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McD's sued for "discrimination" against blind people at drive-thru
Topic Started: May 31 2016, 07:23 PM (1,220 Views)
Opinionated
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Tsalagi
Jun 1 2016, 10:11 AM
Coast2coast
May 31 2016, 09:07 PM
Hang on a moment. First is this a lawsuit for cash or access?

Now frankly I don't think a lawsuit should be the direction - this could have been handled between the individual with the entire board of directors and much more effectively but that aside, this person and other blind individuals most certainly should be able to order at a drive up if the access to the counter is closed and that should be solidified into restaurant policy along with the law.

The shift manager should have had some common sense and simple decency and permitted the transaction to take place and even assist the person if needed.

There seems to be an odd instant rejection of the issue because the word "lawsuit" comes up. There is a greater wrong here and that is what should be keyed in on.





There are safety issues for clerks doing that C2C, that's why they are in place.you also don't want some car coming around now knowing some guy is 10 feet away and you don't seen him til it's too late.

Not to mention potential for robbery exists.
What will probably end up happening is something like this. The McDonalds restaurant will end up building a "walk up window" near the main entrance that will be kind of like gas station booths where you a walk up, tell them what you want, pass the money through a sliding box, they use the sliding box to give you what you've purchased and your change, while they stay behind bullet proof glass.
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Coast2coast

Group response (hope no one feels slighted).

There is a better way than denying access to over a million people and it would be the right way. I stand by that.



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Coast2coast

Opinionated
Jun 1 2016, 10:44 AM
Tsalagi
Jun 1 2016, 10:11 AM
Coast2coast
May 31 2016, 09:07 PM
Hang on a moment. First is this a lawsuit for cash or access?

Now frankly I don't think a lawsuit should be the direction - this could have been handled between the individual with the entire board of directors and much more effectively but that aside, this person and other blind individuals most certainly should be able to order at a drive up if the access to the counter is closed and that should be solidified into restaurant policy along with the law.

The shift manager should have had some common sense and simple decency and permitted the transaction to take place and even assist the person if needed.

There seems to be an odd instant rejection of the issue because the word "lawsuit" comes up. There is a greater wrong here and that is what should be keyed in on.





There are safety issues for clerks doing that C2C, that's why they are in place.you also don't want some car coming around now knowing some guy is 10 feet away and you don't seen him til it's too late.

Not to mention potential for robbery exists.
What will probably end up happening is something like this. The McDonalds restaurant will end up building a "walk up window" near the main entrance that will be kind of like gas station booths where you a walk up, tell them what you want, pass the money through a sliding box, they use the sliding box to give you what you've purchased and your change, while they stay behind bullet proof glass.
The Judoka approach.

I like it!

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Coast2coast
Jun 1 2016, 04:12 PM
Opinionated
Jun 1 2016, 10:44 AM
Tsalagi
Jun 1 2016, 10:11 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
What will probably end up happening is something like this. The McDonalds restaurant will end up building a "walk up window" near the main entrance that will be kind of like gas station booths where you a walk up, tell them what you want, pass the money through a sliding box, they use the sliding box to give you what you've purchased and your change, while they stay behind bullet proof glass.
The Judoka approach.

I like it!

The question will be, is this actually a "reasonable" accommodation? Because once one McDonalds does it, they all pretty much have to or they open themselves to new lawsuits.

I don't think this would be cheap, either. So, what is a "reasonable" accommodation for those who are handicapped in some way and unable to drive?
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Demagogue
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Coast2coast
Jun 1 2016, 04:11 PM
Group response (hope no one feels slighted).

There is a better way than denying access to over a million people and it would be the right way. I stand by that.



This would be the tail wagging the dog again. McDonald's and other "Open Late" fast food places started leaving their drive thru open after normal hours with the intent to make some easy money using existing infrastructure and boost store profitability. Typically when these type of businesses have 24 hour drive thru service they run a skeleton crew and serve a reduced menu. They do not have the staffing to run a second check out point and service window. Furthermore, adding the physical infrastructure in order to accommodate walk up customers after lobby hours would be so expensive that it would be impossible to ever recover the investment based on the extremely minimal added business.

