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And the most honest candidate is...
Topic Started: May 30 2016, 05:23 PM (1,668 Views)
CautionaryTales
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ringotuna
Jun 2 2016, 06:34 AM
This whole exercise in quantifying who's the 'worser' liar by count is pretty pointless.

Lil Johnny is caught telling 20 lies...Lil Suzie is caught telling 10. Which one is trustworthy? :oyvey
If this were about schoolyard kids you might be right.
It's not.
It's about judging the two (2) people that have a realistic chance to be the next President.


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ringotuna
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CautionaryTales
Jun 2 2016, 07:07 AM
ringotuna
Jun 2 2016, 06:34 AM
This whole exercise in quantifying who's the 'worser' liar by count is pretty pointless.

Lil Johnny is caught telling 20 lies...Lil Suzie is caught telling 10. Which one is trustworthy? :oyvey
If this were about schoolyard kids you might be right.
It's not.
It's about judging the two (2) people that have a realistic chance to be the next President.
Ok, so you don't like my analogy.

Little Donnie get's caught telling 20 lies..Little Hillary get's caught telling 10.

Which one is trustworthy?


All better now?
Ringoism: Never underestimate the advantages of being underestimated.
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CautionaryTales
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ringotuna
Jun 2 2016, 07:11 AM
CautionaryTales
Jun 2 2016, 07:07 AM
ringotuna
Jun 2 2016, 06:34 AM
This whole exercise in quantifying who's the 'worser' liar by count is pretty pointless.

Lil Johnny is caught telling 20 lies...Lil Suzie is caught telling 10. Which one is trustworthy? :oyvey
If this were about schoolyard kids you might be right.
It's not.
It's about judging the two (2) people that have a realistic chance to be the next President.
Ok, so you don't like my analogy.

Little Donnie get's caught telling 20 lies..Little Hillary get's caught telling 10.

Which one is trustworthy?


All better now?
Two am's compliation is a decent point to make.


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ringotuna
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CautionaryTales
Jun 2 2016, 07:12 AM
ringotuna
Jun 2 2016, 07:11 AM
CautionaryTales
Jun 2 2016, 07:07 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Ok, so you don't like my analogy.

Little Donnie get's caught telling 20 lies..Little Hillary get's caught telling 10.

Which one is trustworthy?


All better now?
Two am's compliation is a decent point to make.


Which one is trustworthy? The correct answer is neither.
Edited by ringotuna, Jun 2 2016, 07:16 AM.
Ringoism: Never underestimate the advantages of being underestimated.
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CautionaryTales
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ringotuna
Jun 2 2016, 07:15 AM
CautionaryTales
Jun 2 2016, 07:12 AM
ringotuna
Jun 2 2016, 07:11 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Two am's compliation is a decent point to make.


Which one is trustworthy? The correct answer is neither.
The question is which one is most honest.
It's in the title of the thread.
Edited by CautionaryTales, Jun 2 2016, 07:27 AM.


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Two a.m.
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CautionaryTales
Jun 2 2016, 06:21 AM
Two a.m.
May 30 2016, 05:23 PM
I compiled a list from Politifact of every candidate who had at least a handful of statements rated...(sorry George Pataki)...

Anyway of those ranked, from most accurate to least accurate by the percentage of true or mostly true statements.

1) Jim Webb 80
2) John Kasich 53
3) Bernie Sanders52
4) Hillary Clinton50
Bobby Jindal50
6) Jeb Bush 48
7) Rand Paul 46
8) Lincoln Chaffee39
Chris Christie39
Lindsey Graham 39
11) Marco Rubio36
12) Scott Walker35
13) Rick Perry 29
14) Carly Fiorina28
15) Mike Huckabee27
16) Ted Cruz 24
17) Martin O’Malley 22
Rick Santorum22
19) Donald Trump8
20) Ben Carson7


Technically, while Webb gets the honors here for truthfulness, both he and Jindal had few ranked statements so it is probably really Kasich who is most truthful followed by Sanders and then Clinton.

The least accurate as ranked by percentage of mostly false, false and pants on fire statements:

1) Ben Carson 82
2) Donald Trump76
3) Ted Cruz 64
4) Carly Fiorina55
Rick Santorum55
6) Mike Huckabee51
7) Rick Perry 47
8) Scott Walker46
9) Lincoln Chaffee45
10) Marco Rubio42
11) Rand Paul 36
12) Chris Christie35
13) Lindsey Graham 34
14) John Kasich32
15) Jeb Bush 31
16) Bernie Sanders30
17) Hillary Clinton28
18) Martin O’Malley 23
19) Bobby Jindal10
Jim Webb 10

Meanwhile, those with the biggest "pants on fire" percentage - the ones who most commonly said the craziest untrue stuff...

