|
EU referendum results live: Brexit most likely outcome says leading pollster
|
|
Topic Started: Jun 23 2016, 09:09 PM (12,009 Views)
|
|
Robert Stout
|
Dec 11 2016, 05:07 PM
Post #461
|
|
- Posts:
- 27,190
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #112
- Joined:
- Mar 22, 2016
|
The EU reaction has caused many more Brits to support Brexit and other countries to consider trying it....A "United Europe" led by Germany is an old idea....Its political supporters are facing stiff resistance, even in Germany...The big banks and multinational corporations are losing their stranglehold on Europeans................
|
|
Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid
|
| |
|
jar
|
Dec 16 2016, 03:07 PM
Post #462
|
|
Previously 'jr' (before the site crash)
- Posts:
- 373
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #36
- Joined:
- Mar 18, 2016
|
[quote/]You can of course be opposed to Brexit as you wish, but to do it on the grounds you have is to foolishly accept europhile propaganda in my opinion. You might have a point on Trump, but it is sensible to be a friend of a powerful man who seems to support Brexit. Your and the EU's enemies are not necessarily mine or Brexit Britain's.
I’ve never suggested that my 'kind of people should be in control of what humanity is all about 'once again'" at all, nor have they ever been. And what era are you referring to? When do you think my 'kind of people’ were in control’?
And as for who understands more of human history ... it's not a competition and who is to say anyway?
I think you might be entirely missing the point of Brexit. I’ll try to simplify it for you:
[.] It’s not that Brexiters are better or worse than anyone else.
- It’s that post-Brexit, when politicians Brexiters or otherwise, fail in in an independent Britain there is a recognised, effective way of removing them and, crucially, their policies.
- Pre-Brexit, we can remove British politicians but we are still stuck with whatever policies are decided on the European stage and a new government must still apply them. (The best UK voters can hope for is better application of EU policies.)
- The EU’s acquis communautaire, it’s ‘body of law', is huge and almost all of it applies to the UK whether it's in our interests or not. See the European Commission’s website for a sense of its scope.
[/quote]
I've seen some late poll results that currently about 65% of British would vote for staying in the EU, as the true price of the hard Brexit is becoming a reality rather than the so called 'soft Brexit'.
For example, Britain paid last year the medical expenses of the British people to Spain worth 280M euros while the Spanish government paid altogether only about 150,000 euros of the Spanish people's medical expenses to Britain. These figures also include the tourists requiring medical care. Of course, some 300,000 Brits are living in Spain, out of which about a third are over 65 years old. About 1 million Brits are living in EU countries. Much of these 1 million people are now scared that they will most probably lose the advantages what the EU has brought, including the agreements on medical expenses, which means that they will need to apply for the citizenship of the country they are living in or they are dependent on the country policy for non-EU country citizens.
Now, maybe you don't give a f**k what happens to those people but I think you will need to pay more taxes when those people are returning to Britain because of this simple reason.
This is just one very simple but very basic question of what Brexit means in your personal financial life as well, increasing the taxes you need to pay for.
Now, all you talk about is this "independent Britain". In the real world, how "independent" you will be as you will need to have basically thousands of agreements with different countries how Britain does its daily business including all the British businesses and life of the British people who travel and/or live in outsite UK borders?
I'm still asking you: Why is this very very strict view of what an independent nation (coming from the realities of us human beings, especially European ones as we discovered the very concept of modern nationalism) is so important in your life that it is basically comparable to a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrilege ?
Do you think you are representing a democracy when the values you are representing of, are very close to that of nationalism and which brought to the entire world of human history ... what again? Uh? Please, try to make some sense when talking about isms that you need to think way beyound your personal life, to the masses of people and how those masses of people can react to an ism and those values thereof. Understanding something of the history and some basic understanding of human psychology helps in this matter, you know...
Edited by jar, Dec 16 2016, 03:17 PM.
|
|
|
| |
|
Robert Stout
|
Dec 17 2016, 12:37 AM
Post #463
|
|
- Posts:
- 27,190
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #112
- Joined:
- Mar 22, 2016
|
- jar
- Dec 16 2016, 03:07 PM
[quote/]You can of course be opposed to Brexit as you wish, but to do it on the grounds you have is to foolishly accept europhile propaganda in my opinion. You might have a point on Trump, but it is sensible to be a friend of a powerful man who seems to support Brexit. Your and the EU's enemies are not necessarily mine or Brexit Britain's. I’ve never suggested that my 'kind of people should be in control of what humanity is all about 'once again'" at all, nor have they ever been. And what era are you referring to? When do you think my 'kind of people’ were in control’? And as for who understands more of human history ... it's not a competition and who is to say anyway? I think you might be entirely missing the point of Brexit. I’ll try to simplify it for you: [.] It’s not that Brexiters are better or worse than anyone else.
- It’s that post-Brexit, when politicians Brexiters or otherwise, fail in in an independent Britain there is a recognised, effective way of removing them and, crucially, their policies.
- Pre-Brexit, we can remove British politicians but we are still stuck with whatever policies are decided on the European stage and a new government must still apply them. (The best UK voters can hope for is better application of EU policies.)
- The EU’s acquis communautaire, it’s ‘body of law', is huge and almost all of it applies to the UK whether it's in our interests or not. See the European Commission’s website for a sense of its scope.
I've seen some late poll results that currently about 65% of British would vote for staying in the EU, as the true price of the hard Brexit is becoming a reality rather than the so called 'soft Brexit'.
For example, Britain paid last year the medical expenses of the British people to Spain worth 280M euros while the Spanish government paid altogether only about 150,000 euros of the Spanish people's medical expenses to Britain. These figures also include the tourists requiring medical care. Of course, some 300,000 Brits are living in Spain, out of which about a third are over 65 years old. About 1 million Brits are living in EU countries. Much of these 1 million people are now scared that they will most probably lose the advantages what the EU has brought, including the agreements on medical expenses, which means that they will need to apply for the citizenship of the country they are living in or they are dependent on the country policy for non-EU country citizens.
Now, maybe you don't give a f**k what happens to those people but I think you will need to pay more taxes when those people are returning to Britain because of this simple reason.
This is just one very simple but very basic question of what Brexit means in your personal financial life as well, increasing the taxes you need to pay for.
Now, all you talk about is this "independent Britain". In the real world, how "independent" you will be as you will need to have basically thousands of agreements with different countries how Britain does its daily business including all the British businesses and life of the British people who travel and/or live in outsite UK borders?
