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Before the Clintonistas celebrate too much...
Topic Started: Jul 5 2016, 03:19 PM (1,696 Views)
Attaburnsinhell

CautionaryTales
Jul 5 2016, 03:24 PM
Two, just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get ya.

Boy, you're one to talk about someone else's paranoia

Two shows off his deepest fear, that Hillary may prove unelectable. Ive seen this fear in others like him on this board, manifesting itself into anger towards Sanders and his supporters. To them, Hillary blowing it will mean the end of the world and they have lashed out at fellow democrats with astonding amounts of venom, that if Hillary loses it will be all their fault!

The dem party elites are running on fear, because their day is almost over. In fact Hillary is their attempt to live in the past. She managed to win by a slim margin, mostly with older voters, while Bernie made off with the party's future, it's millenial voters.

Quote:
 
The Republicans will go through another period in the wilderness and will eventually emerge stronger and savvier, whether that happens sooner or later. Democrats cannot continue to be a party of populist rhetoric and elitist policy.

What makes this all the more frustrating, for a leftist like myself, is the very clear path forward that Democrats could take: to embrace the Sanders coalition rather than to revile it. Sanders won literally unprecedented margins among youth voters, crushing Clinton among the voters of the future. His message clearly resonated with a generation of people who have endured terrible economic conditions for their entire adult lives.

A 74-year-old socialist secular Jew didn’t massively outperform expectations by accident. The underlying economic conditions of our country – spiraling inequality, massive student loan debt, no secure middle class incomes for those without college educations – are conducive to a much more muscular left-wing economic platform. And when could be a better time than running against a uniquely weak general election opponent? If this is not the time to take advantage of Republican weakness, then when?

Instead, during the primary process establishment Democrats have seemed to go out of their way to alienate and reject Sanders and his passionate base. The Democratic Party’s infrastructure has been consistently hostile, epitomized by Debbie Wasserman-Schulz, the chairwoman of the Democratic National Committee and the picture of today’s corporate Democrats. David Brock, conservative-operative-turned-Clinton-diehard, has acted as an attack dog for the Clinton campaign and may very well take a position of power in a Clinton administration. Reliable Democrat mouthpieces in the media like Talking Points Memo’s Josh Marshall and the Nation’s Joan Walsh have waged war on the Sanders campaign and its voters, using their publications and social media to marginalize them. Consistent champion of Clinton Joy Ann Reid ran a sympathetic portrayal of Al Giordano, a journalist who has promised to run a campaign to unseat Sanders for supposedly dividing the party. This is remarkable both because it cannot possibly be said to contribute to the effort to defeat Trump and because Sanders holds one of the safest seats in the Senate. Capturing the Sanders enthusiasm will require getting beyond this petty grudge-keeping.

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/op-ed/article85838267.html#storylink=cpy
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CautionaryTales
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Attaburnsinhell
Jul 5 2016, 05:19 PM
CautionaryTales
Jul 5 2016, 03:24 PM
Two, just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get ya.

Boy, you're one to talk about someone else's paranoia

Two shows off his deepest fear, that Hillary may prove unelectable. Ive seen this fear in others like him on this board, manifesting itself into anger towards Sanders and his supporters. To them, Hillary blowing it will mean the end of the world and they have lashed out at fellow democrats with astonding amounts of venom, that if Hillary loses it will be all their fault!

The dem party elites are running on fear, because their day is almost over. In fact Hillary is their attempt to live in the past. She managed to win by a slim margin, mostly with older voters, while Bernie made off with the party's future, it's millenial voters.

Quote:
 
The Republicans will go through another period in the wilderness and will eventually emerge stronger and savvier, whether that happens sooner or later. Democrats cannot continue to be a party of populist rhetoric and elitist policy.

What makes this all the more frustrating, for a leftist like myself, is the very clear path forward that Democrats could take: to embrace the Sanders coalition rather than to revile it. Sanders won literally unprecedented margins among youth voters, crushing Clinton among the voters of the future. His message clearly resonated with a generation of people who have endured terrible economic conditions for their entire adult lives.

A 74-year-old socialist secular Jew didn’t massively outperform expectations by accident. The underlying economic conditions of our country – spiraling inequality, massive student loan debt, no secure middle class incomes for those without college educations – are conducive to a much more muscular left-wing economic platform. And when could be a better time than running against a uniquely weak general election opponent? If this is not the time to take advantage of Republican weakness, then when?

