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EU referendum results live: Brexit most likely outcome says leading pollster
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Topic Started: Jun 23 2016, 09:09 PM (12,033 Views)
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jar
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Mar 31 2017, 02:15 PM
Post #521
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Previously 'jr' (before the site crash)
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- Nan Tucks Ghost
- Mar 30 2017, 05:22 PM
The above link is to the UK PM Theresa May's letter to Donald Tusk
This is ARTICLE 50:
1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.
2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.
4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.
A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.
5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.
I've read that many times.
This is a good test how this article will be handled in reality, but before the Brexit vote, I was expecting that countries like Poland, Hungary or some other Eastern European country would have rather taken the opportunity of such possibility, as they have more closer history of non-democratic values and history of less press freedom compared to that of the UK. I was wrong. Such non-democratic values are well seen in Britain, France, Italy, Austria and Finland as well, for example. Latest elections in the Netherlands showed that "The Hype of EU's faults" doesn't have too much ground in peoples' minds.
The trouble Brexit supporters have is that they have believed clear and outright lies the British Press has written about for years and years mainly negative things about the EU and what it stands for in front of the multi-polar and increasingly global world. This is so obvious and well known fact that if you don't accept it as a fact of life in UK, then our perceptions of press freedom and, I'd say the values of humans existing on this planet, are not comparable.
Again, all European countries have similar writings about the EU by some news publications, including Finland, which has been on tops of the Press Freedom Index since it has been ranked from 2002 onwards. We see in our publications the same things as British Press has lied about BUT with much lower support from the people.
One major difference between Britain and Finland is in politics that we have allowed the UKIP counterpart party in Finland, the Basic Finns, to be part of the government, to be in charge of the country matters. Yes, again, it is a party which is has always been concentrating on only the negative things in the existence of the EU and "what it has brought to Finland". Once it started trying to be a responsible political party, its support has plummeted from nearly 25% down to less than 10%. As the party leader (same guy since its existence) is stepping out this year, this may break up the current government as there are very few "capable" persons to take that position. "Capable" meaning that most of them are basically too radical for such a position if democratic values are to be valued.
Now you are trying to play a game that UKIP wasn't really responsible of hyping up the country to support Brexit with the history of clear lies about the EU. You can write anything you like about the following news but this is expressing the same type of people regardless of nationality how these kind of people think and act (note the general psychological behaviour patterns of such persons): https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/nigel-farage-ukip-resign-job-done-toxic-vote-leave-brexit-resign
Mr Joker Farage isn't the only such person seen in UKIP public face. You can yourself read about the different "figures" that party has ever produced.
Now, considering that Britain has only two major parties, the other one who is ideologically and value-wise closer to that of UKIP (as the Tories and UKIP are basically the only large Eurosceptic parties in UK), has needed to step up and take the responsibility since UKIP is not able to do so in front of the UK political scene.
You can try to talk your way out of being UKIP supporter and all what kind of people are behind such political parties in today's world but I'm not fooled by the likes of you, so I will disregard any such attempt, involving some understanding of human behaviour.
I wish good luck for the Brexit supporters like you that what the British Press told you about the consequences and what it didn't tell you about the consequences are accepted by the Brits and UK citizens (what might be left of it after Brexit has happened and years after that).
Now, I'm asking you to take the responsibility of your Brexit vote. Can you handle it as a human being of what you really supported in the face of this world without trying to talk your way out of any such responsibility? 
Democracy can be destroyed by voting for people whose values, ideals and/or acts are not based on those principles in reality when talking about masses of people, but it requires some understanding of history and human behaviour to see through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor%27s_New_Clothes
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Nan Tucks Ghost
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Apr 1 2017, 02:54 PM
Post #522
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- jar
- Mar 31 2017, 02:15 PM
- Nan Tucks Ghost
- Mar 30 2017, 05:22 PM
The above link is to the UK PM Theresa May's letter to Donald Tusk
This is ARTICLE 50:
1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.
2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.
4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.
A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.
5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.