I'm still asking you: Why is this very very strict view of what an independent nation (coming from the realities of us human beings, especially European ones as we discovered the very concept of modern nationalism) is so important in your life that it is basically comparable to a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrilege ?
Do you think you are representing a democracy when the values you are representing of, are very close to that of nationalism and which brought to the entire world of human history ... what again? Uh? Please, try to make some sense when talking about isms that you need to think way beyound your personal life, to the masses of people and how those masses of people can react to an ism and those values thereof. Understanding something of the history and some basic understanding of human psychology helps in this matter, you know...
[/quote]
Speaking of nationalism, if Finland cancelled the Winter War and blissfully became part of the Soviet Union, would they be as happy as if Brits refused Brexit ???............
|
|
Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid
|
| |
|
Nan Tucks Ghost
|
Dec 19 2016, 12:34 PM
Post #464
|
|
- Posts:
- 129
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #152
- Joined:
- Apr 4, 2016
|
- jar
- Dec 16 2016, 03:07 PM
- Quote:
-
You can of course be opposed to Brexit as you wish, but to do it on the grounds you have is to foolishly accept europhile propaganda in my opinion. You might have a point on Trump, but it is sensible to be a friend of a powerful man who seems to support Brexit. Your and the EU's enemies are not necessarily mine or Brexit Britain's. I’ve never suggested that my 'kind of people should be in control of what humanity is all about 'once again'" at all, nor have they ever been. And what era are you referring to? When do you think my 'kind of people’ were in control’? And as for who understands more of human history ... it's not a competition and who is to say anyway? I think you might be entirely missing the point of Brexit. I’ll try to simplify it for you: [.] It’s not that Brexiters are better or worse than anyone else.
- It’s that post-Brexit, when politicians Brexiters or otherwise, fail in in an independent Britain there is a recognised, effective way of removing them and, crucially, their policies.
- Pre-Brexit, we can remove British politicians but we are still stuck with whatever policies are decided on the European stage and a new government must still apply them. (The best UK voters can hope for is better application of EU policies.)
- The EU’s acquis communautaire, it’s ‘body of law', is huge and almost all of it applies to the UK whether it's in our interests or not. See the European Commission’s website for a sense of its scope.
I've seen some late poll results that currently about 65% of British would vote for staying in the EU, as the true price of the hard Brexit is becoming a reality rather than the so called 'soft Brexit'. For example, Britain paid last year the medical expenses of the British people to Spain worth 280M euros while the Spanish government paid altogether only about 150,000 euros of the Spanish people's medical expenses to Britain. These figures also include the tourists requiring medical care. Of course, some 300,000 Brits are living in Spain, out of which about a third are over 65 years old. About 1 million Brits are living in EU countries. Much of these 1 million people are now scared that they will most probably lose the advantages what the EU has brought, including the agreements on medical expenses, which means that they will need to apply for the citizenship of the country they are living in or they are dependent on the country policy for non-EU country citizens. Now, maybe you don't give a f**k what happens to those people but I think you will need to pay more taxes when those people are returning to Britain because of this simple reason. This is just one very simple but very basic question of what Brexit means in your personal financial life as well, increasing the taxes you need to pay for. Now, all you talk about is this "independent Britain". In the real world, how "independent" you will be as you will need to have basically thousands of agreements with different countries how Britain does its daily business including all the British businesses and life of the British people who travel and/or live in outsite UK borders? I'm still asking you: Why is this very very strict view of what an independent nation (coming from the realities of us human beings, especially European ones as we discovered the very concept of modern nationalism) is so important in your life that it is basically comparable to a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrilege ? Do you think you are representing a democracy when the values you are representing of, are very close to that of nationalism and which brought to the entire world of human history ... what again? Uh? Please, try to make some sense when talking about isms that you need to think way beyound your personal life, to the masses of people and how those masses of people can react to an ism and those values thereof. Understanding something of the history and some basic understanding of human psychology helps in this matter, you know... No doubt you have seen polls that say that. You probably also saw all the polls that said the UK would vote to remain in the EU. They were wrong. I wouldn’t get your hopes raised on polls, Jar. They say whatever the people commissioning them want them to say.
Is pointing out how much the UK pays for UK citizens in Spain v how much the Spain pays for Spanish citizens in the UK supposed to be an argument for remaining in the EU? If it is, I’m not sure how! And anyone who is scared about their status should perhaps look to the European Commission for reassurance. We know the British government will guarantee the rights and status of other EU citizens in the UK if the EU will guarantee the rights of British citizens in the EU. Brexiters have said that this should happen all along. Instead of course, the EU would like to see EU citizens in the UK under the jurisdiction of EU law. Like that’s going to happen. In the UK everyone will be equal before UK law.
It’s not all I talk about at all. You have not the faintest idea what other things I talk about. It is however what we have chosen to talk about, probably because we are so diametrically opposed on this subject. It is the subject of this thread too but if you don’t want to talk about it, stop posting here. I will try to live with the disappointment.
The UK will be as independent as any other independent country, ie one that makes its own laws and reacts to what it cannot control as it sees fits. I want to live in a democracy, and the EU does not qualify as one. The UK will negotiate whatever agreements are necessary, just like any other independent country does. Stop trying to play the fear card. It’s already failed. Any issues will be negotiated by the parties involved, but if no agreement can be reached the deal will fall through as with any international agreement.
I want to live in a democracy. The EU is not a democracy. And a country is either independent or it’s not. There is no half way. And I’m not trying to represent anything. My views are my own, though I’m in agreement with most of the UK electorate on the subject of the EU.
Do you think you are on the side of democracy as an EU supporter? Just what is it that you think you understand of human psychology that I don’t? Doesn’t your knowledge of human psychology tell you that humans can disagree profoundly about all kinds of things and still not be deficient in any way?
|
|
|
| |
|
Robert Stout
|
Dec 20 2016, 03:34 AM
Post #465
|
|
- Posts:
- 27,190
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #112
- Joined:
- Mar 22, 2016
|
Perhaps Jar likes faceless EU bureaucrats telling him how to live his life...He may have enjoyed living in Stalin's Russia...His claim of democracy in the EU is a bit of a stretch.................
