| Welcome to Perspectives. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| America Has Never Been So Ripe for Tyranny; By Andrew Sullivan | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: May 10 2016, 09:53 PM (1,484 Views) | |
| estonianman | May 11 2016, 12:02 AM Post #21 |
![]()
|
I thought the original Tea Party movement was motivated by Ron Paul - and then like everything else was co-opted by authoritarians. |
| MEEK AND MILD | |
![]() |
|
| Two a.m. | May 11 2016, 12:07 AM Post #22 |
|
I don't recall it being very Ron Paulish in nature. They probably had some things in common. But mainly it was an anti-Obama movement obsessed with taxes, spending and opposition to Obamacare specifically and government involvement in economic matters generally. Paul might go along with that but it lacked his isolationism and social libertarianism and was far more focused on anti-Obamaism than the Paul family which tends more toward ideas than hating on the president. It was more modern conservative than iconoclastic libertarian. Edited by Two a.m., May 11 2016, 12:08 AM.
|
| "The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them." - George Orwell, 1984 | |
![]() |
|
| nNeo | May 11 2016, 12:24 AM Post #23 |
|
Since that's literally what the article is about, you either didn't read it, or didn't understand it. Point being a segment is indeed disgusted and/or afraid,largely for the wrong reasons and at the wrong things, and because of that, wants changes that would likely make most or all of their problems worse. Symbolism and emotion have displaced fact and reason to a dangerous degree. |
| “Strong people don’t need strong leaders.” | |
![]() |
|
| nNeo | May 11 2016, 12:32 AM Post #24 |
|
estonianman is right on the early history, The first TP iteration came out of Campaign for Liberty, which was a Paul support organization, and was largely a libertarian / paleocon reaction to the neocon / neolib tack the GOP seemed to be taking - corporatism, running large deficits, and starting wars. It was fairly coherent, but small. Unfortunately once it got on the radar, it was quickly over-run by the nutter version you are describing. Edited by nNeo, May 11 2016, 12:33 AM.
|
| “Strong people don’t need strong leaders.” | |
![]() |
|
| Two a.m. | May 11 2016, 12:33 AM Post #25 |
|
A frightening trend in both parties. It just seems to be coming to fruition faster in the GOP. |
| "The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them." - George Orwell, 1984 | |
![]() |
|
| Two a.m. | May 11 2016, 12:34 AM Post #26 |
|
Ah...thanks. I'm not familiar with its early history. |
| "The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them." - George Orwell, 1984 | |
![]() |
|
| Harambe4Trump | May 11 2016, 12:45 AM Post #27 |
![]()
|
The horror and horror of knowing how to successfully market to the masses? Will we know hear a treatise on how Interstellar relied on emotion and symbols to create a compelling story instead of relying on cold logic? Give me a break. |
|
Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary. #MAGA #wallsnotwars | |
![]() |
|
| nNeo | May 11 2016, 12:48 AM Post #28 |
|
Yes, that's a comfort. I have to trust that even if he wins, our lovely system of checks and balances will restrain his dumber intentions. However he will likely get to name a justice, and potentially 2 or 3, and the Senate could end up 50/50, or very close. That's a setup that gives the executive unusual opportunities. |
| “Strong people don’t need strong leaders.” | |
![]() |
|
| nNeo | May 11 2016, 12:50 AM Post #29 |
|
It's far past marketing. It's manipulation, fear mongering, incitement, and blatant lies.
Fantasy and emotion are lovely for entertainment, but not a basis for public policy. There should be a clear distinction, but as media has been reporting less and less factual news, and spending more and more time telling you how to feel about it, that line has been blurred. Millions of people are now angry without really knowing why, and even over things that haven't actually happened. There's a huge disconnect between perception and reality, and that's an expressway to bad decisions. Edited by nNeo, May 11 2016, 12:56 AM.