Many locations are not even open 24 hours anymore because it turned out that there was not enough profit to be made going all the way through the night. Essentially, if they were forced by a court to accommodate people not in cars then they would have no real choice other than to cease all non-lobby hours.
Edited by Demagogue, Jun 1 2016, 05:43 PM.
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm.
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Demagogue
Jun 1 2016, 05:41 PM
Coast2coast
Jun 1 2016, 04:11 PM
Group response (hope no one feels slighted).

There is a better way than denying access to over a million people and it would be the right way. I stand by that.



This would be the tail wagging the dog again. McDonald's and other "Open Late" fast food places started leaving their drive thru open after normal hours with the intent to make some easy money using existing infrastructure and boost store profitability. Typically when these type of businesses have 24 hour drive thru service they run a skeleton crew and serve a reduced menu. They do not have the staffing to run a second check out point and service window. Furthermore, adding the physical infrastructure in order to accommodate walk up customers after lobby hours would be so expensive that it would be impossible to ever recover the investment based on the extremely minimal added business.

Many locations are not even open 24 hours anymore because it turned out that there was not enough profit to be made going all the way through the night. Essentially, if they were forced by a court to accommodate people not in cars then they would have no real choice other than to cease all non-lobby hours.
That is of course, the alternate approach. Perhaps they only make physical changes at high volume McDonalds and those where the sales don't support it, they close when the lobby closes.

Of course, that will succeed in putting some people out of work and costing the franchise some sales, all because a really small number of handicapped people can't drive and feel "excluded".

That doesn't seem all that reasonable to me, either.
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clone
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Director @ Center for Advanced Memetic Warfare
Coast2coast
Jun 1 2016, 01:51 AM
Opinionated
May 31 2016, 10:31 PM
Coast2coast
May 31 2016, 09:07 PM
Hang on a moment. First is this a lawsuit for cash or access?

Now frankly I don't think a lawsuit should be the direction - this could have been handled between the individual with the entire board of directors and much more effectively but that aside, this person and other blind individuals most certainly should be able to order at a drive up if the access to the counter is closed and that should be solidified into restaurant policy along with the law.

The shift manager should have had some common sense and simple decency and permitted the transaction to take place and even assist the person if needed.

There seems to be an odd instant rejection of the issue because the word "lawsuit" comes up. There is a greater wrong here and that is what should be keyed in on.





Greater wrong? I guess I'm not seeing it. The lobby is closed to everyone, even sighted people. The drive through is restricted to vehicles for everyone, even sighted people. This is because it is inherently dangerous for a pedestrian to walk in the drive through lane.

So, there is no reasonable way the drive through lane can be made "blind person" accessible, without putting them in harms way. And just because you're blind, doesn't mean you have to have food made available on demand at any time or place of your choosing.

The same rules apply to people who don't have a driver's license or are unable to drive for any number of other reasons. Does the restaurant now have to keep it's lobby open all night because some people, including the blind, don't drive?

This isn't a case of discrimination unless it can be shown that the service is being provided to other people who don't drive.
What you are describing is discriminatory against a blind person. That makes the case for the plaintiff.

As for the inherent danger of the drive thru for a walk-up... that describes every intersection with or without a crosswalk.

Are u bleeping kidding me?
The moment McDonald's has to cave to this nonsense then every Mom & Pop late night joint will have to cave to this nonsense...

How the fark can a blind person find McDonald's in the first place ....it's this kind of insanity that makes me glad I spend most of my year outside of this insane place....

Liberalism is a mental disorder....
Edited by clone, Jun 1 2016, 08:12 PM.
Only liberals can choose not to go down the road to widespread, systematic violence.
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Two a.m.
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clone
Jun 1 2016, 08:12 PM
Coast2coast
Jun 1 2016, 01:51 AM
Opinionated
May 31 2016, 10:31 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
What you are describing is discriminatory against a blind person. That makes the case for the plaintiff.

As for the inherent danger of the drive thru for a walk-up... that describes every intersection with or without a crosswalk.

Are u bleeping kidding me?
The moment McDonald's has to cave to this nonsense then every Mom & Pop late night joint will have to cave to this nonsense...

How the fark can a blind person find McDonald's in the first place ....it's this kind of insanity that makes me glad I spend most of my year outside of this insane place....