|
|
Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid
|
| |
|
jar
|
Dec 23 2016, 03:13 PM
Post #466
|
|
Previously 'jr' (before the site crash)
- Posts:
- 373
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #36
- Joined:
- Mar 18, 2016
|
https://www.waterstones.com/book/five-on-brexit-island/bruno-vincent/9781786483843 
|
|
|
| |
|
jar
|
Dec 23 2016, 04:03 PM
Post #467
|
|
Previously 'jr' (before the site crash)
- Posts:
- 373
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #36
- Joined:
- Mar 18, 2016
|
- Nan Tucks Ghost
- Dec 19 2016, 12:34 PM
- jar
- Dec 16 2016, 03:07 PM
- Quote:
-
You can of course be opposed to Brexit as you wish, but to do it on the grounds you have is to foolishly accept europhile propaganda in my opinion. You might have a point on Trump, but it is sensible to be a friend of a powerful man who seems to support Brexit. Your and the EU's enemies are not necessarily mine or Brexit Britain's. I’ve never suggested that my 'kind of people should be in control of what humanity is all about 'once again'" at all, nor have they ever been. And what era are you referring to? When do you think my 'kind of people’ were in control’? And as for who understands more of human history ... it's not a competition and who is to say anyway? I think you might be entirely missing the point of Brexit. I’ll try to simplify it for you: [.] It’s not that Brexiters are better or worse than anyone else.
- It’s that post-Brexit, when politicians Brexiters or otherwise, fail in in an independent Britain there is a recognised, effective way of removing them and, crucially, their policies.
- Pre-Brexit, we can remove British politicians but we are still stuck with whatever policies are decided on the European stage and a new government must still apply them. (The best UK voters can hope for is better application of EU policies.)
- The EU’s acquis communautaire, it’s ‘body of law', is huge and almost all of it applies to the UK whether it's in our interests or not. See the European Commission’s website for a sense of its scope.
I've seen some late poll results that currently about 65% of British would vote for staying in the EU, as the true price of the hard Brexit is becoming a reality rather than the so called 'soft Brexit'. For example, Britain paid last year the medical expenses of the British people to Spain worth 280M euros while the Spanish government paid altogether only about 150,000 euros of the Spanish people's medical expenses to Britain. These figures also include the tourists requiring medical care. Of course, some 300,000 Brits are living in Spain, out of which about a third are over 65 years old. About 1 million Brits are living in EU countries. Much of these 1 million people are now scared that they will most probably lose the advantages what the EU has brought, including the agreements on medical expenses, which means that they will need to apply for the citizenship of the country they are living in or they are dependent on the country policy for non-EU country citizens. Now, maybe you don't give a f**k what happens to those people but I think you will need to pay more taxes when those people are returning to Britain because of this simple reason. This is just one very simple but very basic question of what Brexit means in your personal financial life as well, increasing the taxes you need to pay for. Now, all you talk about is this "independent Britain". In the real world, how "independent" you will be as you will need to have basically thousands of agreements with different countries how Britain does its daily business including all the British businesses and life of the British people who travel and/or live in outsite UK borders? I'm still asking you: Why is this very very strict view of what an independent nation (coming from the realities of us human beings, especially European ones as we discovered the very concept of modern nationalism) is so important in your life that it is basically comparable to a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrilege ? Do you think you are representing a democracy when the values you are representing of, are very close to that of nationalism and which brought to the entire world of human history ... what again? Uh? Please, try to make some sense when talking about isms that you need to think way beyound your personal life, to the masses of people and how those masses of people can react to an ism and those values thereof. Understanding something of the history and some basic understanding of human psychology helps in this matter, you know...
No doubt you have seen polls that say that. You probably also saw all the polls that said the UK would vote to remain in the EU. They were wrong. I wouldn’t get your hopes raised on polls, Jar. They say whatever the people commissioning them want them to say. Is pointing out how much the UK pays for UK citizens in Spain v how much the Spain pays for Spanish citizens in the UK supposed to be an argument for remaining in the EU? If it is, I’m not sure how! And anyone who is scared about their status should perhaps look to the European Commission for reassurance. We know the British government will guarantee the rights and status of other EU citizens in the UK if the EU will guarantee the rights of British citizens in the EU. Brexiters have said that this should happen all along. Instead of course, the EU would like to see EU citizens in the UK under the jurisdiction of EU law. Like that’s going to happen. In the UK everyone will be equal before UK law. It’s not all I talk about at all. You have not the faintest idea what other things I talk about. It is however what we have chosen to talk about, probably because we are so diametrically opposed on this subject. It is the subject of this thread too but if you don’t want to talk about it, stop posting here. I will try to live with the disappointment. The UK will be as independent as any other independent country, ie one that makes its own laws and reacts to what it cannot control as it sees fits. I want to live in a democracy, and the EU does not qualify as one. The UK will negotiate whatever agreements are necessary, just like any other independent country does. Stop trying to play the fear card. It’s already failed. Any issues will be negotiated by the parties involved, but if no agreement can be reached the deal will fall through as with any international agreement. I want to live in a democracy. The EU is not a democracy. And a country is either independent or it’s not. There is no half way. And I’m not trying to represent anything. My views are my own, though I’m in agreement with most of the UK electorate on the subject of the EU. Do you think you are on the side of democracy as an EU supporter? Just what is it that you think you understand of human psychology that I don’t? Doesn’t your knowledge of human psychology tell you that humans can disagree profoundly about all kinds of things and still not be deficient in any way? Let me bring this down to basics.
So you believe that riding on the wave of nationalism, all the clear and present lies the British Press have spread for years and years to make more money for themselves, NOT FOR YOU, is a good sign of a good democracy?
The same phenomenon is existing today in most European countries and including USA especially with the Trumpism, when democracy is questioned by those forces who try to use democracy and so called "freedom of speech" to advance their support but not taking any responsibility of what they are saying and especially, what lies behind those words. UKIP is a very good example of a single political party but basically so wide-spread across Europe (Putin's Russia included) with the values they truly represent. Are you perhaps trying to pretend that UKIP didn't bring anything new to the historically very two-party system in UK?
No, you cannot control it if the nationalists take over a government what happens to democratic values. We are talking about humans and the values they have and their practices is real life. The country doesn't matter, the ism does. Read some basics of history how democracy has been misused by us humans.
Also, I think it's about time to refer to this what I've referred to with Siberian (former Katzap): https://rsf.org/en/rankin See the UK ranking, and see the top rankings (even though Finland could lose the ranking position because of an incident our current PM has made when interfering with press freedom regarding one personal subject as a PM and how that national press reacted to that). I presume you will "wipe your arse" with this organization and what values it represents also in the western world, right? 
Edited by jar, Dec 23 2016, 04:09 PM.
|
|
|
| |
|
Siberian
|
Dec 23 2016, 04:05 PM
Post #468
|
|
- Posts:
- 5,211
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #136
- Joined:
- Mar 26, 2016
|
Jar, get unfrozen, Brexit happened an age ago, keep up with life and new European (xenophobic) values...
