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Trump Sanders Debate?
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Topic Started: May 26 2016, 11:31 AM (954 Views)
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clone
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May 26 2016, 03:28 PM
Post #21
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Director @ Center for Advanced Memetic Warfare
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Hillary gave a rousing speech....Said only one person ever..... 
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Only liberals can choose not to go down the road to widespread, systematic violence.
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Two a.m.
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May 26 2016, 03:28 PM
Post #22
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- estonianman
- May 26 2016, 03:25 PM
- Two a.m.
- May 26 2016, 03:22 PM
- Opinionated
- May 26 2016, 02:43 PM
Ah, I see. The Democratic idea of competition is that the candidate running behind should ease up so the one ahead can win more easily. Because of course, that's exactly what Clinton did for Obama. 
Bernie isn't simply "running behind." He's lost the race by any rational measure. Most candidates would have dropped out by now. Those few who stay in generally don't do anything to harm the nominee once their own fate is clear. But, yes, that is what Hillary did for Obama. After he claimed a slightly larger delegate count then her, she did indeed back off, concede and waved off the idea of a convention fight. She then gave a rousing speech backing him and fought to elect him. This wasn't easy. In fact, it took a couple of days as I recall for her to decide to give up. Notably, her moral case for waging a superdelegate war as Bernie is doing was far, far stronger than Bernie's is. Her popular vote total was virtually even with Obama's while Bernie is down by three million votes. DNC rules robbed her of a significant share of delegates from Michigan and Florida, two large states where she was popular. Bernie has suffered nothing similar. Most of her wins were in primaries which better represent the voters' will. Most of Bernies' wins were in caucuses - like Washington State - where he won huge margins despite the bulk of primary voters backing Hillary Clinton. She also had more superdelegate support than he has. But still she conceded. She didn't incite her supporters against the party with baseless charges of favoritism. She didn't try to undercut Obama by staging debates with John McCain. She didn't promise thing could get "messy" at the convention. That's because Hillary Clinton has loyalty to something larger than herself. If Sanders has such a loyalty, it certainly isn't to the Democratic Party.
To be fair though - the delegates have only pledged their support. That isn't cemented until the convention. The superdelegates can change their minds, yes.
But the delegates won in primaries and caucuses - known as "pledged delegates" - are actually cemented. She leads Bernie significantly there. There are enough superdelegates to wipe out her pledged delegate lead of course, should they choose to do so.
But if she leads in pledged delegates and popular vote, it is difficult to argue that they should unless - perhaps - she were actually indicted. Maybe then...
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"The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them." - George Orwell, 1984
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estonianman
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May 26 2016, 03:30 PM
Post #23
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thanks for clarifying
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MEEK AND MILD
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estonianman
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May 26 2016, 03:33 PM
Post #24
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- Two a.m.
- May 26 2016, 03:28 PM
But if she leads in pledged delegates and popular vote, it is difficult to argue that they should unless - perhaps - she were actually indicted. Maybe then...
That's why I think the DNC who doesn't want Bernie as the nominee - wants to prevent him from becoming the nominee by default, if the indictments do happen.
Someone is getting ready to step up as a backup - Biden?
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MEEK AND MILD
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Two a.m.
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May 26 2016, 03:51 PM
Post #25
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- estonianman
- May 26 2016, 03:33 PM
- Two a.m.
- May 26 2016, 03:28 PM
But if she leads in pledged delegates and popular vote, it is difficult to argue that they should unless - perhaps - she were actually indicted. Maybe then...
That's why I think the DNC who doesn't want Bernie as the nominee - wants to prevent him from becoming the nominee by default, if the indictments do happen. Someone is getting ready to step up as a backup - Biden? I don't know what the rules would be on that or how that would play out. I guess the superdelegates would have to vote for Biden and prevent a majority of the delegates from forming. Then the pledged delegates get released - and all hell breaks loose.
Hard to see Biden being the guy at that point since the Bernie people would go utterly bonkers and Bernie has shown he's certainly not the self-sacrificing type so he'd be unlikely to discourage his people from going off half-xxxxed.