I've read that many times. This is a good test how this article will be handled in reality, but before the Brexit vote, I was expecting that countries like Poland, Hungary or some other Eastern European country would have rather taken the opportunity of such possibility, as they have more closer history of non-democratic values and history of less press freedom compared to that of the UK. I was wrong. Such non-democratic values are well seen in Britain, France, Italy, Austria and Finland as well, for example. Latest elections in the Netherlands showed that "The Hype of EU's faults" doesn't have too much ground in peoples' minds. The trouble Brexit supporters have is that they have believed clear and outright lies the British Press has written about for years and years mainly negative things about the EU and what it stands for in front of the multi-polar and increasingly global world. This is so obvious and well known fact that if you don't accept it as a fact of life in UK, then our perceptions of press freedom and, I'd say the values of humans existing on this planet, are not comparable. Again, all European countries have similar writings about the EU by some news publications, including Finland, which has been on tops of the Press Freedom Index since it has been ranked from 2002 onwards. We see in our publications the same things as British Press has lied about BUT with much lower support from the people. One major difference between Britain and Finland is in politics that we have allowed the UKIP counterpart party in Finland, the Basic Finns, to be part of the government, to be in charge of the country matters. Yes, again, it is a party which is has always been concentrating on only the negative things in the existence of the EU and "what it has brought to Finland". Once it started trying to be a responsible political party, its support has plummeted from nearly 25% down to less than 10%. As the party leader (same guy since its existence) is stepping out this year, this may break up the current government as there are very few "capable" persons to take that position. "Capable" meaning that most of them are basically too radical for such a position if democratic values are to be valued. Now you are trying to play a game that UKIP wasn't really responsible of hyping up the country to support Brexit with the history of clear lies about the EU. You can write anything you like about the following news but this is expressing the same type of people regardless of nationality how these kind of people think and act (note the general psychological behaviour patterns of such persons): https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/nigel-farage-ukip-resign-job-done-toxic-vote-leave-brexit-resignMr Joker Farage isn't the only such person seen in UKIP public face. You can yourself read about the different "figures" that party has ever produced. Now, considering that Britain has only two major parties, the other one who is ideologically and value-wise closer to that of UKIP (as the Tories and UKIP are basically the only large Eurosceptic parties in UK), has needed to step up and take the responsibility since UKIP is not able to do so in front of the UK political scene. You can try to talk your way out of being UKIP supporter and all what kind of people are behind such political parties in today's world but I'm not fooled by the likes of you, so I will disregard any such attempt, involving some understanding of human behaviour. I wish good luck for the Brexit supporters like you that what the British Press told you about the consequences and what it didn't tell you about the consequences are accepted by the Brits and UK citizens (what might be left of it after Brexit has happened and years after that). Now, I'm asking you to take the responsibility of your Brexit vote. Can you handle it as a human being of what you really supported in the face of this world without trying to talk your way out of any such responsibility?  Democracy can be destroyed by voting for people whose values, ideals and/or acts are not based on those principles in reality when talking about masses of people, but it requires some understanding of history and human behaviour to see through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor%27s_New_Clothes Your contribution to the debate is as valued as always, but thanks for the good wishes. Good luck to you too.
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Robertr2000
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Apr 1 2017, 04:11 PM
Post #523
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- jar
- Mar 31 2017, 02:15 PM
- Nan Tucks Ghost
- Mar 30 2017, 05:22 PM
The above link is to the UK PM Theresa May's letter to Donald Tusk
This is ARTICLE 50:
1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.
2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.
4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.
A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.
5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.