Edited by Siberian, Dec 23 2016, 04:05 PM.
|
|
Goood morning GULAG!!!
|
| |
|
jar
|
Dec 23 2016, 04:20 PM
Post #469
|
|
Previously 'jr' (before the site crash)
- Posts:
- 373
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #36
- Joined:
- Mar 18, 2016
|
- Siberian
- Dec 23 2016, 04:05 PM
Jar, get unfrozen, Brexit happened an age ago, keep up with life and new European (xenophobic) values...  Brexit won't happen for a while at least because the Brits don't have a clue what the f*k to do with the decision "the people" made in June 2016. 
And Russians are someones who Europeans should listen to regarding xenophobia? Playing ?
|
|
|
| |
|
Siberian
|
Dec 23 2016, 04:32 PM
Post #470
|
|
- Posts:
- 5,211
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #136
- Joined:
- Mar 26, 2016
|
Russians have nothing to do with the course of History, unless it makes us its tool from time to time, but Brexit is inevitable regardless of Russia, as well as the EU total collapse. If you don't understand it - blane yourself and permafrost you live in...
|
|
Goood morning GULAG!!!
|
| |
|
Nan Tucks Ghost
|
Dec 23 2016, 05:47 PM
Post #471
|
|
- Posts:
- 129
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #152
- Joined:
- Apr 4, 2016
|
- jar
- Dec 23 2016, 04:03 PM
- Nan Tucks Ghost
- Dec 19 2016, 12:34 PM
- jar
- Dec 16 2016, 03:07 PM
- Quote:
-
You can of course be opposed to Brexit as you wish, but to do it on the grounds you have is to foolishly accept europhile propaganda in my opinion. You might have a point on Trump, but it is sensible to be a friend of a powerful man who seems to support Brexit. Your and the EU's enemies are not necessarily mine or Brexit Britain's. I’ve never suggested that my 'kind of people should be in control of what humanity is all about 'once again'" at all, nor have they ever been. And what era are you referring to? When do you think my 'kind of people’ were in control’? And as for who understands more of human history ... it's not a competition and who is to say anyway? I think you might be entirely missing the point of Brexit. I’ll try to simplify it for you: [.] It’s not that Brexiters are better or worse than anyone else.
- It’s that post-Brexit, when politicians Brexiters or otherwise, fail in in an independent Britain there is a recognised, effective way of removing them and, crucially, their policies.
- Pre-Brexit, we can remove British politicians but we are still stuck with whatever policies are decided on the European stage and a new government must still apply them. (The best UK voters can hope for is better application of EU policies.)
- The EU’s acquis communautaire, it’s ‘body of law', is huge and almost all of it applies to the UK whether it's in our interests or not. See the European Commission’s website for a sense of its scope.
I've seen some late poll results that currently about 65% of British would vote for staying in the EU, as the true price of the hard Brexit is becoming a reality rather than the so called 'soft Brexit'. For example, Britain paid last year the medical expenses of the British people to Spain worth 280M euros while the Spanish government paid altogether only about 150,000 euros of the Spanish people's medical expenses to Britain. These figures also include the tourists requiring medical care. Of course, some 300,000 Brits are living in Spain, out of which about a third are over 65 years old. About 1 million Brits are living in EU countries. Much of these 1 million people are now scared that they will most probably lose the advantages what the EU has brought, including the agreements on medical expenses, which means that they will need to apply for the citizenship of the country they are living in or they are dependent on the country policy for non-EU country citizens. Now, maybe you don't give a f**k what happens to those people but I think you will need to pay more taxes when those people are returning to Britain because of this simple reason. This is just one very simple but very basic question of what Brexit means in your personal financial life as well, increasing the taxes you need to pay for. Now, all you talk about is this "independent Britain". In the real world, how "independent" you will be as you will need to have basically thousands of agreements with different countries how Britain does its daily business including all the British businesses and life of the British people who travel and/or live in outsite UK borders? I'm still asking you: Why is this very very strict view of what an independent nation (coming from the realities of us human beings, especially European ones as we discovered the very concept of modern nationalism) is so important in your life that it is basically comparable to a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrilege ? Do you think you are representing a democracy when the values you are representing of, are very close to that of nationalism and which brought to the entire world of human history ... what again? Uh? Please, try to make some sense when talking about isms that you need to think way beyound your personal life, to the masses of people and how those masses of people can react to an ism and those values thereof. Understanding something of the history and some basic understanding of human psychology helps in this matter, you know...
No doubt you have seen polls that say that. You probably also saw all the polls that said the UK would vote to remain in the EU. They were wrong. I wouldn’t get your hopes raised on polls, Jar. They say whatever the people commissioning them want them to say. Is pointing out how much the UK pays for UK citizens in Spain v how much the Spain pays for Spanish citizens in the UK supposed to be an argument for remaining in the EU? If it is, I’m not sure how! And anyone who is scared about their status should perhaps look to the European Commission for reassurance. We know the British government will guarantee the rights and status of other EU citizens in the UK if the EU will guarantee the rights of British citizens in the EU. Brexiters have said that this should happen all along. Instead of course, the EU would like to see EU citizens in the UK under the jurisdiction of EU law. Like that’s going to happen. In the UK everyone will be equal before UK law. It’s not all I talk about at all. You have not the faintest idea what other things I talk about. It is however what we have chosen to talk about, probably because we are so diametrically opposed on this subject. It is the subject of this thread too but if you don’t want to talk about it, stop posting here. I will try to live with the disappointment. The UK will be as independent as any other independent country, ie one that makes its own laws and reacts to what it cannot control as it sees fits. I want to live in a democracy, and the EU does not qualify as one. The UK will negotiate whatever agreements are necessary, just like any other independent country does. Stop trying to play the fear card. It’s already failed. Any issues will be negotiated by the parties involved, but if no agreement can be reached the deal will fall through as with any international agreement. I want to live in a democracy. The EU is not a democracy. And a country is either independent or it’s not. There is no half way. And I’m not trying to represent anything. My views are my own, though I’m in agreement with most of the UK electorate on the subject of the EU. Do you think you are on the side of democracy as an EU supporter? Just what is it that you think you understand of human psychology that I don’t? Doesn’t your knowledge of human psychology tell you that humans can disagree profoundly about all kinds of things and still not be deficient in any way?
