F-15's now. Incidentally, even the best radar guided missiles that the Russians and the US have are not capable of killing a 5th gen aircraft from 50 miles with any certainty. A 5th gen fighter can on the other hand take a reliable shot at a 4th gen fighter from that range. By reliable I mean there is a good chance that the missile launch will cause the 4th gen to either flee the engagement or conduct a good bit of countermeasures and jinking to evade the missile. |
| People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm. | |
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| BuckFan | Apr 22 2016, 03:17 PM Post #9 |
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This is a Congress push. I doubt the Air Force wants to take scarce budget dollars and spend it on rebuilding production of F-22 for a couple of airplanes. They would rather use all that money buying their full share of F-35's and getting that program up to full production. The reason the AF is proposing extending the life of the F-16/F-15 or buying more is to fill in the gaps for the next 10 years due to the lack of F-35 production rates. |
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| Coast2coast | Apr 22 2016, 04:43 PM Post #10 |
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The last time we decided that air to air in close fighting was obsolete our pilots paid a hard price. |
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| Tsalagi | Apr 22 2016, 06:02 PM Post #11 |
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The idea is to move beyond the f-22, and into the F-35, it is a joint strike fighter craft, that can be modified easily to suit the needs of it's branch, the Navy/Marines need one with the ability to take a punch on carrier landings at sea. The F-35 was supposed to be the pinnacle, 5th gen fighter to go toe to toe with the latest MIG variant and the Chinese update version |
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| Eddo26 | Apr 22 2016, 06:31 PM Post #12 |
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Why are you so sure of that? |
| We believe only what we want to believe. | |
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| BuckFan | Apr 22 2016, 06:36 PM Post #13 |
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That's not quite right but given the ignorance of the general media I can understand the confusion. The easiest way to look at it is the F22 is the F15 replacement. It is the primary air-to-air fighter but costly. The primary mission is defense of the U.S. The F35 is to be the F16 replacement. Basically less capable but cheaper so more plentiful (OK, no posts about cost overruns) and more of a general workhorse. The F35 is a little brother to the F22. |
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| Demagogue | Apr 22 2016, 07:31 PM Post #14 |
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Because when dealing with major poweres there really is no such thing as a limited nuclear exchange and all sides know it. These types of powers tend to have significant controls on their weapons systems which greatly limit the chances of an accidental exchange. Smaller powers like NK, Israel or Iran are a different situation. |
| People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm. | |
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| Eddo26 | Apr 22 2016, 07:35 PM Post #15 |
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That's just wishful thinking. It takes any leader who values his ego more than his life (almost all of them) to use their media and get their people angry at some other nation and have enough backing to do another Cuban Missile Crisis and follow through. |
| We believe only what we want to believe. | |
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| Eddo26 | Apr 22 2016, 07:47 PM Post #16 |
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Take right now- you have Fox News tards believing various paid propaganda trolls into thinking US would be able to nuke China (and Russia too if they didn't worship Putin so much) without reprisal because that country don't have the reliable technology to nuke back or some other dumb speculation.
Edited by Eddo26, Apr 22 2016, 07:49 PM.
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| We believe only what we want to believe. | |
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| Demagogue | Apr 23 2016, 01:28 AM Post #17 |
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That is odd speculation, I don't suppose you have a link |
| People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm. | |
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| Robert Stout | Apr 23 2016, 01:37 AM Post #18 |
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I suggest we sue for peace with Russia, China, North Korea, and ISIS....By abandoning such things as the F-35, we will save $Trillions given to defense contractors.........
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| Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid | |
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| Eddo26 | Apr 23 2016, 03:25 AM Post #19 |
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http://www.facebook.com/foxnews Sure I do have the link to their comments. Edited by Eddo26, Apr 23 2016, 03:26 AM.
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| We believe only what we want to believe. | |
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| Demagogue | Apr 23 2016, 11:40 AM Post #20 |
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I meant a link to the specific comments you claimed they had made. |
| People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm. | |
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8:38 PM Jul 10