Instead, during the primary process establishment Democrats have seemed to go out of their way to alienate and reject Sanders and his passionate base. The Democratic Party’s infrastructure has been consistently hostile, epitomized by Debbie Wasserman-Schulz, the chairwoman of the Democratic National Committee and the picture of today’s corporate Democrats. David Brock, conservative-operative-turned-Clinton-diehard, has acted as an attack dog for the Clinton campaign and may very well take a position of power in a Clinton administration. Reliable Democrat mouthpieces in the media like Talking Points Memo’s Josh Marshall and the Nation’s Joan Walsh have waged war on the Sanders campaign and its voters, using their publications and social media to marginalize them. Consistent champion of Clinton Joy Ann Reid ran a sympathetic portrayal of Al Giordano, a journalist who has promised to run a campaign to unseat Sanders for supposedly dividing the party. This is remarkable both because it cannot possibly be said to contribute to the effort to defeat Trump and because Sanders holds one of the safest seats in the Senate. Capturing the Sanders enthusiasm will require getting beyond this petty grudge-keeping.

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/op-ed/article85838267.html#storylink=cpy
I was talking about Hillary Clinton's paranoia. You don't think she is paranoid?
You don't think they are out to get her?

Hells bells, she deserves to be paranoid. :rollseyes:


Have you paid your internet taxes?
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lucash
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#NeverTrump
Yup, it could be a pyrrhic victory for the clintonites.
"...a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is detrimental...having lost the will..to demand...good..." - Rachel Carson
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Mr. Tik
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lucash
Jul 5 2016, 05:50 PM
Yup, it could be a pyrrhic victory for the clintonites.
Or it could be wishful thinking on your part.
You may be a conservative republican..if you are pro life until you get your mistress knocked up
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lucash
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#NeverTrump
Adolph Hipster
Jul 5 2016, 05:52 PM
lucash
Jul 5 2016, 05:50 PM
Yup, it could be a pyrrhic victory for the clintonites.
Or it could be wishful thinking on your part.
Never said I wished for it; in fact, I said "it could be", that's it.

Do try again will you? :cheers: :tongue:
"...a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is detrimental...having lost the will..to demand...good..." - Rachel Carson
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Two a.m.
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lucash
Jul 5 2016, 07:28 PM
Adolph Hipster
Jul 5 2016, 05:52 PM
lucash
Jul 5 2016, 05:50 PM
Yup, it could be a pyrrhic victory for the clintonites.
Or it could be wishful thinking on your part.
Never said I wished for it; in fact, I said "it could be", that's it.

Do try again will you? :cheers: :tongue:
I suspect Mr. Hipster is correct that many in the Bernie-or-Bust movement want Hillary to lose the general election. A final I-told-you-so.
"The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them." - George Orwell, 1984
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estonianman
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The Clintons are criminals. Unethical scum of the earth.

Comey saved face today.
MEEK AND MILD
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Two a.m.
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estonianman
Jul 5 2016, 07:40 PM
The Clintons are criminals. Unethical scum of the earth.

Comey saved face today.
More importantly he saved the country.
"The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them." - George Orwell, 1984
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estonianman
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Two a.m.
Jul 5 2016, 08:05 PM
estonianman
Jul 5 2016, 07:40 PM
The Clintons are criminals. Unethical scum of the earth.

Comey saved face today.
More importantly he saved the country.
Perhaps. But he pretty much admitted that Clinton broke the law.

And rule of law is what this country is based on, regardless of the piece of flesh that leads it.
MEEK AND MILD
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lucash
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#NeverTrump
Two a.m.
Jul 5 2016, 07:32 PM
lucash
Jul 5 2016, 07:28 PM
Adolph Hipster
Jul 5 2016, 05:52 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepOr it could be wishful thinking on your part.
Never said I wished for it; in fact, I said "it could be", that's it.

Do try again will you? :cheers: :tongue:
I suspect Mr. Hipster is correct that many in the Bernie-or-Bust movement want Hillary to lose the general election. A final I-told-you-so.
Of course you would think that, because it fits your agenda. I'd advise that you go and actually talk to Sanders supporters (not merely the ones like Giz), as you would be pleasantly surprised; but, I guess that would require you to step outside what you find comfortable. :cheers:
"...a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is detrimental...having lost the will..to demand...good..." - Rachel Carson
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peewee

Two a.m.
Jul 5 2016, 03:19 PM
I'm sure many a champagne cork is popping today in ClintonLand. And rightfully so. It's a good day for the campaign.

But before everyone gets too thrilled, it is worth noting that - while the FBI's decision was the proper one - it hits at Hillary Clinton's greatest vulnerability - her Nixonian insecurity and paranoia. Like Nixon, she's smart, talented and ruthless. Unlike Nixon, I think she actually has reasonably good intentions.

