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Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder
Topic Started: Jun 12 2016, 11:13 PM (1,353 Views)
Mr. Tik
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Drudge X
Jun 14 2016, 01:04 AM
Adolph Hipster
Jun 13 2016, 11:26 PM
Drudge X
Jun 13 2016, 09:49 PM
All I hear from the left so far is the private sector's fault.
Drudgex LOVES the private sector...he gets to post here all day while on clock at the business he works for. :lol:
Multi-tasking comrade. I use that excuse with my boss lots of time. He always gave me the roll eyes look though.
Goldbricking on the company dime..no wonder you love the private sector :lol:
You may be a conservative republican..if you are pro life until you get your mistress knocked up
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Drudge X
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Adolph Hipster
Jun 14 2016, 01:35 AM
Drudge X
Jun 14 2016, 01:04 AM
Adolph Hipster
Jun 13 2016, 11:26 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepDrudgex LOVES the private sector...he gets to post here all day while on clock at the business he works for. :lol:
Multi-tasking comrade. I use that excuse with my boss lots of time. He always gave me the roll eyes look though.
Goldbricking on the company dime..no wonder you love the private sector :lol:
Look on the bright side, I contribute measurable metrics to the company's bottom line and always come out ahead. Government workers, don't do squat. I know this because I used to for the state's judicial branch.
Kate Steinle was separated from her family permanently but leftists didn't seem to mind.
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lucash
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#NeverTrump
Right-Wing
Jun 13 2016, 11:35 PM
lucash
Jun 13 2016, 11:25 PM
Right-Wing
Jun 13 2016, 10:49 PM
The guy with a chainsaw is the type of person our goverment is allowing into our country unabated Tik and you Lucash are trying point the finger at businesses...wtf is wrong with you two!!
You do realize that there can be more than one type of bad guy, right? Just because one doesn't chop off heads doesn't mean whatever problems said 'bad guy' may cause is any less problematic or harmful. So yeah, terrorists are obviously bad, but so are unethical/immoral/inhumane (etc) businesses. Why is it one is bad, but the just fine, in your eyes?
Are you seriously trying to equate business owners that hire cheap labor to terrorists with chainsaws? Seriously? :oyvey



Given you're setting up a straw man, lets try again.

We're talking about morality and ethics, yes? A business will, in certain times, go beyond normally accepted boundaries of laws, regulations, and so on all in order to 'survive'. You laugh at it, but is it not a businesses' ONLY priority to succeed and survive? To continue to profit, allocate resources, grow, etc. all in effort to fatten their 'suits' and/or share holders wallets?

You seem to assume that a business is some benign being - morally and ethically just simply because it is 'doing its job'. That government is despicable because it is doing its job (governing, albeit haphazardly). It seems you're perfectly wiling to accept that a government (that is, a chaotic collage of wills and interests) would do anything in its power to retain power, to survive. Yet...you don't appear to be willing to accept the same drive to survive for a business, why?

Yes, thankfully business owners don't appear to show any inclination to chop heads off. However, given the right circumstances they too could be faced with an ethical/moral dilemma. Could it be chopping someones head off or such? Well I doubt it, but again, you have to realize we're dealing with partly a hypothetical situation. Especially since there is no 'single big govt entity' out to get anyone as you're trying to compare it to.

Anyways, businesses - more so the higher ups - make ethical decisions all the time. Do you or don't you embezzle millions of dollars? Do you or don't you move your company overseas away from a country you claimed would always be number one for your country? Do you or don't you pay people in said new country a piss poor wage just so you can save money and/or make more of a profit?

A business, given the right circumstances, can be an ethical and moral entity. An owner, yes, can be a complete and utter asshole. Look at William Randolph Hearst. He was an effective businessman, but a jerk.

That is what I'm talking about. That businesses ethics can happen. And theoretically a business can be come "evil" or unethical/immoral based on the decisions made. Frankly, the only reason none have is because (thank goodness) the owners actually have ethics and such. Well, unless you're Enron.


"...a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is detrimental...having lost the will..to demand...good..." - Rachel Carson
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Mystique
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toL1tXrLA1c
JILL STEIN OR BUST 2016
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Right-Wing
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Adolph Hipster
Jun 14 2016, 01:34 AM
Right-Wing
Jun 14 2016, 01:27 AM
Adolph Hipster
Jun 14 2016, 01:00 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepWhat are you babbling about?
I support immigration laws.