Still, Bernie has set himself up as such an enemy to the Democratic establishment, it is hard to see them casting a ballot for him.
Perhaps Biden could make a deal with Bernie and put him on the ticket. Then maybe...
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"The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them." - George Orwell, 1984
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clone
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May 27 2016, 01:13 PM
Post #26
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Director @ Center for Advanced Memetic Warfare
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Only liberals can choose not to go down the road to widespread, systematic violence.
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dcbl
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May 27 2016, 01:19 PM
Post #27
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Good guys wear white hats
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- Two a.m.
- May 26 2016, 01:15 PM
- Opinionated
- May 26 2016, 12:52 PM
- Two a.m.
- May 26 2016, 12:50 PM
It is completely inappropriate for Sanders to collude with the Republican nominee in an attempt to raise his profile in the Democratic race. I'd like to say I'm shocked at his continued disloyalty to the party he conveniently became a member of last year but, frankly, I'm not. Bernie is all about Bernie.
And how, exactly, does the man who will not be the Democratic nominee debating the man who will be the Republican nominee, harm the Democratic party?
Because he is doing it to undercut his opponent. I used to believe Sanders had some integrity. I now believe he has none. None at all. His only loyalty is to himself. That I share a political party with this charlatan sickens me. At this point, if the Republican nominee were anyone other than Trump, Cruz or Carson, I'd have to genuinely consider voting for him or her over Sanders. The man has done nothing but whine endlessly - and often baselessly - about how the Democratic Party has sleighted or him in one way or another yet Sanders himself has shown absolutely zero loyalty to that party at any point. He accuses it of fraud and wrongdoing regularly, sues it in court, uses it as a scapegoat every time he loses. He ignores the advice of its leaders and only grudgingly condemns threats of violence toward it by his supporters whose flames he fans regularly. He does not respect the party's rules, processes or traditions (except when those things benefit him). He refused for decades to even be a member of the party - until it suited his interest. He is a fake Democrat employing the party's resources and position as a vehicle for his own agenda. I can understand if people believe Hillary Clinton is dishonest or who doubt her integrity. What I cannot understand is how someone could believe a disloyal, manipulative and opportunistic demagogue like Sanders - whose actions have borne out his true nature at every turn - is somehow a better or more honest alternative. I won't even lie about it - this is a far bigger and better story than anything about deleted emails could ever hope to be
Wasn't this supposed to be happening to repubs whilst our friends on the left were holding hands and sing kumbaya????
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Republicans sign checks on the front, democrats sign them on the back…True story!
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Robert Stout
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May 27 2016, 01:27 PM
Post #28
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- dcbl
- May 27 2016, 01:19 PM
- Two a.m.
- May 26 2016, 01:15 PM
- Opinionated
- May 26 2016, 12:52 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Because he is doing it to undercut his opponent. I used to believe Sanders had some integrity. I now believe he has none. None at all. His only loyalty is to himself. That I share a political party with this charlatan sickens me. At this point, if the Republican nominee were anyone other than Trump, Cruz or Carson, I'd have to genuinely consider voting for him or her over Sanders. The man has done nothing but whine endlessly - and often baselessly - about how the Democratic Party has sleighted or him in one way or another yet Sanders himself has shown absolutely zero loyalty to that party at any point. He accuses it of fraud and wrongdoing regularly, sues it in court, uses it as a scapegoat every time he loses. He ignores the advice of its leaders and only grudgingly condemns threats of violence toward it by his supporters whose flames he fans regularly. He does not respect the party's rules, processes or traditions (except when those things benefit him). He refused for decades to even be a member of the party - until it suited his interest. He is a fake Democrat employing the party's resources and position as a vehicle for his own agenda. I can understand if people believe Hillary Clinton is dishonest or who doubt her integrity. What I cannot understand is how someone could believe a disloyal, manipulative and opportunistic demagogue like Sanders - whose actions have borne out his true nature at every turn - is somehow a better or more honest alternative.