Liberalism is a mental disorder....
Don't get too excited. Conservatism isn't exactly winning any awards in the sanity department these days either.

And if Perspectives is so terrible, you aren't required to come here.
"The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them." - George Orwell, 1984
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jake58

Two a.m.
Jun 1 2016, 11:10 PM
clone
Jun 1 2016, 08:12 PM
Coast2coast
Jun 1 2016, 01:51 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Are u bleeping kidding me?
The moment McDonald's has to cave to this nonsense then every Mom & Pop late night joint will have to cave to this nonsense...

How the fark can a blind person find McDonald's in the first place ....it's this kind of insanity that makes me glad I spend most of my year outside of this insane place....

Liberalism is a mental disorder....
Don't get too excited. Conservatism isn't exactly winning any awards in the sanity department these days either.

And if Perspectives is so terrible, you aren't required to come here.
I believe he is referring to the US and he's probably outside of it for tax reasons
That which can be asserted without evidence; can be dismissed without evidence- Christopher Hitchens
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Coast2coast

The level of compassion in here has been to give it a rating been measured at underwhelming. My guess is when wheelchair access was considered as law it met with this exact resistance.

This isn't a tough accommodation one way or the other. And although some find such considerations to be a mental disorder I will maintain that its the right thing to do and regardless of the solution; "tough to bad, you're blind" is not the answer.
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Right-Wing
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Hmm...is it discriminatory for State Governements to refuse to issue drivers licenses to blind people?
Donald Trump is Barack Obama's President!
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Coast2coast

Right-Wing
Jun 2 2016, 12:10 AM
Hmm...is it discriminatory for State Governements to refuse to issue drivers licenses to blind people?
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. :rollseyes:

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Two a.m.
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Coast2coast
Jun 2 2016, 12:06 AM
The level of compassion in here has been to give it a rating been measured at underwhelming. My guess is when wheelchair access was considered as law it met with this exact resistance.

This isn't a tough accommodation one way or the other. And although some find such considerations to be a mental disorder I will maintain that its the right thing to do and regardless of the solution; "tough to bad, you're blind" is not the answer.
But compassion about what exactly? I can understand mandatory wheelchair ramps which have allowed people with disabilities to access restaurants, hotels and public facilities of all kinds. I can understand curb cuts that make it safe for those on wheels to go from sidewalk to street at every corner. These are necessary (or at least important) things in daily life. Where things are vital, then accommodations can be made - perhaps even mandated.

Yet, what are we talking about here? The right to a cheeseburger after 10 p.m.? The right to misuse a drive-thru because you can't get a ride somewhere?

This isn't a wrong. This isn't discrimination. This is merely someone manifesting our new national sport of professional victimhood. You can get a ride or you can accept that the dining area is closed until tomorrow morning. That's not abandoning a fight for justice. That's merely growing up and being an adult which is what this patron should do rather than file a lawsuit and throw around claims of discrimination because french fries aren't available to him 24 hours a day on demand.

Increasingly, accommodation is being treated as though it were a sacred right to be granted in any and all situations regardless of context rather than what it really is - a special concession made in certain rare instances where it impacts people's lives significantly.
Edited by Two a.m., Jun 2 2016, 01:07 AM.
"The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them." - George Orwell, 1984
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Mr. Tik
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I'm inclined to agree with 2am here.
You may be a conservative republican..if you are pro life until you get your mistress knocked up
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Coast2coast

I stand by everything I wrote and I hope its corrected.

Its just the right thing to do.





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Coast2coast
Jun 2 2016, 12:06 AM
The level of compassion in here has been to give it a rating been measured at underwhelming. My guess is when wheelchair access was considered as law it met with this exact resistance.

This isn't a tough accommodation one way or the other. And although some find such considerations to be a mental disorder I will maintain that its the right thing to do and regardless of the solution; "tough to bad, you're blind" is not the answer.
Wheel chair access is considered the law, it falls under the same ADA "reasonable accommodation" category.

And more than one business has been forced to go out of business because the "reasonable accommodation" they were being expected to provide cost more than they could afford and stay financially viable.
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Demagogue
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Coast2coast
Jun 2 2016, 12:06 AM
The level of compassion in here has been to give it a rating been measured at underwhelming. My guess is when wheelchair access was considered as law it met with this exact resistance.