Let me bring this down to basics. So you believe that riding on the wave of nationalism, all the clear and present lies the British Press have spread for years and years to make more money for themselves, NOT FOR YOU, is a good sign of a good democracy? The same phenomenon is existing today in most European countries and including USA especially with the Trumpism, when democracy is questioned by those forces who try to use democracy and so called "freedom of speech" to advance their support but not taking any responsibility of what they are saying and especially, what lies behind those words. UKIP is a very good example of a single political party but basically so wide-spread across Europe (Putin's Russia included) with the values they truly represent. Are you perhaps trying to pretend that UKIP didn't bring anything new to the historically very two-party system in UK? No, you cannot control it if the nationalists take over a government what happens to democratic values. We are talking about humans and the values they have and their practices is real life. The country doesn't matter, the ism does. Read some basics of history how democracy has been misused by us humans. Also, I think it's about time to refer to this what I've referred to with Siberian (former Katzap): https://rsf.org/en/rankinSee the UK ranking, and see the top rankings (even though Finland could lose the ranking position because of an incident our current PM has made when interfering with press freedom regarding one personal subject as a PM and how that national press reacted to that). I presume you will "wipe your arse" with this organization and what values it represents also in the western world, right?  I believe in democracy. What is it about that that’s so difficult for you to understand? There is no democratically elected EU institution that can change policies. It’s states without democratic accountability that have the greater potential to be dangerous. And lies abound in politics and the biggest culprits are EU supporting politicians, aided by their friends in the press and broadcast media. I never said, and I’ve never heard anyone else say, the British press acted to make money for me or any ordinary citizen. What an absurd idea that is. What I do know is that both the British establishment and the EU are interested in shaping policies that benefit themselves and multinational corporations.
You’ve made your point about what you see as UKIP’s similarities with other European parties before and I’ve said more than once that if political parties across Europe are like UKIP, that’s a good thing. And UKIP has definitely brought something new to the largely two party system in the UK … an anti-establishment choice. And UKIP won a national election … no other party other than the Conservatives or Labour have done that since the Edwardian era.
UKIP has no intention of misusing democracy, and I’m not the kind of ‘nationalist’ you need to worry about, quite the contrary.
https://rsf.org/en/ranking
I’ve fixed the link for you, and I wouldn’t do anything so vulgar. I’d like to see the rationale behind the RSF report. As journalists in the UK have been largely anti-UKIP and pro-EU for decades, somehow I don’t think that rationale is be open, factual and unbiased in reports related to UKIP. Their coverage of the EU is not much better. I did notice this organisation lists, as one of its supporters, an agency of the European Commission.
|
|
|
| |
|
Nan Tucks Ghost
|
Dec 23 2016, 05:52 PM
Post #472
|
|
- Posts:
- 129
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #152
- Joined:
- Apr 4, 2016
|
- jar
- Dec 23 2016, 04:20 PM
- Siberian
- Dec 23 2016, 04:05 PM
Jar, get unfrozen, Brexit happened an age ago, keep up with life and new European (xenophobic) values... 
Brexit won't happen for a while at least because the Brits don't have a clue what the f*k to do with the decision "the people" made in June 2016.  And Russians are someones who Europeans should listen to regarding xenophobia? Playing  ? Brits most definitely know what to do with the referendum decision, but unfortunately we are governed by politicians who want to remain in the EU so it's taking them time to work through their options. They'll come to the conclusion that they cannot ignore the will of the people.
Theresa May, to her credit, seems set to invoke Article 50 by the end of March next year.
|
|
|
| |
|
jar
|
Dec 25 2016, 03:18 PM
Post #473
|
|
Previously 'jr' (before the site crash)
- Posts:
- 373
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #36
- Joined:
- Mar 18, 2016
|
- Nan Tucks Ghost
- Dec 23 2016, 05:47 PM
- jar
- Dec 23 2016, 04:03 PM
- Nan Tucks Ghost
- Dec 19 2016, 12:34 PM
- jar
- Dec 16 2016, 03:07 PM
- Quote:
-
You can of course be opposed to Brexit as you wish, but to do it on the grounds you have is to foolishly accept europhile propaganda in my opinion. You might have a point on Trump, but it is sensible to be a friend of a powerful man who seems to support Brexit. Your and the EU's enemies are not necessarily mine or Brexit Britain's. I’ve never suggested that my 'kind of people should be in control of what humanity is all about 'once again'" at all, nor have they ever been. And what era are you referring to? When do you think my 'kind of people’ were in control’? And as for who understands more of human history ... it's not a competition and who is to say anyway? I think you might be entirely missing the point of Brexit. I’ll try to simplify it for you: [.] It’s not that Brexiters are better or worse than anyone else.
- It’s that post-Brexit, when politicians Brexiters or otherwise, fail in in an independent Britain there is a recognised, effective way of removing them and, crucially, their policies.
- Pre-Brexit, we can remove British politicians but we are still stuck with whatever policies are decided on the European stage and a new government must still apply them. (The best UK voters can hope for is better application of EU policies.)
- The EU’s acquis communautaire, it’s ‘body of law', is huge and almost all of it applies to the UK whether it's in our interests or not. See the European Commission’s website for a sense of its scope.
I've seen some late poll results that currently about 65% of British would vote for staying in the EU, as the true price of the hard Brexit is becoming a reality rather than the so called 'soft Brexit'. For example, Britain paid last year the medical expenses of the British people to Spain worth 280M euros while the Spanish government paid altogether only about 150,000 euros of the Spanish people's medical expenses to Britain. These figures also include the tourists requiring medical care. Of course, some 300,000 Brits are living in Spain, out of which about a third are over 65 years old. About 1 million Brits are living in EU countries. Much of these 1 million people are now scared that they will most probably lose the advantages what the EU has brought, including the agreements on medical expenses, which means that they will need to apply for the citizenship of the country they are living in or they are dependent on the country policy for non-EU country citizens. Now, maybe you don't give a f**k what happens to those people but I think you will need to pay more taxes when those people are returning to Britain because of this simple reason. This is just one very simple but very basic question of what Brexit means in your personal financial life as well, increasing the taxes you need to pay for. Now, all you talk about is this "independent Britain". In the real world, how "independent" you will be as you will need to have basically thousands of agreements with different countries how Britain does its daily business including all the British businesses and life of the British people who travel and/or live in outsite UK borders? I'm still asking you: Why is this very very strict view of what an independent nation (coming from the realities of us human beings, especially European ones as we discovered the very concept of modern nationalism) is so important in your life that it is basically comparable to a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrilege ? Do you think you are representing a democracy when the values you are representing of, are very close to that of nationalism and which brought to the entire world of human history ... what again? Uh? Please, try to make some sense when talking about isms that you need to think way beyound your personal life, to the masses of people and how those masses of people can react to an ism and those values thereof. Understanding something of the history and some basic understanding of human psychology helps in this matter, you know...