I won't even lie about it - this is a far bigger and better story than anything about deleted emails could ever hope to be Wasn't this supposed to be happening to repubs whilst our friends on the left were holding hands and sing kumbaya???? Sanders could outsmart the Democratic Party...Hell, one of my chihuahuas could outsmart the Democratic Party..................
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Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid
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Robertr2000
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May 27 2016, 03:04 PM
Post #29
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I like Bernie. Apart from that whole Socialist thing he seems like an OK guy
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"if that **** wins we'll all hang from nooses"
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Two a.m.
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May 27 2016, 04:03 PM
Post #30
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- dcbl
- May 27 2016, 01:19 PM
- Two a.m.
- May 26 2016, 01:15 PM
- Opinionated
- May 26 2016, 12:52 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Because he is doing it to undercut his opponent. I used to believe Sanders had some integrity. I now believe he has none. None at all. His only loyalty is to himself. That I share a political party with this charlatan sickens me. At this point, if the Republican nominee were anyone other than Trump, Cruz or Carson, I'd have to genuinely consider voting for him or her over Sanders. The man has done nothing but whine endlessly - and often baselessly - about how the Democratic Party has sleighted or him in one way or another yet Sanders himself has shown absolutely zero loyalty to that party at any point. He accuses it of fraud and wrongdoing regularly, sues it in court, uses it as a scapegoat every time he loses. He ignores the advice of its leaders and only grudgingly condemns threats of violence toward it by his supporters whose flames he fans regularly. He does not respect the party's rules, processes or traditions (except when those things benefit him). He refused for decades to even be a member of the party - until it suited his interest. He is a fake Democrat employing the party's resources and position as a vehicle for his own agenda. I can understand if people believe Hillary Clinton is dishonest or who doubt her integrity. What I cannot understand is how someone could believe a disloyal, manipulative and opportunistic demagogue like Sanders - whose actions have borne out his true nature at every turn - is somehow a better or more honest alternative.
I won't even lie about it - this is a far bigger and better story than anything about deleted emails could ever hope to be Wasn't this supposed to be happening to repubs whilst our friends on the left were holding hands and sing kumbaya????
Yep. The Sanders people have managed to screw up a pretty good thing. The political left is about to talk its way out of the most liberal Supreme Court in a generation.
If there is one thing liberals know how to do better than anyone else, it is finding creative ways to get their butts kicked despite having every advantage in fights they should win easily. Bernie Sanders is only the latest means to this end.
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"The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them." - George Orwell, 1984
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Harambe4Trump
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May 27 2016, 04:09 PM
Post #31
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The Sanders Debate Gambit
Both Trump and Sanders could attack Clinton on stage, to huge ratings, while Clinton has no effective way to respond. Clinton can’t even TALK about the debate without giving it more attention.
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Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary. #MAGA #wallsnotwars
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Coast2coast
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May 27 2016, 04:11 PM
Post #32
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Its moot anyway. Mr. Trump will find some reason he can't do it.
Debate over.
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Harambe4Trump
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May 27 2016, 04:14 PM
Post #33
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- Coast2coast
- May 27 2016, 04:11 PM
Its moot anyway. Mr. Trump will find some reason he can't do it.
Debate over.
That was never the point. He grabbed the media's attention and has sown discord with the Democratic Party. He played Clinton and Sanders like a violin and it was beautiful.
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Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary. #MAGA #wallsnotwars
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Coast2coast
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May 27 2016, 04:32 PM
Post #34
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- American Identitarian
- May 27 2016, 04:14 PM
- Coast2coast
- May 27 2016, 04:11 PM
Its moot anyway. Mr. Trump will find some reason he can't do it.
Debate over.
That was never the point. He grabbed the media's attention and has sown discord with the Democratic Party. He played Clinton and Sanders like a violin and it was beautiful. When Mr. Trump said he would at a price, he expected the response from Senator Sanders to be "no".
The only one in that game that got beat was Mr. Trump at his own game.
So, what will his excuse be when he doesn't debate?