1) Donald Trump19
2) Ben Carson 14
3) Rick Perry 11
4) Mike Huckabee10
5) Carly Fiorina9
6) Chris Christie8
Rick Santorum8
8) Ted Cruz 7
Scott Walker7
10) Rand Paul 6
11) John Kasich5
12) Jeb Bush 3
Marco Rubio3
14) Hillary Clinton1
15) Lincoln Chaffee0
Lindsey Graham 0
Bobby Jindal0
Martin O’Malley 0
Bernie Sanders0
Jim Webb 0
How is it that Hillary Clinton is getting painted as the most dishonest person on the planet?
That's what stands out to me from this list.
It is all about likability. If we find someone likable, we tend to associate positive qualities with them - including honesty. We can forgive Bill Clinton his lies because he's charming.

But when it is Hillary, well...she's just a liar.
"The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them." - George Orwell, 1984
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Two a.m.
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ringotuna
Jun 2 2016, 07:15 AM
CautionaryTales
Jun 2 2016, 07:12 AM
ringotuna
Jun 2 2016, 07:11 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Two am's compliation is a decent point to make.


Which one is trustworthy? The correct answer is neither.
Have you ever lied to anyone about anything? Even once?

If you have, does that mean you are an irredeemably dishonest person?

For the record, I've lied before. But most of my friends consider me among the most honest people they know. And they're right. I am.

Funny how we apply such exacting standards to politicians but we'd never apply them to our own behavior.
Edited by Two a.m., Jun 2 2016, 10:21 AM.
"The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them." - George Orwell, 1984
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edro14

Let me get this right, Texans are known for tall tales...do they tell the truth?
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ringotuna
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CautionaryTales
Jun 2 2016, 07:26 AM
ringotuna
Jun 2 2016, 07:15 AM
CautionaryTales
Jun 2 2016, 07:12 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep


Which one is trustworthy? The correct answer is neither.
The question is which one is most honest.
It's in the title of the thread.
Does P.com allow only one question per thread now, or are you just trying to avoid my question?
Ringoism: Never underestimate the advantages of being underestimated.
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ringotuna
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Two a.m.
Jun 2 2016, 10:20 AM
ringotuna
Jun 2 2016, 07:15 AM
CautionaryTales
Jun 2 2016, 07:12 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep


Which one is trustworthy? The correct answer is neither.
Have you ever lied to anyone about anything? Even once?

If you have, does that mean you are an irredeemably dishonest person?

For the record, I've lied before. But most of my friends consider me among the most honest people they know. And they're right. I am.

Funny how we apply such exacting standards to politicians but we'd never apply them to our own behavior.
We've had that discussion before Two, and nothing has changed. I don't hold candidates to a higher standard. I hold them to the same standard I try to hold for myself. If you understood the business I'm in you'd recognize why trustworthiness is paramount.

Although we both know neither candidate is trustworthy, it's pointless to try and score their honesty in this way. Like I said earlier, 'garbage in...garbage out' You yourself said your summary is unscientific. I very much agree, and no offense, but I believe whatever time you put in to this exercise could have been better spent on other endeavors. There is no reliable basis here to judge the integrity of one candidate over the other.

But if you look closely, there are some distinctions which can be made between Clinton's and Trump's lies. Trump's spewings are reactionary and visceral. His bullsh!t seems to roll off his tongue without ever passing through a brain. He has no filter so to speak. Clinton's on the other hand are far more subtle and contrived, as if borne from a damage control war room filled with minions brain storming how to plausibly deny certain facts. Quite the opposite of Trump's, Hillary's lies are careful and thoughtful constructs of deception. One only has to look at the evolution of her statements regarding her handling of classified information on her server to recognize this.

This distinction I believe, is why some folks here say they prefer Trump's 'honest bullsh!t' over Hillary's. "He speaks his mind" they say. And they have a point, he is indeed more straight-forward but for me that counts for absolutely nothing. It's what's in his sick mind that's disturbing.

Measuring the honesty of habitual liars such as Clinton & Trump?....It's like asking whether the half full septic tank smells fresher than the full tank.
Ringoism: Never underestimate the advantages of being underestimated.
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CautionaryTales
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ringotuna
Jun 3 2016, 04:04 AM
CautionaryTales
Jun 2 2016, 07:26 AM
ringotuna
Jun 2 2016, 07:15 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
The question is which one is most honest.
It's in the title of the thread.
Does P.com allow only one question per thread now, or are you just trying to avoid my question?
There will be two people left to vote for after Tuesday night.
Since no one is perfect both have issues of truth in their histories.
Incidentally, so do you and so do I. So does everyone.
This I freely admit.

But in the case of the election the two that matter, they can be judged objectively in the way the op has presented in this thread.




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ringotuna
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CautionaryTales
Jun 3 2016, 05:37 AM
ringotuna
Jun 3 2016, 04:04 AM
CautionaryTales
Jun 2 2016, 07:26 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepmost honest.
It's in the title of the thread.
Does P.com allow only one question per thread now, or are you just trying to avoid my question?


But in the case of the election the two that matter, they can be judged objectively in the way the op has presented in this thread.


I disagree. :biggrin:
Ringoism: Never underestimate the advantages of being underestimated.
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CautionaryTales
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ringotuna
Jun 3 2016, 05:45 AM
CautionaryTales
Jun 3 2016, 05:37 AM
ringotuna
Jun 3 2016, 04:04 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepmost


But in the case of the election the two that matter, they can be judged objectively in the way the op has presented in this thread.