But her shady side is what reminds me most of Nixon. Like him, she has never had much talent for the baby-kissing side of retail politics. Being hounded for twenty years by partisan loonies didn't help. The first bred her insecurity. The second, her secrecy. Both got her in trouble over email and both will do so again unless she puts those parts of her personality in check. They may also harm her electability. It is one of the reasons people perceive her relatively normal level of dishonesty as being somehow extreme or unprecedented.

I've slammed Hillary over this before but - just so nobody thinks I'm trying to be unfair to her here - her personality flaws, huge as they may be still pale beside those of her opponent, the Orange Lunatic.

But it bears repeating. The email thing was both very stupid on her part and very avoidable. Much like her taking all that Wall Street cash. Unlike the fake Benghazi scandal, it showed genuine deficiencies in Hillary Clinton's personality and character. Right now, the two biggest accomplishments the Clinton campaign has achieved are defeating an aging socialist who started at 3 percent in the polls and managing to not get their candidate indicted.

Call me underwhelmed.

She has inspired almost no one with a deeply boring campaign, a store-bought message and a bland, plastic public image most people find fake or repellent. She simply seems incapable of being human in front of the world.

Being better than Donald Trump may yet be enough to get her a term in the White House. But if she were running against anyone else, she'd be toast.

Rant over.
Yep, and amen. Clinton lost more credibility today. The FBI burn her and then let her go. The investigation confirmed that she lied, that she was reckless, and that she was careless. Pretty damning stuff from the FBI. Clinton is trying very hard to rebuild her trustworthiness but today was a giant step backward for that effort.
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peewee

CautionaryTales
Jul 5 2016, 05:34 PM
Attaburnsinhell
Jul 5 2016, 05:19 PM
CautionaryTales
Jul 5 2016, 03:24 PM
Two, just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get ya.

Boy, you're one to talk about someone else's paranoia

Two shows off his deepest fear, that Hillary may prove unelectable. Ive seen this fear in others like him on this board, manifesting itself into anger towards Sanders and his supporters. To them, Hillary blowing it will mean the end of the world and they have lashed out at fellow democrats with astonding amounts of venom, that if Hillary loses it will be all their fault!

The dem party elites are running on fear, because their day is almost over. In fact Hillary is their attempt to live in the past. She managed to win by a slim margin, mostly with older voters, while Bernie made off with the party's future, it's millenial voters.

Quote:
 
The Republicans will go through another period in the wilderness and will eventually emerge stronger and savvier, whether that happens sooner or later. Democrats cannot continue to be a party of populist rhetoric and elitist policy.

What makes this all the more frustrating, for a leftist like myself, is the very clear path forward that Democrats could take: to embrace the Sanders coalition rather than to revile it. Sanders won literally unprecedented margins among youth voters, crushing Clinton among the voters of the future. His message clearly resonated with a generation of people who have endured terrible economic conditions for their entire adult lives.

A 74-year-old socialist secular Jew didn’t massively outperform expectations by accident. The underlying economic conditions of our country – spiraling inequality, massive student loan debt, no secure middle class incomes for those without college educations – are conducive to a much more muscular left-wing economic platform. And when could be a better time than running against a uniquely weak general election opponent? If this is not the time to take advantage of Republican weakness, then when?

Instead, during the primary process establishment Democrats have seemed to go out of their way to alienate and reject Sanders and his passionate base. The Democratic Party’s infrastructure has been consistently hostile, epitomized by Debbie Wasserman-Schulz, the chairwoman of the Democratic National Committee and the picture of today’s corporate Democrats. David Brock, conservative-operative-turned-Clinton-diehard, has acted as an attack dog for the Clinton campaign and may very well take a position of power in a Clinton administration. Reliable Democrat mouthpieces in the media like Talking Points Memo’s Josh Marshall and the Nation’s Joan Walsh have waged war on the Sanders campaign and its voters, using their publications and social media to marginalize them. Consistent champion of Clinton Joy Ann Reid ran a sympathetic portrayal of Al Giordano, a journalist who has promised to run a campaign to unseat Sanders for supposedly dividing the party. This is remarkable both because it cannot possibly be said to contribute to the effort to defeat Trump and because Sanders holds one of the safest seats in the Senate. Capturing the Sanders enthusiasm will require getting beyond this petty grudge-keeping.

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/op-ed/article85838267.html#storylink=cpy
I was talking about Hillary Clinton's paranoia. You don't think she is paranoid?
You don't think they are out to get her?