No doubt you have seen polls that say that. You probably also saw all the polls that said the UK would vote to remain in the EU. They were wrong. I wouldn’t get your hopes raised on polls, Jar. They say whatever the people commissioning them want them to say. Is pointing out how much the UK pays for UK citizens in Spain v how much the Spain pays for Spanish citizens in the UK supposed to be an argument for remaining in the EU? If it is, I’m not sure how! And anyone who is scared about their status should perhaps look to the European Commission for reassurance. We know the British government will guarantee the rights and status of other EU citizens in the UK if the EU will guarantee the rights of British citizens in the EU. Brexiters have said that this should happen all along. Instead of course, the EU would like to see EU citizens in the UK under the jurisdiction of EU law. Like that’s going to happen. In the UK everyone will be equal before UK law. It’s not all I talk about at all. You have not the faintest idea what other things I talk about. It is however what we have chosen to talk about, probably because we are so diametrically opposed on this subject. It is the subject of this thread too but if you don’t want to talk about it, stop posting here. I will try to live with the disappointment. The UK will be as independent as any other independent country, ie one that makes its own laws and reacts to what it cannot control as it sees fits. I want to live in a democracy, and the EU does not qualify as one. The UK will negotiate whatever agreements are necessary, just like any other independent country does. Stop trying to play the fear card. It’s already failed. Any issues will be negotiated by the parties involved, but if no agreement can be reached the deal will fall through as with any international agreement. I want to live in a democracy. The EU is not a democracy. And a country is either independent or it’s not. There is no half way. And I’m not trying to represent anything. My views are my own, though I’m in agreement with most of the UK electorate on the subject of the EU. Do you think you are on the side of democracy as an EU supporter? Just what is it that you think you understand of human psychology that I don’t? Doesn’t your knowledge of human psychology tell you that humans can disagree profoundly about all kinds of things and still not be deficient in any way?
Let me bring this down to basics. So you believe that riding on the wave of nationalism, all the clear and present lies the British Press have spread for years and years to make more money for themselves, NOT FOR YOU, is a good sign of a good democracy? The same phenomenon is existing today in most European countries and including USA especially with the Trumpism, when democracy is questioned by those forces who try to use democracy and so called "freedom of speech" to advance their support but not taking any responsibility of what they are saying and especially, what lies behind those words. UKIP is a very good example of a single political party but basically so wide-spread across Europe (Putin's Russia included) with the values they truly represent. Are you perhaps trying to pretend that UKIP didn't bring anything new to the historically very two-party system in UK? No, you cannot control it if the nationalists take over a government what happens to democratic values. We are talking about humans and the values they have and their practices is real life. The country doesn't matter, the ism does. Read some basics of history how democracy has been misused by us humans. Also, I think it's about time to refer to this what I've referred to with Siberian (former Katzap): https://rsf.org/en/rankinSee the UK ranking, and see the top rankings (even though Finland could lose the ranking position because of an incident our current PM has made when interfering with press freedom regarding one personal subject as a PM and how that national press reacted to that). I presume you will "wipe your arse" with this organization and what values it represents also in the western world, right? 
I believe in democracy. What is it about that that’s so difficult for you to understand? There is no democratically elected EU institution that can change policies. It’s states without democratic accountability that have the greater potential to be dangerous. And lies abound in politics and the biggest culprits are EU supporting politicians, aided by their friends in the press and broadcast media. I never said, and I’ve never heard anyone else say, the British press acted to make money for me or any ordinary citizen. What an absurd idea that is. What I do know is that both the British establishment and the EU are interested in shaping policies that benefit themselves and multinational corporations. You’ve made your point about what you see as UKIP’s similarities with other European parties before and I’ve said more than once that if political parties across Europe are like UKIP, that’s a good thing. And UKIP has definitely brought something new to the largely two party system in the UK … an anti-establishment choice. And UKIP won a national election … no other party other than the Conservatives or Labour have done that since the Edwardian era. UKIP has no intention of misusing democracy, and I’m not the kind of ‘nationalist’ you need to worry about, quite the contrary. https://rsf.org/en/rankingI’ve fixed the link for you, and I wouldn’t do anything so vulgar. I’d like to see the rationale behind the RSF report. As journalists in the UK have been largely anti-UKIP and pro-EU for decades, somehow I don’t think that rationale is be open, factual and unbiased in reports related to UKIP. Their coverage of the EU is not much better. I did notice this organisation lists, as one of its supporters, an agency of the European Commission. What?
You're just taking a credit of having such a close call: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36616028
Why? This question of democracy is a just a matter of values, where democracy is at true stake, when there's a true lack of the very basics of a democracy: Press freedom.
You need to provide real evidence that UKIP has true respect for democracy even though they have these same problems as any such political party has in anywhere in the world, being so close to dictatorship where lies are so obvious that those populistic persons even clearly admit it themselves that they have lied.
First of all: UKIP must be the 3rd party in charge of the UK, so it needs to be in the government. Until it is - like the very equal party of the Basic Finns we have in this country, which is based on another party (SMP) founded at the end of 1950´s and which got bankcrupted in 1995 (having very close relationships to the Soviet Union and e.g. to a nationalistic party in Hungary) - UK and Finland has quite a deep gap of experience of real human life in a democracy how a single party, of all possible parties there can be in the world, tries to change the world with the sense of responsibility of their actions.
Sorry, but I just see that entire UK is a victim of its own history and the changes required to accept the changing world is not for UKIP to do, because it is clearly incapable of taking ANY kind of responsibility at all - UNTIL it is part of the government in charge. Until then, UKIP has just created havoc in UK with a hint of dictatorship attitude and behaviour, and taking the advantage of the simplistic twofold political history, adding some simplistic lies to the British press and tabloids, to which the age old two parties have had to answer.
|
|
|
| |
|
Siberian
|
Dec 26 2016, 05:12 AM
Post #474
|
|
- Posts:
- 5,211
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #136
- Joined:
- Mar 26, 2016
|
- Nan Tucks Ghost
- Dec 23 2016, 05:52 PM
- jar
- Dec 23 2016, 04:20 PM
- Siberian
- Dec 23 2016, 04:05 PM
Jar, get unfrozen, Brexit happened an age ago, keep up with life and new European (xenophobic) values... 
