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| America Has Never Been So Ripe for Tyranny; By Andrew Sullivan | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 10 2016, 09:53 PM (1,483 Views) | |
| Ronin | May 10 2016, 09:53 PM Post #1 |
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http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trump.html As this dystopian election campaign has unfolded, my mind keeps being tugged by a passage in Plato’s Republic. It has unsettled — even surprised — me from the moment I first read it in graduate school. The passage is from the part of the dialogue where Socrates and his friends are talking about the nature of different political systems, how they change over time, and how one can slowly evolve into another. And Socrates seemed pretty clear on one sobering point: that “tyranny is probably established out of no other regime than democracy.” What did Plato mean by that? Democracy, for him, I discovered, was a political system of maximal freedom and equality, where every lifestyle is allowed and public offices are filled by a lottery. And the longer a democracy lasted, Plato argued, the more democratic it would become. Its freedoms would multiply; its equality spread. Deference to any sort of authority would wither; tolerance of any kind of inequality would come under intense threat; and multiculturalism and sexual freedom would create a city or a country like “a many-colored cloak decorated in all hues.” This rainbow-flag polity, Plato argues, is, for many people, the fairest of regimes. The freedom in that democracy has to be experienced to be believed — with shame and privilege in particular emerging over time as anathema. But it is inherently unstable. As the authority of elites fades, as Establishment values cede to popular ones, views and identities can become so magnificently diverse as to be mutually uncomprehending. And when all the barriers to equality, formal and informal, have been removed; when everyone is equal; when elites are despised and full license is established to do “whatever one wants,” you arrive at what might be called late-stage democracy. There is no kowtowing to authority here, let alone to political experience or expertise... |
| The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. | |
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| estonianman | May 10 2016, 09:55 PM Post #2 |
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excellent thread. So the answer is tyranny, right? |
| MEEK AND MILD | |
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| Harambe4Trump | May 10 2016, 09:56 PM Post #3 |
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We had tyrants before with Lincoln, Wilson, FDR, and LBJ. |
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Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary. #MAGA #wallsnotwars | |
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| Ronin | May 10 2016, 10:00 PM Post #4 |
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What was y'alls favorite part of the article? |
| The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. | |
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| clone | May 10 2016, 10:01 PM Post #5 |
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Director @ Center for Advanced Memetic Warfare
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andrew sullivan? the brit who posted anonymous online advertisements for unprotected anal sex, preferably with "other HIV-positive men"....worried about tyranny? I think he's got other issues to worry about.... |
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Only liberals can choose not to go down the road to widespread, systematic violence. | |
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| Ronin | May 10 2016, 10:05 PM Post #6 |
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Do you not read things written by gay folks? |
| The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. | |
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| nNeo | May 10 2016, 10:22 PM Post #7 |
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"More to the point, those Republicans desperately trying to use the long-standing rules of their own nominating process to thwart this monster deserve our passionate support, not our disdain...The Republican delegates who are trying to protect their party from the whims of an outsider demagogue are, at this moment, doing what they ought to be doing to prevent civil and racial unrest, an international conflict, and a constitutional crisis. These GOP elites have every right to deploy whatever rules or procedural roadblocks they can muster, and they should refuse to be intimidated. And if they fail in Indiana or Cleveland, as they likely will, they need, quite simply, to disown their party’s candidate. They should resist any temptation to loyally back the nominee or to sit this election out. They must take the fight to Trump at every opportunity, unite with Democrats and Independents against him, and be prepared to sacrifice one election in order to save their party and their country. For Trump is not just a wacky politician of the far right, or a riveting television spectacle, or a Twitter phenom and bizarre working-class hero. He is not just another candidate to be parsed and analyzed by TV pundits in the same breath as all the others. In terms of our liberal democracy and constitutional order, Trump is an extinction-level event. It’s long past time we started treating him as such." |
| “Strong people don’t need strong leaders.” | |
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| BuckFan | May 10 2016, 10:28 PM Post #8 |
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I'm not sure about that tyranny stuff but clearly hyperbole is not dead |
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| Harambe4Trump | May 10 2016, 10:32 PM Post #9 |
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Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary. #MAGA #wallsnotwars | |
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| jake58 | May 10 2016, 10:43 PM Post #10 |
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ha, just another self righteous yahoo who doesn't understand the general public's level of disgust with where we are and the leaders who got us here... |
| That which can be asserted without evidence; can be dismissed without evidence- Christopher Hitchens | |
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| Drudge X | May 10 2016, 10:49 PM Post #11 |
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Sounds like you are afraid of a Trump presidency comrade. |
| Kate Steinle was separated from her family permanently but leftists didn't seem to mind. | |
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| Two a.m. | May 10 2016, 11:04 PM Post #12 |
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I read this article a couple days ago. A long but absolutely excellent read. It's also the first time I've read something about the Trump phenomenon that I agreed with almost 100 percent. Most analyses are lacking. This one seems spot on in putting this Trump nonsense in the larger context. |
| "The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them." - George Orwell, 1984 | |
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| Robert Stout | May 10 2016, 11:10 PM Post #13 |
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I have been concerned about our susceptibility to tyranny ever since Hillary started her campaign...She used her corporate friends to capture over 400 super delegates since the beginning, making it nearly impossible for a challenger to stand in her way...The only thing that stands in her way of getting the nomination is an arrest by the FBI..........
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| Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid | |
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| Robert Stout | May 10 2016, 11:10 PM Post #14 |
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DP
Edited by Robert Stout, May 10 2016, 11:11 PM.
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| Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid | |
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| Mr. Tik | May 10 2016, 11:12 PM Post #15 |
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You may be a conservative republican..if you are pro life until you get your mistress knocked up | |
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| Two a.m. | May 10 2016, 11:17 PM Post #16 |
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We never thought there could be anything worse the the Tea Party's bad ideas. Enter Trump's lack of ideas. Worst of all, no one seems to care. Trump seems able to disregard not just traditional party positions but even his own previous positions and none of it much matters. People are in love with the emotion. They don't care about the content. Same thing going on with Bernie. |
| "The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them." - George Orwell, 1984 | |
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| jake58 | May 10 2016, 11:26 PM Post #17 |
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Good Lord, while I admire the effort, I have to marvel at the historical ignorance of putting Cromwell, Napoleon and Trump in the same box. It harkens back to those who thought we would be a Communist country after 2 terms of Obama. Sullivan et al are imbuing the US President with powers he simply doesn't have, even assuming a sympathetic Congress. And while the odds of a Trump presidency seem somewhat long to this observer, the odds of a Trump presidency and a sympathetic Congress are even longer. |
| That which can be asserted without evidence; can be dismissed without evidence- Christopher Hitchens | |
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| Ronin | May 10 2016, 11:27 PM Post #18 |
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On the contrary, a good portion of this piece is an explanation of why Trump's core constituency is extremely and justifiably frustrated. |
| The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. | |
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| estonianman | May 10 2016, 11:29 PM Post #19 |
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Liberty and freedom is a bad idea? Regarding what the tea party initially stood for, not trump |
| MEEK AND MILD | |
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| Two a.m. | May 10 2016, 11:58 PM Post #20 |
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What the Tea Party initially stood for was a rather hazy blend of politically motivated misconceptions about the Founding Fathers mixed with a generous dose of anti-tax paranoia about socialism and the occasional bout of nativism. Most of it revolved around muddle-headed thinking regarding budgetary priorities and revenue. Very little of it had much of anything to do with freedom or liberty. These were merely words the TPers tossed around a lot - much the same way liberals scream about "justice" all the time without really having any idea what that actually means. |
| "The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them." - George Orwell, 1984 | |
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