Hells bells, she deserves to be paranoid. :rollseyes:
Nixon was paranoid and we know where that got him. Clinton cannot afford paranoia. If she shows that weakness to the voting public she will lose.
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Opinionated
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peewee
Jul 5 2016, 11:36 PM
Two a.m.
Jul 5 2016, 03:19 PM
I'm sure many a champagne cork is popping today in ClintonLand. And rightfully so. It's a good day for the campaign.

But before everyone gets too thrilled, it is worth noting that - while the FBI's decision was the proper one - it hits at Hillary Clinton's greatest vulnerability - her Nixonian insecurity and paranoia. Like Nixon, she's smart, talented and ruthless. Unlike Nixon, I think she actually has reasonably good intentions.

But her shady side is what reminds me most of Nixon. Like him, she has never had much talent for the baby-kissing side of retail politics. Being hounded for twenty years by partisan loonies didn't help. The first bred her insecurity. The second, her secrecy. Both got her in trouble over email and both will do so again unless she puts those parts of her personality in check. They may also harm her electability. It is one of the reasons people perceive her relatively normal level of dishonesty as being somehow extreme or unprecedented.

I've slammed Hillary over this before but - just so nobody thinks I'm trying to be unfair to her here - her personality flaws, huge as they may be still pale beside those of her opponent, the Orange Lunatic.

But it bears repeating. The email thing was both very stupid on her part and very avoidable. Much like her taking all that Wall Street cash. Unlike the fake Benghazi scandal, it showed genuine deficiencies in Hillary Clinton's personality and character. Right now, the two biggest accomplishments the Clinton campaign has achieved are defeating an aging socialist who started at 3 percent in the polls and managing to not get their candidate indicted.

Call me underwhelmed.

She has inspired almost no one with a deeply boring campaign, a store-bought message and a bland, plastic public image most people find fake or repellent. She simply seems incapable of being human in front of the world.

Being better than Donald Trump may yet be enough to get her a term in the White House. But if she were running against anyone else, she'd be toast.

Rant over.
Yep, and amen. Clinton lost more credibility today. The FBI burn her and then let her go. The investigation confirmed that she lied, that she was reckless, and that she was careless. Pretty damning stuff from the FBI. Clinton is trying very hard to rebuild her trustworthiness but today was a giant step backward for that effort.
While all that is true, Clinton is still running against Trump. And let's be honest, his record on honesty and integrity isn't much to brag about either.

Her chances are better than even, even with this hit.
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peewee

Opinionated
Jul 5 2016, 11:40 PM
peewee
Jul 5 2016, 11:36 PM
Two a.m.
Jul 5 2016, 03:19 PM
I'm sure many a champagne cork is popping today in ClintonLand. And rightfully so. It's a good day for the campaign.

But before everyone gets too thrilled, it is worth noting that - while the FBI's decision was the proper one - it hits at Hillary Clinton's greatest vulnerability - her Nixonian insecurity and paranoia. Like Nixon, she's smart, talented and ruthless. Unlike Nixon, I think she actually has reasonably good intentions.

But her shady side is what reminds me most of Nixon. Like him, she has never had much talent for the baby-kissing side of retail politics. Being hounded for twenty years by partisan loonies didn't help. The first bred her insecurity. The second, her secrecy. Both got her in trouble over email and both will do so again unless she puts those parts of her personality in check. They may also harm her electability. It is one of the reasons people perceive her relatively normal level of dishonesty as being somehow extreme or unprecedented.

I've slammed Hillary over this before but - just so nobody thinks I'm trying to be unfair to her here - her personality flaws, huge as they may be still pale beside those of her opponent, the Orange Lunatic.

But it bears repeating. The email thing was both very stupid on her part and very avoidable. Much like her taking all that Wall Street cash. Unlike the fake Benghazi scandal, it showed genuine deficiencies in Hillary Clinton's personality and character. Right now, the two biggest accomplishments the Clinton campaign has achieved are defeating an aging socialist who started at 3 percent in the polls and managing to not get their candidate indicted.

Call me underwhelmed.

She has inspired almost no one with a deeply boring campaign, a store-bought message and a bland, plastic public image most people find fake or repellent. She simply seems incapable of being human in front of the world.

Being better than Donald Trump may yet be enough to get her a term in the White House. But if she were running against anyone else, she'd be toast.

Rant over.
Yep, and amen. Clinton lost more credibility today. The FBI burn her and then let her go. The investigation confirmed that she lied, that she was reckless, and that she was careless. Pretty damning stuff from the FBI. Clinton is trying very hard to rebuild her trustworthiness but today was a giant step backward for that effort.
While all that is true, Clinton is still running against Trump. And let's be honest, his record on honesty and integrity isn't much to brag about either.

