|
America Has Never Been So Ripe for Tyranny; By Andrew Sullivan
|
|
Topic Started: May 10 2016, 09:53 PM (1,486 Views)
|
|
Harambe4Trump
|
May 11 2016, 01:35 AM
Post #41
|
|
- Posts:
- 17,324
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #42
- Joined:
- Mar 18, 2016
|
- nNeo
- May 11 2016, 01:08 AM
- American Identitarian
- May 11 2016, 01:06 AM
People know exactly why they are angry.
That's the problem. What they "know" isn't based on reality, and their emotional reactions aren't going to fix things. - American Identitarian
- May 11 2016, 01:06 AM
We have been at war with jihadism since September 11 which led to two foreign adventure wherein thousands of Americans died for nothing with many more maimed.
In fact the two pointless, costly wars were themselves a populist-fueled reaction, illustrating perfectly why emotion, especially jingoism, leads to horrible policy. - American Identitarian
- May 11 2016, 01:06 AM
Wages have been stagnant since 2000 but not for the 1%.
Longer than that actually. Do you actually think that electing a member of the 1%, actually more like .01%, is going to fix that? Trump has spent his whole life screwing over people like you to make himself richer. Suddenly he's the savior of the common man? It's absurd. - American Identitarian
- May 11 2016, 01:06 AM
This country is being transformed into Mexico.
Not sure what you mean by that? Employment has been improving, illegal immigration is at a 15 year low, crime is up slightly from a year or two ago, but still lower than it's been in generations. Obama reduced the (still too high) deficit significantly, and fewer American service people are fighting overseas. Things aren't fantastic, but they're a lot better than they were a few years ago. - American Identitarian
- May 11 2016, 01:06 AM
The economy crashed in 2008 while the bankers responsible were largely unpunished.
And they won't be, no matter who wins the election. Welcome to America sailor. Have a cupcake. These are the sentiments of the political elite which do not match the experience of the public. Hence, the establishment was discredited and we saw the rise of Sanders and Trump.
|
Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary. #MAGA #wallsnotwars
|
| |
|
Ronin
|
May 11 2016, 01:35 AM
Post #42
|
|
- Posts:
- 552
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #127
- Joined:
- Mar 23, 2016
|
- American Identitarian
- May 11 2016, 01:32 AM
- Ronin
- May 11 2016, 01:29 AM
- American Identitarian
- May 11 2016, 01:08 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
If you were still in the military and given an order which you believed was illegal but was told came directly from the Whitehouse under President Trump, would you follow it?
I would never believe not accept that an order of President Trump would be illegal. How about Hillary?
|
|
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
|
| |
|
Harambe4Trump
|
May 11 2016, 01:37 AM
Post #43
|
|
- Posts:
- 17,324
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #42
- Joined:
- Mar 18, 2016
|
- nNeo
- May 11 2016, 01:25 AM
- American Identitarian
- May 11 2016, 01:08 AM
[He will have a wall,
Which will cost billions and do almost nothing. - American Identitarian
- May 11 2016, 01:08 AM
[Muslim immigration or even visa passes will be prohibited
A heavy-handed policy to address a minuscule threat. - American Identitarian
- May 11 2016, 01:08 AM
[ this country would persue an isolationist foreign policy.
Not a smart strategy in a hyper-competitive 21st century world. "Curtailing trade" would immediately plunge us into recession. That alone is reason enough not to vote for Trump All of those are policies that would be expensive and ineffective, even detrimental. Symbolism in lieu of substance. Exactly the point. Good night, These policies were followed in the 19th century and they worked. The modern elite embraced globalization and it failed the public.
|
Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary. #MAGA #wallsnotwars
|
| |
|
Harambe4Trump
|
May 11 2016, 01:38 AM
Post #44
|
|
- Posts:
- 17,324
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #42
- Joined:
- Mar 18, 2016
|
- Ronin
- May 11 2016, 01:35 AM
- American Identitarian
- May 11 2016, 01:32 AM
- Ronin
- May 11 2016, 01:29 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I would never believe not accept that an order of President Trump would be illegal.