I've read that many times. This is a good test how this article will be handled in reality, but before the Brexit vote, I was expecting that countries like Poland, Hungary or some other Eastern European country would have rather taken the opportunity of such possibility, as they have more closer history of non-democratic values and history of less press freedom compared to that of the UK. I was wrong. Such non-democratic values are well seen in Britain, France, Italy, Austria and Finland as well, for example. Latest elections in the Netherlands showed that "The Hype of EU's faults" doesn't have too much ground in peoples' minds. The trouble Brexit supporters have is that they have believed clear and outright lies the British Press has written about for years and years mainly negative things about the EU and what it stands for in front of the multi-polar and increasingly global world. This is so obvious and well known fact that if you don't accept it as a fact of life in UK, then our perceptions of press freedom and, I'd say the values of humans existing on this planet, are not comparable. Again, all European countries have similar writings about the EU by some news publications, including Finland, which has been on tops of the Press Freedom Index since it has been ranked from 2002 onwards. We see in our publications the same things as British Press has lied about BUT with much lower support from the people. One major difference between Britain and Finland is in politics that we have allowed the UKIP counterpart party in Finland, the Basic Finns, to be part of the government, to be in charge of the country matters. Yes, again, it is a party which is has always been concentrating on only the negative things in the existence of the EU and "what it has brought to Finland". Once it started trying to be a responsible political party, its support has plummeted from nearly 25% down to less than 10%. As the party leader (same guy since its existence) is stepping out this year, this may break up the current government as there are very few "capable" persons to take that position. "Capable" meaning that most of them are basically too radical for such a position if democratic values are to be valued. Now you are trying to play a game that UKIP wasn't really responsible of hyping up the country to support Brexit with the history of clear lies about the EU. You can write anything you like about the following news but this is expressing the same type of people regardless of nationality how these kind of people think and act (note the general psychological behaviour patterns of such persons): https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/nigel-farage-ukip-resign-job-done-toxic-vote-leave-brexit-resignMr Joker Farage isn't the only such person seen in UKIP public face. You can yourself read about the different "figures" that party has ever produced. Now, considering that Britain has only two major parties, the other one who is ideologically and value-wise closer to that of UKIP (as the Tories and UKIP are basically the only large Eurosceptic parties in UK), has needed to step up and take the responsibility since UKIP is not able to do so in front of the UK political scene. You can try to talk your way out of being UKIP supporter and all what kind of people are behind such political parties in today's world but I'm not fooled by the likes of you, so I will disregard any such attempt, involving some understanding of human behaviour. I wish good luck for the Brexit supporters like you that what the British Press told you about the consequences and what it didn't tell you about the consequences are accepted by the Brits and UK citizens (what might be left of it after Brexit has happened and years after that). Now, I'm asking you to take the responsibility of your Brexit vote. Can you handle it as a human being of what you really supported in the face of this world without trying to talk your way out of any such responsibility?  Democracy can be destroyed by voting for people whose values, ideals and/or acts are not based on those principles in reality when talking about masses of people, but it requires some understanding of history and human behaviour to see through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor%27s_New_Clothes The facts are that Europe and the World will be a better place when the EU finally collapses.
So much power in the hands of so few unaccountable power hungry psychopaths is always a bad thing.
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"if that **** wins we'll all hang from nooses"
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EuropeanLad
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Apr 2 2017, 04:32 PM
Post #524
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- Robertr2000
- Apr 1 2017, 04:11 PM
The facts are that Europe and the World will be a better place when the EU finally collapses.
So much power in the hands of so few unaccountable power hungry psychopaths is always a bad thing.
The EU will not collapse, forget it. Europeans know better. Without the EU, Europe is finished, it becomes a gigantic theme park for rich Chinese, American, Russian and Arabic oligarchs. Maybe some Eastern countries will leave, matbe not. But at least the 6 founding members will never stop the integration process. Ever closer union was not a joke. Eventually a proper democratic federation will be created with some of the current members, and then slowly all the other nations will freely choose to join. Finally, when all the Empire nostalgics will be gone, also the UK (or Scotland and England separately) will do so.
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jar
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Apr 3 2017, 06:27 AM
Post #525
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Previously 'jr' (before the site crash)
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Good going, Britain after Brexit
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/war-spain-gibraltar-blue-passports-metric-martyrs_uk_58e1294fe4b0c777f78825f2
"People Are Asking ‘WTF Has Brexit Unleashed?’ Amid ‘War With Spain’ And £500m Blue Passports"
No surprise to me that the old nationalistic fervor has been unleashed...