I am only calling you out on your apologetic when it comes to business..don't conflate this into something that it is not.
So..businesses doing "what they are supposed to" is a way of absolving business of any moral hazards?
Like bribing officials, making campaign contributions/lobbying so their interest are promoted or to maintain their market share

For every politician taking a bribe..there is a business interest paying it..but that's what they are supposed to do
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr/05/opinion/la-oe-kinsley-column-microsoft-20110405Like you, Bill Gates is blaming the gubmint for the moral failings of business.

"the gubmint made me do it!!!!!"
What if companies need low wage immigrants to survive?nope..I am turning your argument in on itself.
And it might have worked if big business, especially big tech businesses were barely making a living...but that's not the case...they're making record profits while replacing American tech engineers with low cost Indian H1B Visa holders. Same goes for big agribusinesses and migrant labor. Disney etc...

Do you think Disney needs cheap labor to survive?

How do you think the rich are widening the gap between themselves and the rest of us so rapidly? They're exporting the jobs that can be exported, and for the jobs that can't be exported they're importing cheap labor as much as the law will allow....all while developing robots to do the rest...and our government...you know...the one that's supposed to be looking out for us is enabling all of it, even promoting some of it. Granted I don't think the government can do much about outsourcing and automation but it sure as hell can protect jobs that cannot be exported or automated from being taken by foreigners...legal or otherwise.

You support unions Tik, how is what I'm asking for any different than a Union Shop protecting jobs for its own?

Just so you know why I feel this way, I worked on a construction crew in college and I saw the entire crew of hard working Citizens get replaced with illegal alien workers (at 1/2 the price). Predictably, the owner of the company went from having one nice home to having two gigantic palaces...one on the lake and the other on the ocean. Luckily I was in college and had another career ahead of me...some of the guys I worked with however are still having a hard time piecing their lives back together.

I believe in controlled immigration Tik...not a wide open door that only leads to higher unemployment, wage decline, non-assimilation and balkanization.
I am not arguing against your position on immigration..I am addressing your pro business bias in terms of ethics and morality.
What do ethics and morality have to do with this discussion? I'm talking about the laws of the land and the enforcement thereof...
Donald Trump is Barack Obama's President!
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Right-Wing
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lucash
Jun 14 2016, 03:54 AM
Right-Wing
Jun 13 2016, 11:35 PM
lucash
Jun 13 2016, 11:25 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Are you seriously trying to equate business owners that hire cheap labor to terrorists with chainsaws? Seriously? :oyvey



Given you're setting up a straw man, lets try again.

We're talking about morality and ethics, yes? A business will, in certain times, go beyond normally accepted boundaries of laws, regulations, and so on all in order to 'survive'. You laugh at it, but is it not a businesses' ONLY priority to succeed and survive? To continue to profit, allocate resources, grow, etc. all in effort to fatten their 'suits' and/or share holders wallets?

You seem to assume that a business is some benign being - morally and ethically just simply because it is 'doing its job'. That government is despicable because it is doing its job (governing, albeit haphazardly). It seems you're perfectly wiling to accept that a government (that is, a chaotic collage of wills and interests) would do anything in its power to retain power, to survive. Yet...you don't appear to be willing to accept the same drive to survive for a business, why?

Yes, thankfully business owners don't appear to show any inclination to chop heads off. However, given the right circumstances they too could be faced with an ethical/moral dilemma. Could it be chopping someones head off or such? Well I doubt it, but again, you have to realize we're dealing with partly a hypothetical situation. Especially since there is no 'single big govt entity' out to get anyone as you're trying to compare it to.

Anyways, businesses - more so the higher ups - make ethical decisions all the time. Do you or don't you embezzle millions of dollars? Do you or don't you move your company overseas away from a country you claimed would always be number one for your country? Do you or don't you pay people in said new country a piss poor wage just so you can save money and/or make more of a profit?

A business, given the right circumstances, can be an ethical and moral entity. An owner, yes, can be a complete and utter asshole. Look at William Randolph Hearst. He was an effective businessman, but a jerk.

That is what I'm talking about. That businesses ethics can happen. And theoretically a business can be come "evil" or unethical/immoral based on the decisions made. Frankly, the only reason none have is because (thank goodness) the owners actually have ethics and such. Well, unless you're Enron.


No we're not talking about ethics and morality...does that clear things up for you?
Donald Trump is Barack Obama's President!
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Mr. Tik
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Right-Wing
Jun 14 2016, 06:09 PM
Adolph Hipster
Jun 14 2016, 01:34 AM
Right-Wing
Jun 14 2016, 01:27 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepWhat are you babbling about?
I support immigration laws.