How about Hillary? Fortunately, I don't have to worry about that predicament.
|
Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary. #MAGA #wallsnotwars
|
| |
|
Ronin
|
May 11 2016, 01:41 AM
Post #45
|
|
- Posts:
- 552
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #127
- Joined:
- Mar 23, 2016
|
- American Identitarian
- May 11 2016, 01:38 AM
- Ronin
- May 11 2016, 01:35 AM
- American Identitarian
- May 11 2016, 01:32 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
How about Hillary?
Fortunately, I don't have to worry about that predicament. Obama? George W.?
|
|
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
|
| |
|
estonianman
|
May 11 2016, 02:35 AM
Post #46
|
|
- Posts:
- 19,739
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #44
- Joined:
- Mar 19, 2016
|
- Two a.m.
- May 11 2016, 12:07 AM
- estonianman
- May 11 2016, 12:02 AM
- Two a.m.
- May 10 2016, 11:58 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I thought the original Tea Party movement was motivated by Ron Paul - and then like everything else was co-opted by authoritarians.
I don't recall it being very Ron Paulish in nature. They probably had some things in common. But mainly it was an anti-Obama movement obsessed with taxes, spending and opposition to Obamacare specifically and government involvement in economic matters generally. Paul might go along with that but it lacked his isolationism and social libertarianism and was far more focused on anti-Obamaism than the Paul family which tends more toward ideas than hating on the president. It was more modern conservative than iconoclastic libertarian. I believe the Ron Paul surge started it all.
That said - I find it hilarious that anyone that isn't a neocon is an isolationist.
|
|
MEEK AND MILD
|
| |
|
Two a.m.
|
May 11 2016, 02:57 AM
Post #47
|
|
- Posts:
- 4,133
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #9
- Joined:
- Mar 17, 2016
|
- American Identitarian
- May 11 2016, 01:32 AM
I would never believe not accept that an order of President Trump would be illegal. If there is a better statement of why people fear Trump would herald the onset of tyranny, I can't think of any one more chilling than the one you just uttered.
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend DONALD TRUMP against all enemies OF DONALD TRUMP, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to DONALD TRUMP; and that I will obey the orders of DONALD TRUMP and the orders of the officers appointed over me BY DONALD TRUMP, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of DONALD TRUMP. So help me DONALD TRUMP."
|
|
"The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them." - George Orwell, 1984
|
| |
|
thwlruss
|
May 11 2016, 03:04 AM
Post #48
|
|
- Posts:
- 262
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #133
- Joined:
- Mar 25, 2016
|
- jake58
- May 10 2016, 10:43 PM
- nNeo
- May 10 2016, 10:22 PM
- Ronin
- May 10 2016, 10:00 PM
What was y'alls favorite part of the article?
"More to the point, those Republicans desperately trying to use the long-standing rules of their own nominating process to thwart this monster deserve our passionate support, not our disdain...The Republican delegates who are trying to protect their party from the whims of an outsider demagogue are, at this moment, doing what they ought to be doing to prevent civil and racial unrest, an international conflict, and a constitutional crisis. These GOP elites have every right to deploy whatever rules or procedural roadblocks they can muster, and they should refuse to be intimidated. And if they fail in Indiana or Cleveland, as they likely will, they need, quite simply, to disown their party’s candidate. They should resist any temptation to loyally back the nominee or to sit this election out. They must take the fight to Trump at every opportunity, unite with Democrats and Independents against him, and be prepared to sacrifice one election in order to save their party and their country. For Trump is not just a wacky politician of the far right, or a riveting television spectacle, or a Twitter phenom and bizarre working-class hero. He is not just another candidate to be parsed and analyzed by TV pundits in the same breath as all the others. In terms of our liberal democracy and constitutional order, Trump is an extinction-level event. It’s long past time we started treating him as such."
ha, just another self righteous yahoo who doesn't understand the general public's level of disgust with where we are and the leaders who got us here... if you weren't such a dishonest bitch, id call you on this BS
|
|
"Live by the dum, die by the dum"
|
| |
|
Two a.m.
|
May 11 2016, 03:09 AM
Post #49
|
|
- Posts:
- 4,133
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #9
- Joined:
- Mar 17, 2016
|
- estonianman
- May 11 2016, 02:35 AM
- Two a.m.