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Siberian
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Apr 3 2017, 06:55 AM
Post #526
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- EuropeanLad
- Apr 2 2017, 04:32 PM
- Robertr2000
- Apr 1 2017, 04:11 PM
The facts are that Europe and the World will be a better place when the EU finally collapses.
So much power in the hands of so few unaccountable power hungry psychopaths is always a bad thing.
The EU will not collapse, forget it. Europeans know better. Without the EU, Europe is finished, it becomes a gigantic theme park for rich Chinese, American, Russian and Arabic oligarchs. Maybe some Eastern countries will leave, matbe not. But at least the 6 founding members will never stop the integration process. Ever closer union was not a joke. Eventually a proper democratic federation will be created with some of the current members, and then slowly all the other nations will freely choose to join. Finally, when all the Empire nostalgics will be gone, also the UK (or Scotland and England separately) will do so. forget it, the EU is doomed, it was created artificially from too different economies, there's no chance of uniting them in sustainable way but within just one state with common taxes, interest rate, social benefits - and currency. Just one currency is not enough, it leads to even bigger disproportions in economy. And as Brexit demonstrated, rich Europeans don't want to feed poor ones for free. Economy will not allow the EU to exist in present shape, and if pendulum starts its way back - it will go in destruction much further than just return to Common market...
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Goood morning GULAG!!!
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EuropeanLad
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Apr 3 2017, 02:20 PM
Post #527
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- Siberian
- Apr 3 2017, 06:55 AM
- EuropeanLad
- Apr 2 2017, 04:32 PM
- Robertr2000
- Apr 1 2017, 04:11 PM
The facts are that Europe and the World will be a better place when the EU finally collapses.
So much power in the hands of so few unaccountable power hungry psychopaths is always a bad thing.
The EU will not collapse, forget it. Europeans know better. Without the EU, Europe is finished, it becomes a gigantic theme park for rich Chinese, American, Russian and Arabic oligarchs. Maybe some Eastern countries will leave, matbe not. But at least the 6 founding members will never stop the integration process. Ever closer union was not a joke. Eventually a proper democratic federation will be created with some of the current members, and then slowly all the other nations will freely choose to join. Finally, when all the Empire nostalgics will be gone, also the UK (or Scotland and England separately) will do so.
forget it, the EU is doomed, it was created artificially from too different economies, there's no chance of uniting them in sustainable way but within just one state with common taxes, interest rate, social benefits - and currency. Just one currency is not enough, it leads to even bigger disproportions in economy. And as Brexit demonstrated, rich Europeans don't want to feed poor ones for free. Economy will not allow the EU to exist in present shape, and if pendulum starts its way back - it will go in destruction much further than just return to Common market... It's interesting that only Brexiters, Putin supporters and American imperialists predict the doom of the EU. Never heard a French, German or Italian doing so. Only those who envy us and the power the EU gives us wish our doom. Which other nation on Earth dared fine Apple for $15bn? Or Microsoft? Or Credit Agricole, HSBC, JP Morgan? The EU it's too big to be bought, too complex to be influenced, and that's what scares the worlds oligarchs.
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Robertr2000
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Apr 3 2017, 02:30 PM
Post #528
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- EuropeanLad
- Apr 3 2017, 02:20 PM
- Siberian
- Apr 3 2017, 06:55 AM
- EuropeanLad
- Apr 2 2017, 04:32 PM
- Robertr2000
- Apr 1 2017, 04:11 PM
The facts are that Europe and the World will be a better place when the EU finally collapses.
So much power in the hands of so few unaccountable power hungry psychopaths is always a bad thing.