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Harambe4Trump
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May 27 2016, 04:37 PM
Post #35
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- Coast2coast
- May 27 2016, 04:32 PM
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- May 27 2016, 04:14 PM
- Coast2coast
- May 27 2016, 04:11 PM
Its moot anyway. Mr. Trump will find some reason he can't do it.
Debate over.
That was never the point. He grabbed the media's attention and has sown discord with the Democratic Party. He played Clinton and Sanders like a violin and it was beautiful.
When Mr. Trump said he would at a price, he expected the response from Senator Sanders to be "no". The only one in that game that got beat was Mr. Trump at his own game. So, what will his excuse be when he doesn't debate? It is completely inappropriate for Sanders to collude with the Republican nominee in an attempt to raise his profile in the Democratic race. I'd like to say I'm shocked at his continued disloyalty to the party he conveniently became a member of last year but, frankly, I'm not. Bernie is all about Bernie.
Who wrote this?
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Skipping leg day is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. You're ashamed of it, and it was probably unnecessary. #MAGA #wallsnotwars
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Coast2coast
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May 27 2016, 04:52 PM
Post #36
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- American Identitarian
- May 27 2016, 04:37 PM
- Coast2coast
- May 27 2016, 04:32 PM
- American Identitarian
- May 27 2016, 04:14 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
When Mr. Trump said he would at a price, he expected the response from Senator Sanders to be "no". The only one in that game that got beat was Mr. Trump at his own game. So, what will his excuse be when he doesn't debate?
It is completely inappropriate for Sanders to collude with the Republican nominee in an attempt to raise his profile in the Democratic race. I'd like to say I'm shocked at his continued disloyalty to the party he conveniently became a member of last year but, frankly, I'm not. Bernie is all about Bernie. Who wrote this? All you are doing is confirming that you know that Mr. Trump got played at his own game.
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Opinionated
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May 27 2016, 04:55 PM
Post #37
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- American Identitarian
- May 27 2016, 04:37 PM
- Coast2coast
- May 27 2016, 04:32 PM
- American Identitarian
- May 27 2016, 04:14 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
When Mr. Trump said he would at a price, he expected the response from Senator Sanders to be "no". The only one in that game that got beat was Mr. Trump at his own game. So, what will his excuse be when he doesn't debate?
It is completely inappropriate for Sanders to collude with the Republican nominee in an attempt to raise his profile in the Democratic race. I'd like to say I'm shocked at his continued disloyalty to the party he conveniently became a member of last year but, frankly, I'm not. Bernie is all about Bernie. Who wrote this? Pretty sure that was Two a.m.
It sounds just like him.
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coverpoint
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May 27 2016, 05:04 PM
Post #38
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After June 7th. I think it would be a great idea for Senator Sanders to debate Mr. Trump.
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dcbl
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May 27 2016, 05:11 PM
Post #39
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Good guys wear white hats
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this whole fiasco is a black eye for Hillary and her campaign
She gets egg on her face and looks bad for not debating Sanders in the 1st place
Furthermore, Trump and Sanders both get positive media attention and even accolades - this will certainly pass and blow over; but chalk this up as +1 for the Trump campaign this week
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Republicans sign checks on the front, democrats sign them on the back…True story!
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Two a.m.
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May 27 2016, 05:15 PM
Post #40
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- dcbl
- May 27 2016, 05:11 PM
this whole fiasco is a black eye for Hillary and her campaign
She gets egg on her face and looks bad for not debating Sanders in the 1st place
Furthermore, Trump and Sanders both get positive media attention and even accolades - this will certainly pass and blow over; but chalk this up as +1 for the Trump campaign this week It is good for Sanders and bad for Hillary but I don't know how good it is for Trump. I don't think he ever expected Sanders would take him up on the offer and he is now trying to get out of it. If he did do it, there wouldn't be a ton of upside for him as he's already won his race. Meanwhile, if it becomes contentious, he risks alienating the very Sanders voters that he hopes to woo from the Democrats.
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"The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them." - George Orwell, 1984
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