- May 11 2016, 12:07 AM
- estonianman
- May 11 2016, 12:02 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I don't recall it being very Ron Paulish in nature. They probably had some things in common. But mainly it was an anti-Obama movement obsessed with taxes, spending and opposition to Obamacare specifically and government involvement in economic matters generally. Paul might go along with that but it lacked his isolationism and social libertarianism and was far more focused on anti-Obamaism than the Paul family which tends more toward ideas than hating on the president. It was more modern conservative than iconoclastic libertarian.
I believe the Ron Paul surge started it all. That said - I find it hilarious that anyone that isn't a neocon is an isolationist.
I didn't use isolationist as a pejorative. I don't share that view but I don't consider it a bad thing.
|
|
"The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them." - George Orwell, 1984
|
| |
|
jake58
|
May 11 2016, 06:31 AM
Post #50
|
|
- Posts:
- 5,340
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #47
- Joined:
- Mar 19, 2016
|
- nNeo
- May 11 2016, 12:24 AM
- jake58
- May 10 2016, 10:43 PM
ha, just another self righteous yahoo who doesn't understand the general public's level of disgust with where we are and the leaders who got us here...
Since that's literally what the article is about, you either didn't read it, or didn't understand it. Point being a segment is indeed disgusted and/or afraid,largely for the wrong reasons and at the wrong things, and because of that, wants changes that would likely make most or all of their problems worse. Symbolism and emotion have displaced fact and reason to a dangerous degree. No, I didn't read the article, I eschew Andrew Sullivan at virtually any cost - I was responding to the bit that you quoted, which came off exactly as I said.
People are angry, whether anyone else thinks it's justifiable or intellectually thought out is immaterial. Trump has merely been the beneficiary of that largely unfocused anger and pols of all stripes and pseudo intellectuals in the media and elsewhere have made a pig's breakfast of interpreting this anger.
A vocal segment of the population doesn't really want an ever increasing govt not being able to provide basic functions while siphoning off up to 40% of gdp to feed its own growth - no, sorry, that's me... but there is a growing demographic that have been left behind economically and in the job market over the last generation and don't understand why(no one in authority has really addressed this or offered a solution) and they don't understand why govt is putting no resources towards fixing this very obvious problem, to them at least.
Trump is an intellectual black hole with no idea how to fix what ails us, but he's angry, and he gives voice to those who are angry as well. Unfortunately, he's not a threat to the system nor would he be able to affect any real change on his own, whatever you or Andrew Sullivan think.
|
|
That which can be asserted without evidence; can be dismissed without evidence- Christopher Hitchens
|
| |
|
jake58
|
May 11 2016, 06:35 AM
Post #51
|
|
- Posts:
- 5,340
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #47
- Joined:
- Mar 19, 2016
|
- thwlruss
- May 11 2016, 03:04 AM
- jake58
- May 10 2016, 10:43 PM
- nNeo
- May 10 2016, 10:22 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
ha, just another self righteous yahoo who doesn't understand the general public's level of disgust with where we are and the leaders who got us here...
if you weren't such a dishonest bitch, id call you on this BS another of your weighty and vigorous defenses of govt... way to go g/f
|
|
That which can be asserted without evidence; can be dismissed without evidence- Christopher Hitchens
|
| |
|
Harambe4Trump
|
May 11 2016, 08:23 AM
Post #52
|
|
- Posts:
- 17,324
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #42
- Joined:
- Mar 18, 2016
|
- Two a.m.
- May 11 2016, 02:57 AM
- American Identitarian
- May 11 2016, 01:32 AM
I would never believe not accept that an order of President Trump would be illegal.
If there is a better statement of why people fear Trump would herald the onset of tyranny, I can't think of any one more chilling than the one you just uttered. "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend DONALD TRUMP against all enemies OF DONALD TRUMP, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to DONALD TRUMP; and that I will obey the orders of DONALD TRUMP and the orders of the officers appointed over me BY DONALD TRUMP, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of DONALD TRUMP. So help me DONALD TRUMP." There's absolutely nothing wrong with that pledge.
|
Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary. #MAGA #wallsnotwars
|
| |
|
nNeo
|
May 11 2016, 08:35 AM
Post #53
|
|
- Posts:
- 2,849
- Group:
- Global Moderators
- Member
- #16
- Joined:
- Mar 17, 2016
|
- jake58
- May 11 2016, 06:31 AM
People are angry, whether anyone else thinks it's justifiable or intellectually thought out is immaterial. Trump has merely been the beneficiary of that largely unfocused anger and pols of all stripes and pseudo intellectuals in the media and elsewhere have made a pig's breakfast of interpreting this anger.