I am only calling you out on your apologetic when it comes to business..don't conflate this into something that it is not.
So..businesses doing "what they are supposed to" is a way of absolving business of any moral hazards?
Like bribing officials, making campaign contributions/lobbying so their interest are promoted or to maintain their market share

For every politician taking a bribe..there is a business interest paying it..but that's what they are supposed to do
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr/05/opinion/la-oe-kinsley-column-microsoft-20110405Like you, Bill Gates is blaming the gubmint for the moral failings of business.

"the gubmint made me do it!!!!!"
What if companies need low wage immigrants to survive?nope..I am turning your argument in on itself.
I am not arguing against your position on immigration..I am addressing your pro business bias in terms of ethics and morality.
What do ethics and morality have to do with this discussion? I'm talking about the laws of the land and the enforcement thereof...
Ethics and morality are the basis for laws, no?
You may be a conservative republican..if you are pro life until you get your mistress knocked up
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Right-Wing
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Adolph Hipster
Jun 14 2016, 06:10 PM
Right-Wing
Jun 14 2016, 06:09 PM
Adolph Hipster
Jun 14 2016, 01:34 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepWhat are you babbling about?
I support immigration laws.

I am only calling you out on your apologetic when it comes to business..don't conflate this into something that it is not.
So..businesses doing "what they are supposed to" is a way of absolving business of any moral hazards?
Like bribing officials, making campaign contributions/lobbying so their interest are promoted or to maintain their market share

For every politician taking a bribe..there is a business interest paying it..but that's what they are supposed to do
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr/05/opinion/la-oe-kinsley-column-microsoft-20110405Like you, Bill Gates is blaming the gubmint for the moral failings of business.

"the gubmint made me do it!!!!!"
What if companies need low wage immigrants to survive?nope..I am turning your argument in on itself.I am not arguing against your position on immigration..I am addressing your pro business bias in terms of ethics and morality.
What do ethics and morality have to do with this discussion? I'm talking about the laws of the land and the enforcement thereof...
Ethics and morality are the basis for laws, no?
No...
Donald Trump is Barack Obama's President!
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Robertr2000
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:popcorn:
"if that **** wins we'll all hang from nooses"
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Mr. Tik
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dp
Edited by Mr. Tik, Jun 14 2016, 06:27 PM.
You may be a conservative republican..if you are pro life until you get your mistress knocked up
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Mr. Tik
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Right-Wing
Jun 14 2016, 06:10 PM
Adolph Hipster
Jun 14 2016, 06:10 PM
Ethics and morality are the basis for laws, no?
No...
Then what is the basis of law?
You may be a conservative republican..if you are pro life until you get your mistress knocked up
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Right-Wing
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Adolph Hipster
Jun 14 2016, 06:23 PM
Right-Wing
Jun 14 2016, 06:10 PM
Ethics and morality are the basis for laws, no?[/b]
No...
than what is law based on if not ethics?[/quote]

Off topic...

Let's talk about our government assisting the ultra wealthy in this country by importing cheap labor for them at our expense. Your thoughts?
Edited by Right-Wing, Jun 14 2016, 06:27 PM.
Donald Trump is Barack Obama's President!
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Mr. Tik
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Right-Wing
Jun 14 2016, 06:27 PM
Adolph Hipster
Jun 14 2016, 06:23 PM
Right-Wing
Jun 14 2016, 06:10 PM
Ethics and morality are the basis for laws, no?[/b]
No...
than what is law based on if not ethics?
Off topic...

Let's talk about our government assisting the ultra wealthy in this country by importing cheap labor for them. Your thoughts?[/quote]Would you say its unethical for a businessman to become wealthy on cheap labor..and depriving americans of work?
You may be a conservative republican..if you are pro life until you get your mistress knocked up
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Mr. Tik
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Right-Wing
Jun 14 2016, 06:27 PM
Off topic...

Let's talk about our government assisting the ultra wealthy in this country by importing cheap labor for them. Your thoughts?
Would you say its unethical for a businessman to become wealthy on cheap labor..and depriving americans of work?
You may be a conservative republican..if you are pro life until you get your mistress knocked up
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Right-Wing
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Adolph Hipster
Jun 14 2016, 06:29 PM
Right-Wing
Jun 14 2016, 06:27 PM
Off topic...