Brexit won't happen for a while at least because the Brits don't have a clue what the f*k to do with the decision "the people" made in June 2016.  And Russians are someones who Europeans should listen to regarding xenophobia? Playing  ?
Brits most definitely know what to do with the referendum decision, but unfortunately we are governed by politicians who want to remain in the EU so it's taking them time to work through their options. They'll come to the conclusion that they cannot ignore the will of the people. Theresa May, to her credit, seems set to invoke Article 50 by the end of March next year. we'll see. I think in the best case it will be done formally, while de facto they will substitute what was a EU framework with mayby separate UK-EU agrements with the same substance.
|
|
Goood morning GULAG!!!
|
| |
|
W A Mozart
|
Dec 26 2016, 09:01 PM
Post #475
|
|
- Posts:
- 3,663
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #26
- Joined:
- Mar 18, 2016
|
Now, this is interesting. Even the Queen wants outta the Euro nonsense.
Way to go Queenie....!
- Quote:
-

Mozart
|
|
|
| |
|
Robert Stout
|
Dec 27 2016, 12:11 AM
Post #476
|
|
- Posts:
- 27,190
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #112
- Joined:
- Mar 22, 2016
|
Perhaps senility contributes to Brexit....That is not a bad thing....................
|
|
Jesus can raise the dead, but he can't fix stupid
|
| |
|
Nan Tucks Ghost
|
Dec 27 2016, 12:59 PM
Post #477
|
|
- Posts:
- 129
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #152
- Joined:
- Apr 4, 2016
|
- jar
- Dec 25 2016, 03:18 PM
- Nan Tucks Ghost
- Dec 23 2016, 05:47 PM
- jar
- Dec 23 2016, 04:03 PM
- Nan Tucks Ghost
- Dec 19 2016, 12:34 PM
- jar
- Dec 16 2016, 03:07 PM
Quoting limited to 5 levels deep 'kind of people should be in control of what humanity is all about 'once again'" at all, nor have they ever been. And what era are you referring to? When do you think my 'kind of people’ were in control’? And as for who understands more of human history ... it's not a competition and who is to say anyway? I think you might be entirely missing the point of Brexit. I’ll try to simplify it for you: [.] It’s not that Brexiters are better or worse than anyone else.
- It’s that post-Brexit, when politicians Brexiters or otherwise, fail in in an independent Britain there is a recognised, effective way of removing them and, crucially, their policies.
- Pre-Brexit, we can remove British politicians but we are still stuck with whatever policies are decided on the European stage and a new government must still apply them. (The best UK voters can hope for is better application of EU policies.)
- The EU’s acquis communautaire, it’s ‘body of law', is huge and almost all of it applies to the UK whether it's in our interests or not. See the European Commission’s website for a sense of its scope.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrilege ? Do you think you are representing a democracy when the values you are representing of, are very close to that of nationalism and which brought to the entire world of human history ... what again? Uh? Please, try to make some sense when talking about isms that you need to think way beyound your personal life, to the masses of people and how those masses of people can react to an ism and those values thereof. Understanding something of the history and some basic understanding of human psychology helps in this matter, you know...
No doubt you have seen polls that say that. You probably also saw all the polls that said the UK would vote to remain in the EU. They were wrong. I wouldn’t get your hopes raised on polls, Jar. They say whatever the people commissioning them want them to say. Is pointing out how much the UK pays for UK citizens in Spain v how much the Spain pays for Spanish citizens in the UK supposed to be an argument for remaining in the EU? If it is, I’m not sure how! And anyone who is scared about their status should perhaps look to the European Commission for reassurance. We know the British government will guarantee the rights and status of other EU citizens in the UK if the EU will guarantee the rights of British citizens in the EU. Brexiters have said that this should happen all along. Instead of course, the EU would like to see EU citizens in the UK under the jurisdiction of EU law. Like that’s going to happen. In the UK everyone will be equal before UK law. It’s not all I talk about at all. You have not the faintest idea what other things I talk about. It is however what we have chosen to talk about, probably because we are so diametrically opposed on this subject. It is the subject of this thread too but if you don’t want to talk about it, stop posting here. I will try to live with the disappointment. The UK will be as independent as any other independent country, ie one that makes its own laws and reacts to what it cannot control as it sees fits. I want to live in a democracy, and the EU does not qualify as one. The UK will negotiate whatever agreements are necessary, just like any other independent country does. Stop trying to play the fear card. It’s already failed. Any issues will be negotiated by the parties involved, but if no agreement can be reached the deal will fall through as with any international agreement. I want to live in a democracy. The EU is not a democracy. And a country is either independent or it’s not. There is no half way. And I’m not trying to represent anything. My views are my own, though I’m in agreement with most of the UK electorate on the subject of the EU. Do you think you are on the side of democracy as an EU supporter? Just what is it that you think you understand of human psychology that I don’t? Doesn’t your knowledge of human psychology tell you that humans can disagree profoundly about all kinds of things and still not be deficient in any way?
Let me bring this down to basics. So you believe that riding on the wave of nationalism, all the clear and present lies the British Press have spread for years and years to make more money for themselves, NOT FOR YOU, is a good sign of a good democracy? The same phenomenon is existing today in most European countries and including USA especially with the Trumpism, when democracy is questioned by those forces who try to use democracy and so called "freedom of speech" to advance their support but not taking any responsibility of what they are saying and especially, what lies behind those words. UKIP is a very good example of a single political party but basically so wide-spread across Europe (Putin's Russia included) with the values they truly represent. Are you perhaps trying to pretend that UKIP didn't bring anything new to the historically very two-party system in UK? No, you cannot control it if the nationalists take over a government what happens to democratic values. We are talking about humans and the values they have and their practices is real life. The country doesn't matter, the ism does. Read some basics of history how democracy has been misused by us humans. Also, I think it's about time to refer to this what I've referred to with Siberian (former Katzap): https://rsf.org/en/rankinSee the UK ranking, and see the top rankings (even though Finland could lose the ranking position because of an incident our current PM has made when interfering with press freedom regarding one personal subject as a PM and how that national press reacted to that). I presume you will "wipe your arse" with this organization and what values it represents also in the western world, right? 