A vocal segment of the population doesn't really want an ever increasing govt not being able to provide basic functions while siphoning off up to 40% of gdp to feed its own growth - no, sorry, that's me... but there is a growing demographic that have been left behind economically and in the job market over the last generation and don't understand why(no one in authority has really addressed this or offered a solution) and they don't understand why govt is putting no resources towards fixing this very obvious problem, to them at least.
Trump is an intellectual black hole with no idea how to fix what ails us, but he's angry, and he gives voice to those who are angry as well. Unfortunately, he's not a threat to the system nor would he be able to affect any real change on his own, whatever you or Andrew Sullivan think. Sullivan pretty much agrees with you, as do I. The concern is not so much for Trump himself, but for the disconnect and misdirected anger that made him possible, and Sanders to a lessor degree.
|
|
“Strong people don’t need strong leaders.”
|
| |
|
Attaburnsinhell
|
May 11 2016, 08:55 AM
Post #54
|
|
- Posts:
- 6,667
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #66
- Joined:
- Mar 20, 2016
|
- Two a.m.
- May 10 2016, 11:17 PM
We never thought there could be anything worse the the Tea Party's bad ideas. Enter Trump's lack of ideas.
Worst of all, no one seems to care. Trump seems able to disregard not just traditional party positions but even his own previous positions and none of it much matters. People are in love with the emotion. They don't care about the content. Same thing going on with Bernie. Actually Sanders is the one with vision, bold ideas and an open set of plans
You ask hillarybots what shes about, you end up with lots of flying mouth spittle but little else to make her case. All they know is shes Hillary and its her turn
The democratis party is as equally to blame for the rise of Trump as the republicans. Both parties ran to the rich, while paying lip service to entitled groups, while ignoring and abandoning a wide swarth of the working public
Kind of like a spouse that abandoned his family for some chippy, now hes befuddled as to why his wife wants a divorce
|
|
|
| |
|
clone
|
May 11 2016, 09:26 AM
Post #55
|
|
Director @ Center for Advanced Memetic Warfare
- Posts:
- 26,334
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #155
- Joined:
- Apr 4, 2016
|
- Two a.m.
- May 11 2016, 02:57 AM
- American Identitarian
- May 11 2016, 01:32 AM
I would never believe not accept that an order of President Trump would be illegal.
If there is a better statement of why people fear Trump would herald the onset of tyranny, I can't think of any one more chilling than the one you just uttered. "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend DONALD TRUMP against all enemies OF DONALD TRUMP, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to DONALD TRUMP; and that I will obey the orders of DONALD TRUMP and the orders of the officers appointed over me BY DONALD TRUMP, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of DONALD TRUMP. So help me DONALD TRUMP." Hope & Change....
|
Only liberals can choose not to go down the road to widespread, systematic violence.
|
| |
|
Dem4life
|
May 11 2016, 09:45 AM
Post #56
|
|
- Posts:
- 5,083
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #32
- Joined:
- Mar 18, 2016
|
- American Identitarian
- May 11 2016, 01:06 AM
- nNeo
- May 11 2016, 12:50 AM
- American Identitarian
- May 11 2016, 12:45 AM
The horror and horror of knowing how to successfully market to the masses?
It's far past marketing. It's manipulation, fear mongering, incitement, and blatant lies. - American Identitarian
- May 11 2016, 12:45 AM
Will we know hear a treatise on how Interstellar relied on emotion and symbols to create a compelling story instead of relying on cold logic?
Fantasy and emotion are lovely for entertainment, but not a basis for public policy. There should be a clear distinction, but as media has been reporting less and less factual news, and spending more and more time telling you how to feel about it, that line has been blurred. Millions of people are now angry without really knowing why, and even over things that haven't actually happened. There's a huge disconnect between perception and reality, and that's an expressway to bad decisions.