The EU will not collapse, forget it. Europeans know better. Without the EU, Europe is finished, it becomes a gigantic theme park for rich Chinese, American, Russian and Arabic oligarchs. Maybe some Eastern countries will leave, matbe not. But at least the 6 founding members will never stop the integration process. Ever closer union was not a joke. Eventually a proper democratic federation will be created with some of the current members, and then slowly all the other nations will freely choose to join. Finally, when all the Empire nostalgics will be gone, also the UK (or Scotland and England separately) will do so.
forget it, the EU is doomed, it was created artificially from too different economies, there's no chance of uniting them in sustainable way but within just one state with common taxes, interest rate, social benefits - and currency. Just one currency is not enough, it leads to even bigger disproportions in economy. And as Brexit demonstrated, rich Europeans don't want to feed poor ones for free. Economy will not allow the EU to exist in present shape, and if pendulum starts its way back - it will go in destruction much further than just return to Common market...
It's interesting that only Brexiters, Putin supporters and American imperialists predict the doom of the EU. Never heard a French, German or Italian doing so. Only those who envy us and the power the EU gives us wish our doom. Which other nation on Earth dared fine Apple for $15bn? Or Microsoft? Or Credit Agricole, HSBC, JP Morgan? The EU it's too big to be bought, too complex to be influenced, and that's what scares the worlds oligarchs. The EU is being wiped off the face of the map.
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"if that **** wins we'll all hang from nooses"
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Nan Tucks Ghost
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Apr 4 2017, 10:47 AM
Post #529
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- EuropeanLad
- Apr 3 2017, 02:20 PM
- Siberian
- Apr 3 2017, 06:55 AM
- EuropeanLad
- Apr 2 2017, 04:32 PM
- Robertr2000
- Apr 1 2017, 04:11 PM
The facts are that Europe and the World will be a better place when the EU finally collapses.
So much power in the hands of so few unaccountable power hungry psychopaths is always a bad thing.
The EU will not collapse, forget it. Europeans know better. Without the EU, Europe is finished, it becomes a gigantic theme park for rich Chinese, American, Russian and Arabic oligarchs. Maybe some Eastern countries will leave, matbe not. But at least the 6 founding members will never stop the integration process. Ever closer union was not a joke. Eventually a proper democratic federation will be created with some of the current members, and then slowly all the other nations will freely choose to join. Finally, when all the Empire nostalgics will be gone, also the UK (or Scotland and England separately) will do so.
forget it, the EU is doomed, it was created artificially from too different economies, there's no chance of uniting them in sustainable way but within just one state with common taxes, interest rate, social benefits - and currency. Just one currency is not enough, it leads to even bigger disproportions in economy. And as Brexit demonstrated, rich Europeans don't want to feed poor ones for free. Economy will not allow the EU to exist in present shape, and if pendulum starts its way back - it will go in destruction much further than just return to Common market...
It's interesting that only Brexiters, Putin supporters and American imperialists predict the doom of the EU. Never heard a French, German or Italian doing so. Only those who envy us and the power the EU gives us wish our doom. Which other nation on Earth dared fine Apple for $15bn? Or Microsoft? Or Credit Agricole, HSBC, JP Morgan? The EU it's too big to be bought, too complex to be influenced, and that's what scares the worlds oligarchs. I'd have been a little more impressed had the European Commission not let France off paying its £100,000 a day fine for illegally banning British beef.
Do you know how much the companies you mentioned actually paid in fines, and who received the money?
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Robertr2000
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Apr 4 2017, 01:15 PM
Post #530
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- EuropeanLad
- Apr 2 2017, 04:32 PM
- Robertr2000
- Apr 1 2017, 04:11 PM
The facts are that Europe and the World will be a better place when the EU finally collapses.
So much power in the hands of so few unaccountable power hungry psychopaths is always a bad thing.
The EU will not collapse, forget it. Europeans know better. Without the EU, Europe is finished, it becomes a gigantic theme park for rich Chinese, American, Russian and Arabic oligarchs. Maybe some Eastern countries will leave, matbe not. But at least the 6 founding members will never stop the integration process. Ever closer union was not a joke. Eventually a proper democratic federation will be created with some of the current members, and then slowly all the other nations will freely choose to join. Finally, when all the Empire nostalgics will be gone, also the UK (or Scotland and England separately) will do so. The EU is already collapsing.
Where do I buy tickets?
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"if that **** wins we'll all hang from nooses"
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