This isn't a tough accommodation one way or the other. And although some find such considerations to be a mental disorder I will maintain that its the right thing to do and regardless of the solution; "tough to bad, you're blind" is not the answer.
Wheelchair access is apples to oranges when compared to this.

Every business had to build in wheelchair access, every business had to put in hand rails in bathrooms etc. In this case you would only be punishing businesses that chose to keep their drive thru open after lobby hours.

You suggest that it would not be a costly accommodation but in fact it would be thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars to add a walk up window at each location. In addition to the structural costs you would add personnel costs due to having to staff a second check out point and pass though window. The insurance for the site would probably increase due to the increased liability of allowing walk up customers at night.

Frankly, with the exception of certain locations that would have to be doing massive 12AM to 5AM business I can not see any path to profitability here so the most likely result of a ruling for the blind guy here would be a closure of 90% or more of the stores during non-lobby hours.

I am aware of some McDonald's locations where the entire store is 24hours. These are rare and usually only exist in large cities, airports and the like. An example of this would be in the Peachtree Rd, Atlanta GA location.

Other than locations such as that one in ATL and some in large hospitals and things most locations close their lobby but keep the drive thru open more as a courtesy to their customers rather than due to any massive profits being made.
Edited by Demagogue, Jun 2 2016, 08:54 AM.
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would do them harm.
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Coast2coast

Demagogue
Jun 2 2016, 08:51 AM
Coast2coast
Jun 2 2016, 12:06 AM
The level of compassion in here has been to give it a rating been measured at underwhelming. My guess is when wheelchair access was considered as law it met with this exact resistance.

This isn't a tough accommodation one way or the other. And although some find such considerations to be a mental disorder I will maintain that its the right thing to do and regardless of the solution; "tough to bad, you're blind" is not the answer.
Wheelchair access is apples to oranges when compared to this.

Every business had to build in wheelchair access, every business had to put in hand rails in bathrooms etc. In this case you would only be punishing businesses that chose to keep their drive thru open after lobby hours.

You suggest that it would not be a costly accommodation but in fact it would be thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars to add a walk up window at each location. In addition to the structural costs you would add personnel costs due to having to staff a second check out point and pass though window. The insurance for the site would probably increase due to the increased liability of allowing walk up customers at night.

Frankly, with the exception of certain locations that would have to be doing massive 12AM to 5AM business I can not see any path to profitability here so the most likely result of a ruling for the blind guy here would be a closure of 90% or more of the stores during non-lobby hours.

I am aware of some McDonald's locations where the entire store is 24hours. These are rare and usually only exist in large cities, airports and the like. An example of this would be in the Peachtree Rd, Atlanta GA location.

Other than locations such as that one in ATL and some in large hospitals and things most locations close their lobby but keep the drive thru open more as a courtesy to their customers rather than due to any massive profits being made.
You don't need extra staff for a window that is simply an access point for a blind or otherwise handicapped 'walk-up'. If it turns out you do then it's because there is enough business to justify it.

Why would a walk up window increase the insurance over a walk up counter. Both operate at some point at night.


I stand firm that a solution is easier and more decent then just turning your business's back on select individuals.

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Coast2coast

Opinionated
Jun 2 2016, 07:21 AM
Coast2coast
Jun 2 2016, 12:06 AM
The level of compassion in here has been to give it a rating been measured at underwhelming. My guess is when wheelchair access was considered as law it met with this exact resistance.

This isn't a tough accommodation one way or the other. And although some find such considerations to be a mental disorder I will maintain that its the right thing to do and regardless of the solution; "tough to bad, you're blind" is not the answer.
Wheel chair access is considered the law, it falls under the same ADA "reasonable accommodation" category.

And more than one business has been forced to go out of business because the "reasonable accommodation" they were being expected to provide cost more than they could afford and stay financially viable.
It wasn't always the law.

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edro14
Jun 1 2016, 10:16 AM
Drunk drivers at the drive thru window visiting MCD's late at night should have to pass a sobriety test before they are allowed to order.
Personal experience?
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