Her chances are better than even, even with this hit.
I have said it before that Trump has the uncanny ability to put his foot into his mouth and manage to shoot it both at the same time. If the guy had any ability to stop doing that he would crush Hillary come voting time. The polls are back and forth from week to week. Hillary, in spite of Donald, can't pull a significant lead in the polls. I think this week's events will serve to set her back.
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edro14

How many years and how many $$$$ millions have been wasted by republicans in congress on numerous bs stories they wish they could act on by in the end wind up giving their supporters nothing but butthurt?
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Two a.m.
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lucash
Jul 5 2016, 11:15 PM
Two a.m.
Jul 5 2016, 07:32 PM
lucash
Jul 5 2016, 07:28 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepOr it could be wishful thinking on your part.
I suspect Mr. Hipster is correct that many in the Bernie-or-Bust movement want Hillary to lose the general election. A final I-told-you-so.
Of course you would think that, because it fits your agenda. I'd advise that you go and actually talk to Sanders supporters (not merely the ones like Giz), as you would be pleasantly surprised; but, I guess that would require you to step outside what you find comfortable. :cheers:
I didn't say "Sanders supporters".

I talk to Sanders supporters all the time and they are perfectly nice, normal people. Most will be voting for Hillary in November in fact - same as I will.

I said people in the "Bernie-or-Bust" movement. Those people are very different than "Sanders supporters."
"The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them." - George Orwell, 1984
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Two a.m.
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estonianman
Jul 5 2016, 09:50 PM
Two a.m.
Jul 5 2016, 08:05 PM
estonianman
Jul 5 2016, 07:40 PM
The Clintons are criminals. Unethical scum of the earth.

Comey saved face today.
More importantly he saved the country.
Perhaps. But he pretty much admitted that Clinton broke the law.

And rule of law is what this country is based on, regardless of the piece of flesh that leads it.
Here's the two paragraphs that are key to what he said:

"Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past.

In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here."

In short, rule of law doesn't mean that prosecutors always prosecute every possible offense to the fullest extent of the law. That's true of any good prosecutor even when deciding on the simplest public intoxication or disorderly conduct case at the county or municipal level. In short, the intent wasn't malicious, the evidence wasn't strong enough and the precedents of previous cases didn't support a prosecution.
Edited by Two a.m., Jul 6 2016, 12:28 AM.
"The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them." - George Orwell, 1984
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lucash
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#NeverTrump
Two a.m.
Jul 6 2016, 12:19 AM
lucash
Jul 5 2016, 11:15 PM
Two a.m.
Jul 5 2016, 07:32 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepOr it could be wishful thinking on your part.
Of course you would think that, because it fits your agenda. I'd advise that you go and actually talk to Sanders supporters (not merely the ones like Giz), as you would be pleasantly surprised; but, I guess that would require you to step outside what you find comfortable. :cheers:
I didn't say "Sanders supporters".

I talk to Sanders supporters all the time and they are perfectly nice, normal people. Most will be voting for Hillary in November in fact - same as I will.

I said people in the "Bernie-or-Bust" movement. Those people are very different than "Sanders supporters."
Oh good, so you finally differentiate. Damn, I had thought that would require divine intervention to happen.
"...a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is detrimental...having lost the will..to demand...good..." - Rachel Carson
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CautionaryTales
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peewee
Jul 5 2016, 11:38 PM
CautionaryTales
Jul 5 2016, 05:34 PM
Attaburnsinhell
Jul 5 2016, 05:19 PM
I was talking about Hillary Clinton's paranoia. You don't think she is paranoid?
You don't think they are out to get her?

Hells bells, she deserves to be paranoid. :rollseyes:
Nixon was paranoid and we know where that got him. Clinton cannot afford paranoia. If she shows that weakness to the voting public she will lose.
In her case she is right that there is a concerted effort to find something, anything, that would hurt her politically.
This is undeniably true. It's been true for twenty five years.
It isn't going to change and it isn't going away.

Her perceived paranoia is accurate. It has made her go to some extremes to protect herself. She has every right to be defensive.



Have you paid your internet taxes?
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lucash
Jul 6 2016, 01:28 AM
Two a.m.
Jul 6 2016, 12:19 AM
lucash
Jul 5 2016, 11:15 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepOr it could be wishful thinking on your part.
I didn't say "Sanders supporters".

I talk to Sanders supporters all the time and they are perfectly nice, normal people. Most will be voting for Hillary in November in fact - same as I will.

I said people in the "Bernie-or-Bust" movement. Those people are very different than "Sanders supporters."
Oh good, so you finally differentiate. Damn, I had thought that would require divine intervention to happen.
Or reading his posts without prejudice, which you seem pretty bad at.

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