|
| “Strong people don’t need strong leaders.” | |
![]() |
|
| Coast2coast | May 11 2016, 12:51 AM Post #30 |
|
The Group Tantrum Party rose as a reaction to a Liberal President. No liberal President would have equaled no Group Tantrum Party. |
![]() |
|
| Two a.m. | May 11 2016, 12:52 AM Post #31 |
|
The director of Interstellar did not gain control over an arsenal of nuclear weapons. |
| "The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them." - George Orwell, 1984 | |
![]() |
|
| Harambe4Trump | May 11 2016, 12:54 AM Post #32 |
![]()
|
Symbolism and emotion are effective means by which to reach people. Criticizing successful politicians or entertainers for utilizing them is beyond abscurd. |
|
Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary. #MAGA #wallsnotwars | |
![]() |
|
| nNeo | May 11 2016, 12:58 AM Post #33 |
|
No, it started during the Bush administration. However what you describe happened once Obama was elected. and that's when it went off the rails. |
| “Strong people don’t need strong leaders.” | |
![]() |
|
| Two a.m. | May 11 2016, 01:04 AM Post #34 |
|
Wouldn't it be nice if there were qualifications and coherent policies behind those things? |
| "The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them." - George Orwell, 1984 | |
![]() |
|
| Harambe4Trump | May 11 2016, 01:06 AM Post #35 |
![]()
|
People know exactly why they are angry. We have been at war with jihadism since September 11 which led to two foreign adventure wherein thousands of Americans died for nothing with many more maimed. Wages have been stagnant since 2000 but not for the 1%. This country is being transformed into Mexico. The economy crashed in 2008 while the bankers responsible were largely unpunished. People are emotional and respond to symbols. Steve Jobs understood this and created the most profitable mobile company when the iPhone is objectively no better than Android. Drone on about Trump's masterful persuasive skills, but that is not a legitimate criticism. |
|
Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary. #MAGA #wallsnotwars | |
![]() |
|
| nNeo | May 11 2016, 01:08 AM Post #36 |
|
That's the problem. What they "know" isn't based on reality, and their emotional reactions aren't going to fix things.
In fact the two pointless, costly wars were themselves a populist-fueled reaction, illustrating perfectly why emotion, especially jingoism, leads to horrible policy.
Longer than that actually. Do you actually think that electing a member of the 1%, actually more like .01%, is going to fix that? Trump has spent his whole life screwing over people like you to make himself richer. Suddenly he's the savior of the common man? It's absurd.
Not sure what you mean by that? Employment has been improving, illegal immigration is at a 15 year low, crime is up slightly from a year or two ago, but still lower than it's been in generations. Obama reduced the (still too high) deficit significantly, and fewer American service people are fighting overseas. Things aren't fantastic, but they're a lot better than they were a few years ago.
And they won't be, no matter who wins the election. Welcome to America sailor. Have a cupcake. Edited by nNeo, May 11 2016, 01:24 AM.
|
| “Strong people don’t need strong leaders.” | |
![]() |
|
| Harambe4Trump | May 11 2016, 01:08 AM Post #37 |
![]()
|
There in fact is. He will have a wall, Muslim immigration or even visa passes will be prohibited, free trade will be curtailed, and this country would persue an isolationist foreign policy. He has been consistent throughout on this. |
|
Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary. #MAGA #wallsnotwars | |
![]() |
|
| nNeo | May 11 2016, 01:25 AM Post #38 |
|
Which will cost billions and do almost nothing.
A heavy-handed policy to address a minuscule threat.
Not a smart strategy in a hyper-competitive 21st century world. "Curtailing trade" would immediately plunge us into recession. That alone is reason enough not to vote for Trump All of those are policies that would be expensive and ineffective, even detrimental. Symbolism in lieu of substance. Exactly the point. Good night, Edited by nNeo, May 11 2016, 01:32 AM.
|
| “Strong people don’t need strong leaders.” | |
![]() |
|
| Ronin | May 11 2016, 01:29 AM Post #39 |
|
If you were still in the military and given an order which you believed was illegal but was told came directly from the Whitehouse under President Trump, would you follow it? |
| The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. | |
![]() |
|
| Harambe4Trump | May 11 2016, 01:32 AM Post #40 |
![]()
|
I would never believe not accept that an order of President Trump would be illegal. |
|
Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary. #MAGA #wallsnotwars | |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |









4:07 AM Jul 11