People know exactly why they are angry. We have been at war with jihadism since September 11 which led to two foreign adventure wherein thousands of Americans died for nothing with many more maimed. Wages have been stagnant since 2000 but not for the 1%. This country is being transformed into Mexico. The economy crashed in 2008 while the bankers responsible were largely unpunished. People are emotional and respond to symbols. Steve Jobs understood this and created the most profitable mobile company when the iPhone is objectively no better than Android. Drone on about Trump's masterful persuasive skills, but that is not a legitimate criticism. Being that supporters of The Donald are concerned about stagnate wages, how do you feel about his proposal to get rid of minimum wage...
|
|
|
| |
|
Dem4life
|
May 11 2016, 09:50 AM
Post #57
|
|
- Posts:
- 5,083
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #32
- Joined:
- Mar 18, 2016
|
- Attaburnsinhell
- May 11 2016, 08:55 AM
- Two a.m.
- May 10 2016, 11:17 PM
We never thought there could be anything worse the the Tea Party's bad ideas. Enter Trump's lack of ideas.
Worst of all, no one seems to care. Trump seems able to disregard not just traditional party positions but even his own previous positions and none of it much matters. People are in love with the emotion. They don't care about the content. Same thing going on with Bernie.
Actually Sanders is the one with vision, bold ideas and an open set of plans You ask hillarybots what shes about, you end up with lots of flying mouth spittle but little else to make her case. All they know is shes Hillary and its her turn The democratis party is as equally to blame for the rise of Trump as the republicans. Both parties ran to the rich, while paying lip service to entitled groups, while ignoring and abandoning a wide swarth of the working public Kind of like a spouse that abandoned his family for some chippy, now hes befuddled as to why his wife wants a divorce The Democratic Party isn't to blame for Trump. That's nothing but nonsense from republicans who don't want to own up to their party's candidate...
|
|
|
| |
|
clone
|
May 11 2016, 09:58 AM
Post #58
|
|
Director @ Center for Advanced Memetic Warfare
- Posts:
- 26,334
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #155
- Joined:
- Apr 4, 2016
|
- Dem4life
- May 11 2016, 09:50 AM
- Attaburnsinhell
- May 11 2016, 08:55 AM
- Two a.m.
- May 10 2016, 11:17 PM
We never thought there could be anything worse the the Tea Party's bad ideas. Enter Trump's lack of ideas.
Worst of all, no one seems to care. Trump seems able to disregard not just traditional party positions but even his own previous positions and none of it much matters. People are in love with the emotion. They don't care about the content. Same thing going on with Bernie.
Actually Sanders is the one with vision, bold ideas and an open set of plans You ask hillarybots what shes about, you end up with lots of flying mouth spittle but little else to make her case. All they know is shes Hillary and its her turn The democratis party is as equally to blame for the rise of Trump as the republicans. Both parties ran to the rich, while paying lip service to entitled groups, while ignoring and abandoning a wide swarth of the working public Kind of like a spouse that abandoned his family for some chippy, now hes befuddled as to why his wife wants a divorce
The Democratic Party isn't to blame for Trump. That's nothing but nonsense from republicans who don't want to own up to their party's candidate... EXIT POLL: One-Third of West Virginia DEMOCRATS Will Vote TRUMP
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/05/breaking-poll-one-third-west-virginia-democrats-will-vote-trump/
|
Only liberals can choose not to go down the road to widespread, systematic violence.
|
| |
|
Dem4life
|
May 11 2016, 10:06 AM
Post #59
|
|
- Posts:
- 5,083
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #32
- Joined:
- Mar 18, 2016
|
- clone
- May 11 2016, 09:58 AM
Weren't you whining on another thread about not trusting polls
|
|
|
| |
|
clone
|
May 11 2016, 10:15 AM
Post #60
|
|
Director @ Center for Advanced Memetic Warfare
- Posts:
- 26,334
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #155
- Joined:
- Apr 4, 2016
|
- Ronin
- May 10 2016, 10:05 PM
- clone
- May 10 2016, 10:01 PM
andrew sullivan? the brit who posted anonymous online advertisements for unprotected anal sex, preferably with "other HIV-positive men"....worried about tyranny? I think he's got other issues to worry about....
Do you not read things written by gay folks? Every day....
http://www.gaypatriot.net/
|
Only liberals can choose not to go down the road to widespread, systematic violence.
|
| |
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
|