I believe in democracy. What is it about that that’s so difficult for you to understand? There is no democratically elected EU institution that can change policies. It’s states without democratic accountability that have the greater potential to be dangerous. And lies abound in politics and the biggest culprits are EU supporting politicians, aided by their friends in the press and broadcast media. I never said, and I’ve never heard anyone else say, the British press acted to make money for me or any ordinary citizen. What an absurd idea that is. What I do know is that both the British establishment and the EU are interested in shaping policies that benefit themselves and multinational corporations. You’ve made your point about what you see as UKIP’s similarities with other European parties before and I’ve said more than once that if political parties across Europe are like UKIP, that’s a good thing. And UKIP has definitely brought something new to the largely two party system in the UK … an anti-establishment choice. And UKIP won a national election … no other party other than the Conservatives or Labour have done that since the Edwardian era. UKIP has no intention of misusing democracy, and I’m not the kind of ‘nationalist’ you need to worry about, quite the contrary. https://rsf.org/en/rankingI’ve fixed the link for you, and I wouldn’t do anything so vulgar. I’d like to see the rationale behind the RSF report. As journalists in the UK have been largely anti-UKIP and pro-EU for decades, somehow I don’t think that rationale is be open, factual and unbiased in reports related to UKIP. Their coverage of the EU is not much better. I did notice this organisation lists, as one of its supporters, an agency of the European Commission.
What? You're just taking a credit of having such a close call: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36616028Why? This question of democracy is a just a matter of values, where democracy is at true stake, when there's a true lack of the very basics of a democracy: Press freedom. You need to provide real evidence that UKIP has true respect for democracy even though they have these same problems as any such political party has in anywhere in the world, being so close to dictatorship where lies are so obvious that those populistic persons even clearly admit it themselves that they have lied. First of all: UKIP must be the 3rd party in charge of the UK, so it needs to be in the government. Until it is - like the very equal party of the Basic Finns we have in this country, which is based on another party (SMP) founded at the end of 1950´s and which got bankcrupted in 1995 (having very close relationships to the Soviet Union and e.g. to a nationalistic party in Hungary) - UK and Finland has quite a deep gap of experience of real human life in a democracy how a single party, of all possible parties there can be in the world, tries to change the world with the sense of responsibility of their actions. Sorry, but I just see that entire UK is a victim of its own history and the changes required to accept the changing world is not for UKIP to do, because it is clearly incapable of taking ANY kind of responsibility at all - UNTIL it is part of the government in charge. Until then, UKIP has just created havoc in UK with a hint of dictatorship attitude and behaviour, and taking the advantage of the simplistic twofold political history, adding some simplistic lies to the British press and tabloids, to which the age old two parties have had to answer.
I’m not taking the credit for anything. As you know, the ‘close call’ was a difference of more than a million votes. Incidentally, if the referendum had been a General Election, ‘leave’ would have won a landslide victory. I didn’t see you complaining about the results of any of our elections.
Do you think there’d have been a remain vote if there had been more ‘press freedom’? I think the vote would have been far more decisively for leave had the press just been unbiased. I don’t think the electorate would have voted to join in the first place if the press had been unbiased. A free press, unbiased press would not have allowed EU supporting parties and the broadcast media to portray the EU as a minor irritant in our lives for as long as they did. It’s only in recent times that they’ve had to be more honest now that we no longer have to rely on mainstream sources of news anymore.
I don’t need to provide anything, but as you’ve asked I’ll humour you:
Firstly, in no way is UKIP close to dictatorship. Perhaps you’ve been sampling too much Christmas vodka in thinking that, and you keep harping on about UKIP’s lies … what are these lies? Please list them with direct quotes from UKIP. Remember, however much you dislike with what UKIP has said, it doesn’t mean UKIP has lied. And UKIP has respect for democracy written into its DNA. Apart from wanting to leave the EU, which is top of the list of democratic credentials, it supports a ‘direct democracy’ system and reform of the House of Lords.
It's for the UK electorate to decide which party or parties must be in government in the UK, not you. And this is another point you keep labouring on about … other parties similarities to UKIP. Once again, if that’s true, I can only congratulate them.
UKIP forced the government to allow the people to say whether the UK should stay in or leave the EU. Only someone opposed to democracy could criticise UKIP for this. And the lies again ….? If you are interested in lies, I can give you a list of EU supporters lies going back quite some time.
I think UKIP can take a lot of credit for what it's done, but it’s not in dispute that UKIP can’t govern until or unless it’s in government. It has no place to decide policies, or to negotiate, etc. Are you suggesting it does? Or how else do you would you like to see it take responsibility? It’s obviously not going to suddenly think the EU is a Good Thing, nor will it agree with EU supporters’ positions, so how else do you think it could take responsibility? And never apologise for saying what you think, but don’t think I’ll lose any sleep over what you see, say or think.
|
|
|
| |
|
Nan Tucks Ghost
|
Dec 27 2016, 01:01 PM
Post #478
|
|
- Posts:
- 129
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #152
- Joined:
- Apr 4, 2016
|
- Robert Stout
- Dec 27 2016, 12:11 AM
Perhaps senility contributes to Brexit....That is not a bad thing.................... You suggesting the Queen is senile? She might be old, but as far as I know there's no suggestion she's senile.
This is all media speculation anyway. It doesn't matter what the Queen thinks.
|
|
|
| |
|
jar
|
Jan 17 2017, 02:56 PM
Post #479
|
|
Previously 'jr' (before the site crash)
- Posts:
- 373
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #36
- Joined:
- Mar 18, 2016
|
Brexit has taken today a major leap to "Make Britain Great Again" as it was before WW1 
Good luck on repeating the history of nationalism, trying alone to make it in a globalized world but not that much stance on today's world as a single country as it would like to have. Remember: All your to be Trade Agreements, Britain is an underdog, new powers (excluding EU) making sure they will not let you have the final say. I'd say Britain is adrift for many many years to come of their stance in the world.
Remember, the nationalistic forces in Britain will take all the credits of the basic value Brexit is truly based on, with years of propaganda machines in the British press drumming their agenda with this value.
Nan Tucks Ghost can believe in the naivety of what Brexit "is all about": Blaming the EU and the European Commission (28 members who are not elected directly by EU citizens but by European Commission and with Council of the European Union) of everything what is bad in Britain.
|
|
|
| |
|
W A Mozart
|
Jan 17 2017, 05:29 PM
Post #480
|
|
- Posts:
- 3,663
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #26
- Joined:
- Mar 18, 2016
|
The Brits are almost out! Three, four more months maybe.
All of Europe should leave the EU within 3 to 5 years. A nation state is the most precious thing on this here earth.
Mozart
|
|
|
| |
| 2 users reading this topic (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous)
|