I disagree. :biggrin:
I'm sure you do.


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ringotuna
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CautionaryTales
Jun 3 2016, 05:46 AM
ringotuna
Jun 3 2016, 05:45 AM
CautionaryTales
Jun 3 2016, 05:37 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepmost
I disagree. :biggrin:
I'm sure you do.
With good reason. :biggrin:
Ringoism: Never underestimate the advantages of being underestimated.
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CautionaryTales
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ringotuna
Jun 3 2016, 05:52 AM
CautionaryTales
Jun 3 2016, 05:46 AM
ringotuna
Jun 3 2016, 05:45 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepmost
I'm sure you do.
With good reason. :biggrin:
Yes, you don't like her.
Fair enough.
But that has nothing to do with two am's compilation.


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CautionaryTales
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Two a.m.
Jun 2 2016, 10:16 AM
CautionaryTales
Jun 2 2016, 06:21 AM
Two a.m.
May 30 2016, 05:23 PM
I compiled a list from Politifact of every candidate who had at least a handful of statements rated...(sorry George Pataki)...

Anyway of those ranked, from most accurate to least accurate by the percentage of true or mostly true statements.

1) Jim Webb 80
2) John Kasich 53
3) Bernie Sanders52
4) Hillary Clinton50
Bobby Jindal50
6) Jeb Bush 48
7) Rand Paul 46
8) Lincoln Chaffee39
Chris Christie39
Lindsey Graham 39
11) Marco Rubio36
12) Scott Walker35
13) Rick Perry 29
14) Carly Fiorina28
15) Mike Huckabee27
16) Ted Cruz 24
17) Martin O’Malley 22
Rick Santorum22
19) Donald Trump8
20) Ben Carson7


Technically, while Webb gets the honors here for truthfulness, both he and Jindal had few ranked statements so it is probably really Kasich who is most truthful followed by Sanders and then Clinton.

The least accurate as ranked by percentage of mostly false, false and pants on fire statements:

1) Ben Carson 82
2) Donald Trump76
3) Ted Cruz 64
4) Carly Fiorina55
Rick Santorum55
6) Mike Huckabee51
7) Rick Perry 47
8) Scott Walker46
9) Lincoln Chaffee45
10) Marco Rubio42
11) Rand Paul 36
12) Chris Christie35
13) Lindsey Graham 34
14) John Kasich32
15) Jeb Bush 31
16) Bernie Sanders30
17) Hillary Clinton28
18) Martin O’Malley 23
19) Bobby Jindal10
Jim Webb 10

Meanwhile, those with the biggest "pants on fire" percentage - the ones who most commonly said the craziest untrue stuff...

1) Donald Trump19
2) Ben Carson 14
3) Rick Perry 11
4) Mike Huckabee10
5) Carly Fiorina9
6) Chris Christie8
Rick Santorum8
8) Ted Cruz 7
Scott Walker7
10) Rand Paul 6
11) John Kasich5
12) Jeb Bush 3
Marco Rubio3
14) Hillary Clinton1
15) Lincoln Chaffee0
Lindsey Graham 0
Bobby Jindal0
Martin O’Malley 0
Bernie Sanders0
Jim Webb 0
How is it that Hillary Clinton is getting painted as the most dishonest person on the planet?
That's what stands out to me from this list.
It is all about likability. If we find someone likable, we tend to associate positive qualities with them - including honesty. We can forgive Bill Clinton his lies because he's charming.

But when it is Hillary, well...she's just a liar.
Bump, to restore the thread to its beginning.


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ringotuna
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CautionaryTales
Jun 3 2016, 06:07 AM
ringotuna
Jun 3 2016, 05:52 AM
CautionaryTales
Jun 3 2016, 05:46 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepmost
With good reason. :biggrin:
Yes, you don't like her.
Fair enough.
But that has nothing to do with two am's compilation.
I don't like either candidate.

And I get it. Two's summary confirms your bias, therefore it is valid and objective. :rollseyes:
Ringoism: Never underestimate the advantages of being underestimated.
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ringotuna
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CautionaryTales
Jun 3 2016, 06:10 AM
Two a.m.
Jun 2 2016, 10:16 AM
It is all about likability. If we find someone likable, we tend to associate positive qualities with them - including honesty. We can forgive Bill Clinton his lies because he's charming.

But when it is Hillary, well...she's just a liar.
Bump, to restore the thread to its beginning.

Two makes an excellent point about likability, one which you should take to heart. You like Hillary therefore your perception of her integrity is less than objective.
Ringoism: Never underestimate the advantages of being underestimated.
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grannyhawkins
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I say that big talk's worth doodly-squat
Like I said afore, politifact compilin political statements, made by politicians, while campaignin fur a job, has absolutely nuthin to do with "Honesty"!!!

Jim Webb an Jeb Bush are probably the most honest of the bunch, as fur the rest, I woodint leave my purse out unattended aroun any of em, but least of all, the pantsuit!!!

All she needs is, a personal scrap of paper or a rumor, to want to destroy you!!! She is one vindictive person an ta be vindictive you almost certainly have to be dishonest!!!
Endeavor to Persevere!!!
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