Let's talk about our government assisting the ultra wealthy in this country by importing cheap labor for them. Your thoughts?
Would you say its unethical for a businessman to become wealthy on cheap labor..and depriving americans of work?
No...a businesses mandate is to create profit for its shareholders, not provide jobs.

Do you think it is unethical for a government whose mandate is to protect the lives and welfare of all of its citizens is unethical if it actively enhances the welfare of a distinct minority at the expense of the vast majority?
Donald Trump is Barack Obama's President!
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Right-Wing
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Apologies...the above sentence was pretty terrible...improved one below.

Do you think it's unethical for a government (whose mandate is to protect the lives and welfare of all of its citizens) to actively promote and enhance the welfare of a distinct minority at the expense of the vast majority?
Donald Trump is Barack Obama's President!
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Drudge X
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Adolph Hipster
Jun 14 2016, 06:29 PM
Right-Wing
Jun 14 2016, 06:27 PM
Off topic...

Let's talk about our government assisting the ultra wealthy in this country by importing cheap labor for them. Your thoughts?
Would you say its unethical for a businessman to become wealthy on cheap labor..and depriving americans of work?
Without the government protecting this businessman, he would face a lynch mob.

I love the convenient store scene in Falling Down. Poor Mr. Lee.
Kate Steinle was separated from her family permanently but leftists didn't seem to mind.
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Mr. Tik
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Right-Wing
Jun 14 2016, 07:11 PM
Apologies...the above sentence was pretty terrible...improved one below.

Do you think it's unethical for a government (whose mandate is to protect the lives and welfare of all of its citizens) to actively promote and enhance the welfare of a distinct minority at the expense of the vast majority?
No

Do you think that profit trumps ethics?
You may be a conservative republican..if you are pro life until you get your mistress knocked up
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lucash
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#NeverTrump
Right-Wing
Jun 14 2016, 06:10 PM
lucash
Jun 14 2016, 03:54 AM
Right-Wing
Jun 13 2016, 11:35 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Given you're setting up a straw man, lets try again.

We're talking about morality and ethics, yes? A business will, in certain times, go beyond normally accepted boundaries of laws, regulations, and so on all in order to 'survive'. You laugh at it, but is it not a businesses' ONLY priority to succeed and survive? To continue to profit, allocate resources, grow, etc. all in effort to fatten their 'suits' and/or share holders wallets?

You seem to assume that a business is some benign being - morally and ethically just simply because it is 'doing its job'. That government is despicable because it is doing its job (governing, albeit haphazardly). It seems you're perfectly wiling to accept that a government (that is, a chaotic collage of wills and interests) would do anything in its power to retain power, to survive. Yet...you don't appear to be willing to accept the same drive to survive for a business, why?

Yes, thankfully business owners don't appear to show any inclination to chop heads off. However, given the right circumstances they too could be faced with an ethical/moral dilemma. Could it be chopping someones head off or such? Well I doubt it, but again, you have to realize we're dealing with partly a hypothetical situation. Especially since there is no 'single big govt entity' out to get anyone as you're trying to compare it to.

Anyways, businesses - more so the higher ups - make ethical decisions all the time. Do you or don't you embezzle millions of dollars? Do you or don't you move your company overseas away from a country you claimed would always be number one for your country? Do you or don't you pay people in said new country a piss poor wage just so you can save money and/or make more of a profit?

A business, given the right circumstances, can be an ethical and moral entity. An owner, yes, can be a complete and utter asshole. Look at William Randolph Hearst. He was an effective businessman, but a jerk.

That is what I'm talking about. That businesses ethics can happen. And theoretically a business can be come "evil" or unethical/immoral based on the decisions made. Frankly, the only reason none have is because (thank goodness) the owners actually have ethics and such. Well, unless you're Enron.


No we're not talking about ethics and morality...does that clear things up for you?
So laws have no basis in ethics and morality?

Lovely.... :rollseyes:
"...a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is detrimental...having lost the will..to demand...good..." - Rachel Carson
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Right-Wing
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Adolph Hipster
Jun 14 2016, 07:42 PM
Right-Wing
Jun 14 2016, 07:11 PM
Apologies...the above sentence was pretty terrible...improved one below.

Do you think it's unethical for a government (whose mandate is to protect the lives and welfare of all of its citizens) to actively promote and enhance the welfare of a distinct minority at the expense of the vast majority?
No

Do you think that profit trumps ethics?
Ok, if you feel government has no responsibility to the majority of its citizens then I guess we have nothing further to discuss.
Donald Trump is Barack Obama's President!
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